Westerly

Just now, SkyDekker said:

Oh and you think because you found a few reports of this happening at one pharmacy, that means it happens at all vaccine facilities.

 

Brilliant.

More like I found hundreds of reports of them happening in dozens of states. You'd know that if you actually bothered to read them.

Just now, SkyDekker said:

 

Another issue with your logic. If you throw out 1 dose every day, you can comfortably state you are throwing out vaccine frequently. If you administer 100,000 doses every day the spillage is almost nonexistent, even if you are throwing vaccine out frequently.

 

Name any pharmacy that gives out 100k does a day. That is ridiculous. Most pharmacies do like 100 a day. So yea, when like a dozen or more doses end up in the trash in a day where only 100 were administered, that is not insignificant. 

4 minutes ago, nwt said:

For the 3rd time, that's 4 doses that weren't wasted...

Yes, but you fail to understand that those exact examples made it into people's arms ONLY because someone showed up at the last possible second to claim them. Vaccinations that were, with absolute certainty, going to be thrown away. In most cases, pharmacies dont have people camping out all day just waiting to catch unused doses, and they do in fact end up trashed exactly like the 5000 articles I posed demonstrate. 

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

You are concerned vaccines are getting thrown out because you know 4 people who got a vaccine that wasn't thrown out.

Brilliant.

 The argument is and has been from the beginning, 'vaccinations are rarely thrown away'. They are thrown away frequently as I have cited and referenced several times, with thousands of confirmed doses ending up in the trash.

1 minute ago, headoverheels said:

  Of concern, but not that significant.

Significant enough that I personally know four people who got their vaccination through that loophole. How many people do you think I know? 50,000?

You guys have an interesting view on the world. The vaccination roll out is going perfect. No vaccinations are ever discarded. Everyone who needs a vaccination will get one. EV cars are the savior of mankind and everyone who works at McDonalds making $9 an hour should buy a Tesla to save their future. What's next? I am excited to hear the next argument.

Just now, nwt said:

According to what reference?

All the ones I just posted if you bothered to read them.

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

 

Google voter fraud and compare. Your reasoning is laughable.

Except the difference is claims of voter fraud are among laughable sources with no credit.

Just now, nwt said:

 

 

Again, this is the solution that discredits the point you're trying to make.

It dosent because most people are not going to pharmacies and just hanging out all day for multiple days in hopes of getting a discarded vaccination shot. In most cases the shots to be discarded are just discarded and they are not given to anyone. That is not a solution. The solution is they need to be administered, even if it's to an 18 year old Olympic athlete. Someone is better than no one.

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Do you understand the difference between "never" and "almost nonexistent"?

Yea, they are basically the same thing in this context. I said it is happening, he said it is not, and I was correct and he was incorrect. Stop changing the subject. Something that is 'almost nonexistent' would not yield countless articles of occurance in a lackadaisical 60 second google search, nor would it yield me personally knowing 4 people who got the vaccination for that exact reason. It's happening fairly frequently.

2 minutes ago, nwt said:

Who said that? Can you quote?

1 hour ago, billvon said:

 

The problem that Westerly was alluding to, where vaccination centers have doses available and just don't want to, or are unwilling to, administer them (or schedule vaccinations) is almost nonexistent as far as I can tell.

1 minute ago, nwt said:

That article is 2 weeks old--practically an eternity these days.

And guess what? You've actually just stumbled upon the solution to the problem you were complaining about. So we're done here?

Irrelevant. The claim was 'throwing vaccinations in the trash never happens'. I just posted like 50 stories that took me 60 seconds to find saying it happens all the time. Dont change the subject.

Here is your source. if you dident find any sources, it was because you dident look...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/health/covid-19-vaccine-unused/index.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-covid-19-vaccines-wind-garbage-because-fed-state-guidelines-n1254364

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/10/nyregion/new-york-vaccine-guidelines.html

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/maricopa-county-had-to-throw-away-more-than-500-doses-of-covid-19-vaccine/article_7cdf6c5e-6577-11eb-a136-cf731ccb8231.html

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/1100-doses-of-the-covid-19-vaccine-thrown-away-statewide/275-daba61ea-c657-4d4f-85c9-5ae2722b4a3e

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-tells-health-care-providers-not-to-throw-away-unused-covid-19-vaccine-doses/

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/walgreens-confirms-it-had-to-throw-out-vials-of-unused-vials-of-covid-19-vaccine/530-5aeda34d-400d-42af-9598-3f91de5f3977





Also, how exactly do you think people under 60 who are not front line workers are getting the vaccination? I know four people who are under 35 with no health conditions who got it. They got it because they show up at the end of the day to random pharmacies and hope they have left over doses that are going to be discarded. They found it was not that hard to get when I asked them about it.

3 minutes ago, nwt said:

Yes. The official recommendations were to not gather for these holidays. It's impossible to enforce, though.

