Dogmatix

I've been offered to buy a Sife rig, but I have no one around me who use this brand. When I ask they mostly tell me at they stick to the well known brands like Javelin or Vector and that there's a reason I can get a Sife rig cheaper.

Do they produce good quality or should I stay away from Sife?

10 hours ago, mr2mk1g said:

I've joked for a long time that we should crowd source funding within the skydiving community for an AFF course for someone like Dyson so that they can come up with a packing machine. Sad fact is that they are rich enough to just pay packers.

Imagine that. You get back from your jump, dock your rig, walk the lines and give it a good shake. Then press the button and the lines start pulling into the rig like a vacuum cord and packing the cute where it belongs. 

*duck and cover*

1 hour ago, RiggerLee said:

He actually has asked some legitimate questions. He's a newbe and has discovered that packing sucks. He will in time get better at it. The question of is their a better way is perfectly valid. 

 

He's asked if there is a better way to make stows. He has asked if you could build one that can be tightened after the stow is made. It's a perfectly good idea and strong in fact did this and still does on their tandem reserves. The idea had it's own problems and never spread. If he or any one else wanted to play with it any rigger could add the little bungee holders to your bag. 

 

He asked if stowless bags were better. Valid question. People are making and jumping them. There are real advantages to them but I see problems as well. I say the jury is still out.

 

He asked if you could close the container losely and then post tighten it. We do that with the loop on some reserves. It can be made to work but we have also seen issues with it. I've never seen it on a main. I can't think of any modern equivalent of a pack opening band but we could use a strap running to say a buckle under the back pad to do some thing like that. I actually did some thing like that with compression straps on a back pack/base rig kind of thing. It was a monstrosity but it did work I jumped it on trips. Honestly if we really wanted to make packing easier all we would have to do is become a little more rational about how we size rigs. 

 

He hasn't come up with any thing new or revolutionary... yet. I keep waiting for some gem to fall out of his mouth that will revolutionize  the world. It could happen. Monkies might reproduce Shakespear. It might take longer then the heat death of the universe, but it might happen tomorrow. You'll never know what will stick and you wont find out unless you throw it against the wall. 

Thanks, it's really not more complicated than this. Can't believe it resolves to me complaining and not respecting more experienced jumpers. It's a very general question and I throw out something to get the discussion started. I very much identify myself as a monkey that might get lucky, it actually happens once in a while that people mistake me for being smart.

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Now you are just showing off your frustration at needing to learn. Have you considered that before you enter a forum whose members are nearly all experienced and start going on about how we are all obviously wasting our time because you believe there MUST be a better way, you should learn to what the hell you are talking about? It does not take ten years. It takes determination and willingness to learn. People regularly become paid professional packers in less than a month. If you think stowless bags make a significant difference in packing effort it merely shows that you have yet to learn much about packing. Learn first, innovate later. The wheels on our carts are not square, and you have not contributed anything of value, much less round wheels.

Ok, so this discussion is heading somewhere else than what it was intended for. I basically wanted to know what is out there, if there are different options and something to think about when buying a gear, so I know what to buy and not buy. If newer rigs maybe offer new innovations etc and if there are any experimental inovations out there that people use, that you think will become standard later.

Yes, 10 years is ofc a ridiculous claim, I just used the example in the quote and used the same exaggeration. 

6 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Ok, so you've gone from 'I'm an engineer, is there a better way to pack?' to 'It's too hard, there has to be an easier way.'

No, I've not gone from anything to something else, read the posts again. I have an engineer degree if that's what you focus on and the motivation has been clear from the beginning, if anything can be made simpler, easier and faster with same quality. A better way is a subjective notation and it has been clear what it involves.

9 hours ago, faulknerwn said:

Were you great at soccer the first 5 times you played?  Or did you have to play for 10 years to get half way decent?  Packing is like skydiving or anything else - it takes practice.  I would bet you could watch an experienced packer pack that rig in 5 minutes.  Learn the techniques.

 

I think that's a good summary. Sure, I see experienced people everywhere getting it together fast but I would want parachute packing to be as easy so you don't have to do it for 10 years to get half decent at it. 

I don't say my ideas were good, it was just something I came up with while writing. But I do think packing seems like a lot of hard work and there should be room to make it easier. I also think it makes sense to listen to the beginners, as in all fields. When you get someone loking at it in a fresh way, you may discover things that you've just gotten used to. Packing is a big procedure, a lot of steps, pulling and twisting. Maybe the current way really is the best, or there are improvements to be made.

Ideally I would wish for a parachute that is easy to pack in 2 ways.

