kryos

I can even top that. At Cross Keys once ... I got on an Otter with just me, my instructor, and a video dude. It was sure a quick ride to altitude. :) Now I guess I should explain ... It was getting near sunset and we had three slots reserved for my student jump. A sunset load was forming and a few more people wanted on, but there was no room for them. Since they weren't yet ready to go, the dzo filled our three slots on what would have been that load, and told my instructor to haul ass. We had already practiced the dive and everything for quite a while. The Otter pilot rushed us up and got back down for the sunset load. Everybody was a happy customer that day. :) I even passed my jump. :) Blue skies ... --rita

Turtletop, My heart goes out to your sister as well. In fact, when you next speak with her, tell her to email me at [email protected] -- we probably have a lot in common. I too was a skydiver, and I too was badly injured back in 1999. Today I am the proud owner of a lot of titanium hardware in both of my legs, and I no longer skydive regularly (just the occasional tandem). My life has taken on a lot of interesting turns since my skydiving days just as your sister's will. If she'd like to talk, I'd be more than happy to offer her all the encouragement and comradship as I can. I also have a book she might enjoy reading ... that might make her laugh, just a bit. Blue skies ... --rita

Well, I won't say how many I actually failed ... but it took me a total of 44 jumps (some AFF, some S/L and some tandem) to get signed off student status. :) Let's just say I was having waaaayyyyy to much fun in my student progression. I didn't want to see it end. :) Blue skies ... --rita

LOL ... that's a joke. I jumped at one place in particular ... a tandem ... where I was specifically told by the manifester what the "appropriate" tip amount would be for both my TM and the video guy. I personally don't have a big problem with tipping tandem instructors. Most of the people who come out to do a tandem never return. In many cases, as well, the tandem jump is not any sort of training jump anymore. Rather it's a joyride. So you tip the ride operator ... and the guy who takes the pictures and makes you look good. That's okay by me. But I have a real problem with tipping an instructor of any type ... no matter how good he is ... until I am done with the instructional course. To me, tipping an AFF instructor would be akin to an attempted bribe. "Please don't fail me even though I sucked on that level ... here's an extra $50 to make your sign off worthwhile." No, I'd rather he fail me if I sucked ... even though the cost will actually be far more than the tip. At the end of the ENTIRE course, then perhaps I'll show up at the dz, rolling a handtruck ... loaded down with cases of beer. Perhaps at that time, I'll throw a bit of cash around ... but not before. It's just the way I believe. You can certainly call me cheap if you want. Blue skies ... --rita

Okay, then what do you call the typical tandem waiver? Is that not a contract the adherent has no choice but to sign if he wants to jump? I agree ... many states will honor the waiver simply because unlike the subject of many adhesion contracts, skydiving is not a product or service that the adherent MUST have. If he signs the contract and gives up his right to sue, he is seen as doing that willingly ... unlike your hypothetical gunshot victim who desperately needs medical treatment and thus signs the contract to ease his physical pain and discomfort. However, still ... most dz's will add that other clause to their tandem waivers ... regarding the $500 payment in order to keep your right to sue. Of course, it's actually a load of crap since anyone opting to retain that right by paying the $500 probably wouldn't be allowed to jump anyway. Blue skies ... --rita

