CooperNWO305

I got a quick response back from McCrone about possibly seeing data from other tests to see how elements/particles are reported. Below is what I got. I think the latest look at the particles is assuming that a line of data (1 of 106,000 lines) shows alloys. For instance, if it was NaCl then it would be salt. However, I'm of the opinion (Flyjack it seems too) that the NaCl could just mean that the stub picked up Sodium and Chloride and not that they were together forming table salt. Now, if a microscope actually identified a particle that was an alloy, then we can assume that is accurate. However, we do not know if that particle has an exact corresponding line in the data. Tom Kaye responded a while back on Facebook that those lines do not mean that they are alloys, just that they were found together. Someone with a science background could help here. I searched for Scanning Electron Microscope data output and got a few hits. One read out looked just like the McCrone one in terms of format and column headers. I was hoping to find one that explained what an alloy would look like on the readout, versus something that was maybe plated with another element, or just found next to each other. On the Citizen Sleuths site they do say "This data is complicated to look at. Please do not email asking how to interpret it." Response from McCrone. Client confidentiality is paramount to our business. Our reports are the intellectual property of our clients. You will have to acquire the information from the original client. With highest regards, Craig

Can we get the moderators to treat Slim King the same way as they did Blevins? This is becoming a spam issue.

I saw on the Cooper Forum some discussion about the aft stairs. It got me thinking. There has been some discussion on whether Cooper said to have the stairs lowered in flight or lowered for takeoff. But what I don't remember anyone talking about is whether Cooper said to "lock" the stairs. A plane taking off with stairs lowered could be very different than taking off with the stairs locked. My opinion is that Cooper learned about the 727 but was not on the secret flights in Vietnam nor was he a top secret engineer during the test phase.

I'll have to chat with Tom again. He did say to me that they did not find steel. The question I may ask is what is the difference between a particle and an element. We have roughly 106,000 rows of data, are there 106,000 corresponding particles? What element is this below, have they tied this line to a particle? Is there a particle made up of these? Does it have a name? There are 106,000 rows of these. If a stub has a series of elements, does it mean that makes a particle, or could there be multiple particles mixed in? Let's say Cooper wipes a few elements on his tie, then a few days later wipes some other elements on his tie, then years later one stub hits both those sets of incidents. What do we call that? O 7.66702 MG 2.303652 AL 15.0484 SI 13.5198 S 1.184901 K 2.816026 CA 35.1904 FE 7.942541 AU 21.99428 Some commentary. Almost every major element known to man was found on that tie, so to me that doesn't rule out too many industrial activities. There are hardly any samples to compare these to. I know Tom is working on a few. I've found some similar looking data just doing we searches, but it will take me a while to find more. I sent another note to McCrone to see if they will talk. Doubtful they will. I think the tie was Cooper's or was from someone close to him or his industry. To the point above, if he did not try to hide is appearance, then why worry about something so minor as a tie? But, he did seem to not want to give much information to Tina during the hours they chatted. The tie is like the money. It is one of the only pieces of hard evidence we have, so many of us continue to dig into it and try to make conclusions. If Cooper did buy the tie at a thrift store, then we've gone on a wild goose chase. I can see how people say that ties don't end up in thrift stores. Maybe, maybe not. But I've donated ties before. Does someone grow out of a suit or decide it is out fashion and just donate the suit and throw away the tie? Doubtful. The guaranteed piece of info is that Cooper's DNA was on that tie at some point. He touched it to put it on, touched it to take it off, his neck rubbed up against it. The technology we have today may not be able to find his DNA and isolate it, but that technology can't be that far off.

They did find stainless steel. That is not that uncommon.

Interesting thought, that very well could have been a pin that identified him, a company, religious organization, veterans organization, etc. You'd think he would take the tie bar off too though, but without any logo, maybe he decides its ok to leave it. On the tie, I'm not convinced that the particles were all that special. I'd still like to see some more samples tested from other clothing. Steel is pretty common and every element in steel was found on that tie.: "Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon, and sometimes other elements. While iron alloyed with carbon is called carbon steel, alloy steel is steel to which other alloying elements have been intentionally added to modify the characteristics of steel. Common alloying elements include: manganese, nickel, chromium, molybdenum, boron, titanium, vanadium, tungsten, cobalt, and niobium. Additional elements, most frequently considered undesirable, are also important in steel: phosphorus, sulfur, silicon, and traces of oxygen, nitrogen, and copper.”

I missed that one. Back in 1971?

I'm gonna guess that Max Gunther did not take the steps to do any FOIA's. He clearly got some info wrong in his book that was readily available in articles, but he has enough info in there that tells me he read some articles. I've read a good amount of his material (books, magazine articles) and I just don't find him to be a guy who digs too deep into details. That served him well when writing his books and articles in that he could make things up or weave together stories with minimal info. I suspect he got a little bit of info from "Clara" and then had to go the rest of his way on his own.