Firstly, so it's very hard to do it wrong. Everything is marked up and just doesn't fit any other way than what's correct and natuarally falls in place. Like when you think when designing a video game, you shouldn't need instructions and you should get it within the first seconds.

Secondly, that it's easy and fast. As discussed with folding the parachute, getting it into the bag, getting the rubber bands on and closing the main loop etc. It's a lot of work for that 1 minute free fall.

I think one reason why things are like they've always been is because your life kind of depends on it. It takes some balls to make new innovations. I mean, we've only thought in terms of how to improve the current way of packing, how to make stowing easier etc. There might be far more bold solutions. It would be interesting to put a company like Apple on the task to design a new parachute and rig, and see what they come up with.

The purpose of the thread was basically that I wanted to get a feel if there were different systems and if I should look out for something when buying a rig. I've only seen the student rigs and have no idea if the real deal might come with tons of improvements that they've excluded for cost or other reasons on the student rigs. Like stoweless bag, no one has mentioned this, I only found it by googling.

7 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Another thing to remember is that a pack job doesn't have to be perfect. Early on, I had a rigger explain to me that packing was 80% psychological. Lines straight & to the inside, fabric to the outside. Slider to the stops & quartered. Everything arranged so that it comes out in sequence and sort of smoothly. Locking stows solid. Most of the rest is to make you feel better (some of it has an effect on 'quality' of opening). 

That's something I thought about as well. As long as you don't roll it up in some strange way, have it inside out etc, then there should be a fair chance for the wind to catch it and deploy propery if the lines are straight. The pilote chute will pull it out and it's designed to catch the air in one way.

How nice with all the positivity in here. The attitude I've been meeting while learning is more "don't try to be smart", and to just comply with some of the strange things. I some what understand why they have this mentality, when you're falling with a high speed malfunction it's probably best to just stick to the program. But there is also some parts where you just think there is a million right ways to handle some things, but it's important to not question and just do as they say if you want to pass. They told me they had some students cutting away because the slider had a different color than in the pictures etc, so they probably have to deal with a lot of that if they allow too much free thinking.

Regarding the packing, one thing I thought about immidiately was the rubber bands. They're very tight, best way is probably to get your entire hand in there, grabbing the lines and get them through. Sometimes you have to double it up and when you're done the lines don't look as pretty as before you jammed them through and you've spend quite some energy getting them there. This constant stretching of the bands also stress them so they break frequently. I don't see why there can't be a construction where you easily get the lines inside the rubber bands, and then add the tension. Think like when you put on a clock with a metal strap, you have one part that is easily expandable and when you got it on you tighten it. It doesn't have to be remotely as advanced on a rubber band, just some way to add some optional slack, and they would hold longer since you don't stretch them more than you have to. When the slack is closed it could be identical properties of a rubber band.

But then again, we already have stove less bags, don't understand why this isn't a revolution. I saw one basejump packing where they stoved the lines in the canopy and some magnetic flap to hide it, seemed very smart and neat.

The closing loop also seems like a lot of hazzle for what it achieves. I understand you want a single point of release and opening the rig when you pull the pilot chute. The reason you need to struggle, pull, put your knee on it, get it through next flap etc is same as why you need to struggle to get the canopy inside the bag. You have something that is too big to fit unless you struggle. If there was a way where the flaps had more slack you could easily get the string through the flaps and add the pin, and then add the tension. I think of it like getting your foot inside a ski boot. Current way seems like you try to jam the foot in when it's closed. If it's open you can get your foot in easy and then close it.

It just seems like there is so much force used, when there should be easy routes around it. It might be good to think about these things when you're new. When you get used to it, you just figure it's as it always have been and you manage. But it's very stressfull to pack a parachute when you're new. You want to get everything right and you look at the lines and don't feel confident regardless how they look. If you wouldn't have to struggle and force everything, you could pay more focus on the details.

Being an engineer and just having finished my A certificate and packing course, I was surprised about how primitive I found the packing procedure. 

I don't know if it's maybe the student rigs that are harder to handle, or maybe bad technique from me. But it was quite a workout getting the rubber rands around the lines and jamming the parachute into the bag. Not only a workout, but also a safety issue when you as a student are so happy getting it together that you're not very keen to get it out of the bag if you see it doesn't sit in the perfect orientation. Or if there's a rubber band you'd like to redo, but it would mean redoing them all.

Are there really no better innovations and standards coming for this? I've seen some stoveless bags on YouTube, but never saw anyone at the drop zone having one. Is rubber bands really the best candidate to arrange the lines, isn't there something that's easier to handle? Why is the bag half the size it should be to fit the canopy easy? It could at least be expandable while getting it in.

What's your thoughts on this, is it just to suck it up and get used to it, or is there hope for easier packing procedures?