We had a situation down here "Philly way" a couple of years ago. An amusement park ride ... something went wrong ... not seriously, but some kids got banged up a bit ... bruises ... that sort of thing. I think one kid broke a thumb or something like that. Anyway, the paramedics were called, the ride was shut down, and everyone was being properly attended to. They estimated that about eight kids were on the ride. Guess what? Next thing the paramedics know, there are something like 20 kids laying on the ground moaning. Where did those other ten to twelve come from? Their parents sent them over obviously ... so that they could make a quick buck. Even if everyone ... from the paramedics to the ride operators know they are full of crap ... even if the insurance company gives them "meager" nuisance settlements ... that will still equate to a couple of thousand bucks ... easily ... per child. Just like the one paramedic said on the news that night ... "what can we do? We have to treat everyone seriously ... because you just never know ... but there was no way all these kids were on that ride ... the ride simply wouldn't hold that many." I still say ... blame your legislators and no one else. If the laws were changed, there wouldn't be the money in lawsuits that must be there to keep the personal injury attorneys; i.e., vultures, circling when something like this happens. I could well understand a law suit that is justified. A machine operator loses his arm at work because his employer was too cheap to have some simple safety devices installed on that machine he was operating ... or a woman who is run over and permanently disabled because of some drunk who decided he was perfectly capable of operating his motor vehicle in that impaired condition ... but some of these law suits that I see and hear about are nothing short of funny. You go skydiving and are injured ... and now you want to sue? Give me a break. For what it's worth ... and since getting my own legal education I've found out that this is against every single professional responsibility ethic on the books ... but after my accident at Deland in 1999 ... as I lay in the hospital in Orlando ... I had no less than three attorneys contact me by phone ... as well as one who "happened to be in the neighborhood and figured he would stop by to see if he could be of any service" to talk up the idea of a law suit against Deland with me. They were shocked when I told each and every one that my accident was just that ... an accident ... caused by my own incompetence ... and nothing whatsoever that Deland could have prevented. They were all absolutely floored by that response ... probably because it's one they had never in their lives heard before. Sad, huh? Blue skies ... --rita

that is still in play at some DZs. If any dz wants their waiver to hold up in court, that offer had better be standard on all the waivers at any dz. Otherwise, the entire waiver would be thrown out of court as a "contract of adhesion" ... i.e., the person only waived his right to sue because he had to in order to be permitted to make the jump. By offering this "out" with the $500, the dz can show that the customer did have a choice, and merely opted to waive his right to sue. Of course, this strategy works very well. Few people are likely to demand to retain the right to sue and willingly pay $500 for the privilege of that retention. Of course, they check "no" next to that line on the waiver and thus "voluntarily" relinquish that right. Since they had a choice, the contract is not one of adhesion and the waiver holds up in court. Like I said in the other post, though ... wonder what would happen if someone opted to retain their right to sue by paying the extra $500? Wonder if the dz would take their money and allow them to make the jump? Any dzo's out there willing to comment? Blue skies ... --rita

There is an option on the waiver forms ... so that they will not be considered a "contract of adhesion" ... where you can voluntarily pay an extra $500 and then retain your right to sue in the event something goes wrong. Of course, most people just check "no" next to that little box. Who the hell is gonna pay close to $700 bucks just to make a tandem? But, the option is there if the right to sue was that important to these people. Of course, I can only wonder how the drop zone would respond if a potential tandem student did check the "yes" in that box and hand over the extra $500. Wonder if the drop zone would decline to accept their money in that situation and refuse to allow them to jump. That would be an interesting situation. Blue skies ... --rita

She knew ... but did her family know? I know this type of situation stinks ... but think about it from the standpoint of an unknowledgeable family member. Your beloved daughter went out to the drop zone to do something exciting ... something all her friends had told her would be an awesome experience. She was not a hardcore skydiver ... probably never had any desire to make a "career" out of this ... just wanted a day's fun ... the same kind of fun (at least in her family's mind) that she could have had going out to the amusement park for the afternoon. Then tragedy strikes. She is killed. Of course her family is angry ... they are hurt beyond words. This should have never happened in their minds ... clearly "somebody" screwed up. A lawyer approaches them ... while they are in this state of mind ... of course they are going to want to exact revenge. No, this is probably not about money at all ... it's about making someone pay for the death of their daughter, their sister, maybe even someone's mother. The problem here is not necessarily with the lawyers ... rather it is with our legal system and the concept that someone has to pay ... someone screwed up ... someone needs to be held accountable. So don't be angry at this woman's family. Rather be angry with your State legislators who allow for a legal system where suing has become a natural right. Maybe legislation needs to be enacted that distinguishes those situations where law suits should be permitted (work injuries on faulty equipment, traffic accidents where injuries are sustained due to the gross negligence (or incapacity of the other driver) ... in other words situations where the injured party did little to contribute to his own injury ... he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time ... from injuries occurring when someone voluntarily places themselves in a "risky" situation ... as would be the case with skydiving or any other high risk endeavor. But, just think for a minute before you blame this family. How would you feel ... if you had no real knowledge of the sport other than tandem is a fun thing to do ... something a lot of your acquaintances have done over the years with no ill effects whatsoever ... and now you get a phone call telling you that your daughter ... that precious person you so love ... died doing something that should have been "safe?" I think in the state of mind these folks must be in right now ... if you were in their shoes ... you'd be considering a law suit as well. Blue skies ... --rita