Yea, given what I've read, it seems he did not have boots on. However, landing hard in calf high boots versus ankle high shoes is very different. Cooper was a very lucky man if he landed in ankle high loafers and did not twist an ankle or worse.

Any chance Cooper was wearing Corcoran jump boots on that plane? Those boots do differ on the toe from regular military field boots. My Newspapers.com membership lapsed, but someone could probably search Elisnore, DB Cooper and see if maybe there was a news article about it that Gunther may have seen. The trouble with Newspapers.com is that it does not have all the newspapers.

Gunther says the skydive center was near Los Angeles. We have an author from the East Coast (3,000 miles away), a hijacking in Portland, Oregon (1,000 miles from Elsinore), yet he choses Los Angeles as the location his character visited. It's possible the FBI sent him the exact Elsinore documents. How likely is that given the mass amount of documents? I wonder if there is a history of FOIA requests by date and individual requesting.

It's possible it was made up. Whether true or false, I wonder how Gunther got it into his book. The scenarios I can see are: 1. He really did talk to the real Cooper. 2. He went to LA on a trip (he was a traveler) and went to Elsinore. Makes sense that an author researching a book would go to a skydive center. But Gunther was from Connecticut. 3. Gunther had an inside source in the FBI or law enforcement. The excerpt in Gunther's book is pretty detailed.

The FBI has made it clear that Composite B is the best sketch. Even if you don't want to go with that, you can take Composite A. No one gives any credibility to the initial sketch you are referring to. You're trying to plug Reca and it is getting old and hampering real discussion on this site, so I'm not wasting my time on this. Good luck. For anyone else, this is the media company that published one of the main Reca books. Words like faith, prayer, etc. are used. Not science. The fact is that there are liars in the world, and Reca is probably one of those, Weber too, Gossett, etc. They can't all be Cooper, so someone is lying. https://principiamedia.com/shop/

Reca is an example of a suspect who was basically slipped by the researchers. That team went straight to the press and tried to get a foothold. That story fell apart very quickly under minimal scrutiny. Any white male aged 35-55 could have been made up to be Cooper given Reca's public relations team. The book was also published by borderline religious zealots in my mind, people who may have a history of taking things on faith and not looking at facts. I'm ok with that in a spiritual sense, but this is not church. Reca was clearly a storyteller, who barely fits the age range, and looks nothing at all like any Cooper description.

I'll have to look at it when I get to another computer. The site may be blocking my location. I found some other posts about this site and it looks like there is some detail on bills and how long they stayed in one area. I suspect that in 1972 or so if Cooper spent a bunch of his $20s in one spot, that a lot of those $20s would have circulated locally for a bit, maybe weeks, maybe months, etc. Therefore if the FBI had gone to major cities and collected up San Francisco Federal Reserve bills of 1963A and 1969 series, that they would have found a $20, and if not, been able to say with a good amount of probability that Cooper did not spend the $. Obviously this is all in hindsight.

Did Cooper spend the money is always a topic of discussion. I was thinking this morning as to what benefit it would be if the FBI found a $20 in circulation. We know from the Tena Bar money find that there was some value for discussion in finding the money. But what if a bill was found in circulation? That led me to think about how far money travels from where it is spent. I came across this website https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where's_George%3F, which for some reason I can't access from my current location. It is more curiosity, but I was wondering if a $20 was issues by the San Francisco Federal Reserve, would it be put into circulation in San Francisco, or put into circulation in many spots? And, if someone spent a $20 in Portland, how long would it take to get to New York City? What would the FBI have been able to deduce if they found a $20 in circulation in 1971 versus 1981, etc? If someone spent a bunch of San Francisco $20s in say Texas, would that have raised more of a flag than say spending those in San Francisco?

Looks like someone who might be able to tell the difference between a 28 year old man and a 45 year old one.

If you're interested in Recca, then by all means have at it. But if you're interested in the case as a whole, there is not enough time in the day to go down the Recca rabbit hole and research the many other aspects of the case.

Which user is Carr on that Reddit post? I did not realize he had posted there.

I don't know of anyone on this case who has done more research on the bills than Flyjack. I have not kept track of every entry, but his process is sound. If someone is interested in getting background on the bills, I'd recommend reading his entries here on the DZ.

Flo mentions him putting on the parachute. Did she hear this from Tina or see it? Skyjack does not mention him being good with the harness. Maybe Bruce’s book does. Martin’s book and podcast mention him being good with a harness. Skilled.

I was just reading her testimony in Martin’s book and did not see mention of him putting the chute on, but I knew I had read it somewhere. Thanks for posting.

Let's say these sightings were of Cooper. Would it indicate he jumped further north, or was blown further north, or that he decided to walk north?