Recommendations are a waste of time. The type of people who truly need to read recommendations are also the exact type of people who have no interest in reading them. That's why we make things like seatbelt use compulsory. Look how well CDC recommendations have worked out for us so far...

Just now, nwt said:

Are you advocating for something or just complaining?

I'd advocating for creating a plan, which we still dont really have. When pharmacies are throwing vaccines away but somehow also not accepting appointments at the same time because they are 'fully booked' that tells me there is a disconnect and the end result is vaccination waste.

6 hours ago, kallend said:

SuperSpreader Sunday coming up.

 

 Two separate surveys — one by Seton Hall University and one by the National Retail Federation — found that nearly 30 percent of adults said they would attend a gathering at someone’s home or watch the game at a restaurant or a bar.

So according to the graph maybe the best defense against Covid at this point is to terminate all federal holidays? They seem to be the equivalent of pouring a shipping container of gas on a forest fire, so suspending them entirely may be in the best interest of all.

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

best bet is to go full speed with vaccinating everyone we can with the vaccine we have.

Yep, but that is not happening. There are many places that are still throwing doses away for one reason or another and others that are holding too many in reserve. Overall, there has not been much coordination. It's all just do it however you want and figure things out as you go. No plan jam.

9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Then there are those who share rent with roommates. The fact you can only think of people renting entire apartments or houses for themselves is telling.

I am well aware of what a roommate is. I also know that even renting a room is at least $500 a month pretty much just about everywhere.

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

 But they are still our brothers and sisters. 

Yea, I wonder people died from the actions of martin shkreli when he raised the price of drugs 1000x so no one could afford them anymore? Nice to know you care so much about people who care so little about you. You'd make a great union rep.
 

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

No, it doesn't say that at all.  It does NOT work "correctly" when you use it "correctly."   It will not protect you from COVID-19 100% even if you follow the dosing to the letter.  The best you can do is express the odds of infection after one or two doses.  And per the company that protection is 80.2% protection after one dose, 95.6% after the second.  And independent research has verified that.

Remember back when you were saying that the unapproved vaccine should be released immediately without waiting for approval?  "It should be released immediately. Every day they are screwing around trying to make 'sure, super sure sure' that it's effective and safe is another day thousands die. Sometimes you just have to call it good enough and move forward."

Funny.

Yes, I do remember that and as I said then, I was right. The vaccines turned out to be safe and effective, exactly as I predicted. If we would have started this months ago we would have saved countless lives already.

However, it's not relevant to this discussion. I understand the vaccination is not 100% perfect. I never said it was. However, at 95% effective that's more than good enough. At that point your chances of getting covid are less than that of the flu and if you do get it there is very little chance you'll die. Most likely it will be mild. So that's good enough I'd say.

2 hours ago, billvon said:

For them it will mean another few months of rent.

Name ONE place anywhere in America where $1000 gets you 'a few months of rent'. Unless you're talking about a campsite. Where I live, the average rent is $1000 every two weeks, and that's not for a 4-bedroom house with a view either....

2 hours ago, billvon said:

 

I think I will stick with the science.

Yea, and the science says it works correctly when you use it correctly, not when you use it incorrectly. If you're a man of science I would expect you're a man of doing things correctly--which is taking two doses, not one.

5 hours ago, headoverheels said:

As important is the fact that pretty much zero people die from Covid that have had one shot (plus a few weeks), and few are hospitalized.  They still may get sick, but not as sick. 

7 hours ago, billvon said:

 

2) There is quite a bit of evidence that getting one dose significantly increases your immunity.

The manufacturer of the drug--the literal CEO of Moderna--argues otherwise. In the exact words of the people who actually made the vaccination:

The first dose may provide some protection, but as the Moderna CEO, Stephane Bancel said Monday "but we really just don't have any data to prove that at this point."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/02/health/covid-19-vaccine-why-people-still-test-positive/index.html

5 hours ago, billvon said:

At 80% charge, and at an exterior temperature of -25C, a Tesla could keep the interior warm for 4 days before running out of power.

How long can your vehicle idle?

About the same. 3.75 days with a 13.5 gallon tank on a 2.0L engine. Your massive rager for EV cars is pretty funny. EV is not the future. Less than 0.25% of cars out there are EV and EV cars have existed since the 90s. They are not new by any means. Also, there are many, many areas where there are absolutely zero charging stations for distances that exceed the maximum charge capacity of any EV vehicle. Try driving through a rural area anywhere in any state. It can be hard enough to find gas stations let alone EV charging.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/autos/sc-auto-motormouth-0308-story.html

12 minutes ago, nwt said:

 

Yes. Did I stutter?

No, your brain just isint working. Putting nemesis to society over those who protect society sounds logical only to the illogical. But hey, if they ever make a prisoners' union, at least we know who to call now.