It's my understanding that anytime you are covered by a group policy ... such as what you would have with your employer ... the insurer cannot deny coverage to individual members even for "high risk" sports injuries. The rationale for this is that they insure the "group." That group will have lots of couch potatoes in it ... it will have loads of "average" folks in it ... whose worse injury may be a sprained ankle sustained at a local softball game ... and then it will include a few "nuts" ... those extreme sports addicts who have a higher than normal risk for serious injury. So, if you are insured through your employer's group plan, you should have nothing to worry about. For what it's worth, I was badly injured in 1999 ... two broken femurs and a few other minor injuries ... in a landing accident. My medical bills easily topped $100,000 ... and I think my out of pocket expenses amounted to $500 tops. Everything was picked up by Blue Cross Personal Choice ... including air transfer back to Philly from Florida via a private medical charter. My employer's sick leave plan also made sure I received my full paycheck for each week of the 5+ months I was out of work recuperating. Blue skies ... --rita

If you have group coverage through your job, they are required to cover you for a skydiving accident. Apparently, at least here in the U.S., there is some sort of requirement that if you insure a group, you can't discriminate against individual group members because they happen to engage in "risky" pursuits. My medical insurance is through my employer and I've had the same coverage for well over 27 years. They covered EVERYTHING for my skydiving accident in 1999, including private lear jet medical transport from Florida back to my home state of Pennsylvania. Blue skies ... --rita

I have long been lurking this board, though not posting in quite a while. But this thread forced me to break my silence, despite the fact that I will probably get flamed to all get out. I too suffered a skydiving injury. At close to 100 jumps, I botched a landing badly, breaking both femurs. This happened in 1999. Though I was only grounded for one year, I made the decision not to jump anymore due to my poor apptitude for the sport. I ran up a lot of medical bills too ... over $60,000 worth for surgery, close to a month of in-patient hospitalization, a $10,000 lear jet ride to get me home from Florida (where my accident occurred), over six months of physical therapy ... the list goes on and on. The difference between myself and this lady is that I had medical insurance to cover most of those bills ... even the lear jet was picked up by my insurance carrier because they wanted to get me back into their provider network. Skydiving is a sport that is all about personal responsibility. You make your jumps and you take responsibility for them. There are no guarantees for your safety ... even if you make no mistakes whatsoever (highly unlikely for someone with low jump numbers). If something does go wrong, and you are injured, then my feeling is that you take your lumps and move past them. I feel that Shayna has no medical insurance to pick up her bills, but surely she knew that before she boarded that aircraft for her first jump? I could not imagine jumping with the knowledge that if I were to be injured ... even in a relatively minor sort of way ... that my family or the state or whoever would be stuck holding the bag to pay my medical bills. Nor would I expect the general public to pity me and send me contributions because I busted myself up doing something that I wanted to do ... something that most people wouldn't consider themselves "stupid" enough to try. I am disappointed that Shayna has chosen to go public with her needs. I am disappointed that she left Medicaid to pay her bills because she didn't have enough of a sense of financial responsbility to either provide insurance for herself, or refrain from indulging in high risk pursuits. Of course, people will say that medical insurance is expensive and maybe she didn't have the money for it. Well, fine ... skydiving is expensive too ... especially for a student progression. But obviously she had the money for that, right? And now she is willing to parade herself before the media ... letting people think that this poor woman somehow incurred all these bills because of an "unexpected" accident she suffered while skydiving? No accident in skydiving is unexpected ... unless the participant is a total fool. And, what's with the teeth deal? She needs expensive implants? What's wrong with dentures? A lot cheaper than implants and certainly an acceptable solution. After all, millions of senior citizens eat damned good with a mouthful of dentures. What? They aren't good enough of Shayna? Finally, as to Medicaid getting stuck picking up her medical bills ... don't think they will just pick them up without a fight. They're gonna look around to see if there are any sources to which they can subrogate some of the costs. I'm not aware of where Shayna was jumping when she suffered this accident, but if it was at a large dz here in the U.S., I would imagine that dz is gonna get "asked" to make a substantial contribution to those medical bills as well. Maybe that's why Shayna's instructor was just sitting by as she blithly gave her interview to the media. Maybe the dz that employs him required it. So ... sadly, I have no pity whatsoever for this woman's plight with her medical bills. I am certainly sorry she was hurt and I wish her nothing but the best for her ongoing recovery, but frankly I am embarrassed by her behavior in bringing her "case" to the public in the hopes of elicting contributions to cover the cost of her medical and other care. This, too, will be my only post on the subject. Blue skies ... --rita aka "Faceplant"

Need I discuss how many levels I failed? :) Skydiving training is a progression. Never forget that. Not everyone is a natural. Some of us are unluckier than others. On every jump, pass or fail, you learn something and that is the important thing. So, take your progression as it comes and no, you aer certainly not an idiot. As for the money thing, if you really are strapped, perhaps you should consider saving up the money for training first, and then buying a "package deal" which includes wind tunnel training. On the other hand, if you can pull the money together to train now, then I would suggest you not worry about getting a reduced rate by jumping next week without taking advantage of the tunnel time. Do things in a logical sequence and you'll probably have more success than if you go back out there next week ... just to save $80 ... and wind up failing the level again and thereby blowing $100 bucks. Hope this helps. By the way, it took me 46 jumps to finish student progression ... and I'm far from an idiot. Blue skies ... --rita

You say the market is "red hot" in your area. These people give you guaranteed leads for a set amount of cash. You are the only one to get the leads in a given zip code. You say you've already gotten 4x the amount of leads promised on the one zip code. Tell me, have you converted any of those leads into a listing? A sale? Anything that brings in money? Evaluate that second part of the equation before making a final decision on purchasing the additional zip code. You are clearly getting more leads that promised, and that's a good thing. But, as you say, are those "leads" leading anywhere? If they are, then you've got a money-making winner on your hands, and I say buy the second zip code ASAP. Unfortunately, you sometimes you have to spend money to make money. True, credit card debt sucks, but if you really think the proposal is a money-maker ... and from the information you give, it would appear to be, then I say you would be foolish not to spend the money. You can make it a priority to pay off the credit card debt with your earliest proceeds from the investment. Blue skies and good luck! --rita

I haven't heard much about Chris lately ... the freeflyer injured in the freefall collision at Deland. Last I heard, he was being transferred to a VA rehab center for therapy. Any updates? I think about him often. Blue skies ... --rita

LOL ... oh, man ... I almost pissed myself! Great story. I really enjoyed that. Blue skies and thanks for the laugh! --rita

Good point, and yes in answer to your question. No husband (or even significant other). No kids. But, I had two elderly parents who were very, shall we say "uneasy" about my skydiving. Initially, in fact, they were dead set against it. But once they saw how much I loved it ... how I would glow after a day on the dz ... how even when everything on my jumps went wrong ... flunked levels, getting yelled at for doing something stupid ... I still had what mom called "that glow" in my eyes. For that reason, the folks made a decision not to discourage my jumping. It was the first time in my life that they had ever seen me truly happy. The only request the folks made of me ... and this happened after a scare they got upon hearing about a skydiving plane crash and thinking it was local ... was that I call home after I was done jumping and let them know I was on the ground and safe. Then I could wander home whenever I wanted ... and at least they could sleep in peace. But, even in my case ... true ... I was somewhat selfish, but at least I had the knowledge that the folks were not dependent upon me financially. Even if they were, there would be enough life insurance and other assets to see them through any financial hardship they might experience. The folks and I had many a long conversation ... talks where I told them ... if I die, don't grieve. Know that I died in a manner where I was living life on my terms and doing what I truly loved. More people should die in that manner. Tragedy is when they die alone in nursing homes ... wallowing in their own shit ... with not a soul to give a damn. I honestly don't think the folks would have been devastated if I were to die jumping. Their fear, however, was that I would become permanently disabled with no one other than them to care for me. And, when you're in your late 70s/early 80s ... taking care of a disabled daughter may not be possible. I guess that's why after my accident, I began rethinking my participation in the sport. I was never really any good at skydiving ... most especially landing ... and I sure had my share of mishaps. After my accident ... something that could have truly been much worse than it was ... I woke up following the surgery, not knowing what the hell was going on. All I did know was that I couldn't feel my legs ... either one of them. Terror is not the word for what I went through. I was convinced I was paraplegic. There was no feeling whatsoever from the waist down. Of course, I didn't realize that I had just had major surgery ... the insertion of rods and pins in BOTH of my femurs ... the result of a really dumb landing ... no wind, poor touchdown ... very little flare ... a canopy that perhaps was just a wee bit too small for my burgeoning weight. I was one of the very, very fortunate ones, however. Fortunately, for me, the "paralysis" was just temporary ... the result of the shock sustained by my legs during a protracted surgery. But ... that's when I began thinking ... maybe this skydiving isn't such a good idea. I'm not good at it and perhaps my jumpmasters were right when they said I was an accident waiting to happen. That accident did happen, and this time I was lucky to suffer no lasting effects from it. Maybe the next time, I wouldn't be as lucky. Then I would really be taking a chance with the folks' enjoyment of their "sunset" years ... just because I wanted to take the risk of hurting myself so badly that I would never recover, and would forever be a burden to them. So, in my case ... at least for now ... I've pretty much given the sport up. Will I ever go back? I honestly don't know. Mom's gone now ... passed away last year ... but dad is left. And while they may not have been in any way dependent upon me before, now dad is very much emotionally dependent upon me, and I know it would absolutely kill him if I were to go back to jumping. So, I guess this is just a long, round-about way of saying that, yes, I've been selfish too ... but I still say that there is nothing more risky that chancing your children's emotional and financial future ... especially when you have no "plan B" to provide for that ... just so that you can jump. Blue skies ... --rita QuoteI think these are such good questions. Let me take this a step further. Kryos, when you were jumping, did you have any family? Any parents, siblings, or anyone who would have suffered profoundly had anything happened to you? Is that selfish too? Or maybe not as selfish as being a skydiver with kids?

Okay, but does your wife jump too? And if she does, do you routinely jump together ... i.e., go up on the same loads together? I think your case is vastly different. You have a wife ... a significant other who would be there if you were not. I'm talking a situation here where there is no significant other who would step in to raise six kids (the older ones were not *that* old ... maybe pre-teens). This girl's previous husband, if I recall correctly, was dead at the point she was making these jumps. There was, as far as I could determine, no one other than her parents available to help her out with the kids. In fact, she told me that she always brought the younger ones with her to the dz because six kids would be too many for her mom to handle. As far as I could see, she had no back-up system in place if she were rendered unable to care for these kids. Oh, I guess her parents could have taken them all in were she to be killed or permanently disabled, but I'm sure opening your house to six kids would be a financial hardship on just about anybody. I realize we all have to do that which makes us happy, and lord knows ... skydiving sure made me happy. I guess I just honestly wonder if that happiness would have been enough to sustain me were I to have had a young one dependent upon me for not only financial, but emotional support as well. Blue skies ... --rita ... and I also feel that I am a happier person now that I have started jumping (even my wife says so, albeit quite grudgingly).

Boy, you're lucky! :) What is it they say about the sport of skydiving? It's the only sport where femur is used as a verb ... as in "I femured." Yep! Never broke a bone in my life ... until mid- life. Then I took up skydiving ... and "double femured" ... When I do things, I try to do them with gusto! :) Blue skies ... --rita

That's something I always wondered about ... and my emotions go both ways on it. To all you parents out there ... especially single parents with very young children ... does it ever worry you that if something were to go tragically wrong on a jump ... and you were either killed or left permanently disabled ... what would happen to your kids? Do you make special arrangements in advance ... find someone you trust who would commit to raising your children if you couldn't? I'm not trying to start a war here ... I honestly am curious. During the period of time I jumped ... and never achieved any real mastery of the sport ... I often wondered if I would stick it out the way I was doing if there were children involved. Wouldn't that be incredibly selfish, especially if I were a single parent? Then one day I was at the dz and another girl I knew was working on her student progression. She was a divorced mother who had something like four young children. Where she even got the money to skydive was beyond me since she did not exactly have a great job, and I knew her parents helped her to make ends meet. I often wondered about her fitness as a good mother ... spending money on jumps that should be going for some of her children's basic needs. Anyway ... on this particular day she was doing one of her final jumps on a static line progression program. She was on like her 30 or 45 second delays. She went up in the Cessna with her jumpmaster, while I was on a Porter load of licensed skydivers. Since our load went up first, I had just landed when I noticed a group forming on the landing field. They were counting down 3-2-1 ... turns out they were waiting for the AAD to fire her reserve, because she had lost altitude awareness and had not pulled. Her jumpmaster, fortunately, caught up to her and got something over her head, and then barely beat his Cypres. They both landed off the dz, and people raced to where they were coming down. When she returned, although she was physically fine, emotionally she was a wreck. Of course, I was not privy to what went on in the debriefing room, but I did note that she looked much better after she came out ... so it couldn't have been that bad. I also noted that three of her children were playing ... right there on the dz ... as this closely-adverted tragedy was taking place. I also remember my shock when, a couple of weeks later, she was back at the dz ... still jumping ... her kids still right there in the sand pit playing happily. I'm sorry ... call me "unenlightened" ... but I lost all respect for her that day. How in God's name can you purposely place your life in danger when you have young children ... children you obviously wanted and thus brought into this world ... children who are totally dependent upon you to provide for them? True, anything in life that we do is fraught with potential risk. You can die crossing a large intersection to get to the building in which you work. But, those risks are not the same in my opinion. Those risks can be termed "unavoidable" risks of daily life. Skydiving is a risk that you proactively take for whatever reason you do it ... thrill, pleasure, challenge, enjoyment. Those things are fine and are the major reasons I continued in a student progression that I was failing miserably at. But, then ... I didn't have any kids, nor anyone dependent upon me for support. I think when a parent skydives ... a parent who has no one else really to support his/her kids if he/she couldn't ... that parent is selfish ... plain and simple. Had this woman been killed on this particular jump, her children would have probably been placed into foster care ... at least some of them ... because I doubt her parents could have taken in all of them (I think there were a total of six ... with four being very young). I think that situation equates to selfishness ... but mine is but an opinion of one. I'd like to hear what others think of this. Convince me otherwise if I am "misguided." Blue skies ... --rita

Only when I want a malfunction. :) Blue skies ... --rita

Don't hang your head in shame. That doesn't serve any purpose. Instead learn and grow from the experience. We all do stupid things. The important thing is to learn from your mistakes by analyzing what caused you to make them. How do you know there was nothing wrong with your main canopy? Surely you must have seen something that "didn't look right." Also, how the hell did the jump end up costing you $400? If the student jump costs, say, about $150-$200, a reserve repack couldn't possibly cost $200? Actually, they shouldn't even charge you for the repack ... it was a student jumper mistake ... something that should already be factored into the cost of student jumps. As for the runway landing ... yeah, that's not kewl, but you're not the first student to do that, and won't be the last. Okay, apologize ... buy a case, and maybe a case of bottled water for the pilots, and then forget about it. Go into your next jump determined to do better than the last. That's the only attitude to have if you want to become half-way competent in this sport. At least that's my experience anyway. Blue skies ... --rita I am really hanging my head in shame. Not so much because of the cutaway, but because I landed on the friggin' runway. (BEER!) GRRR!! I am so stupid.

And in my humble opinion that's the important thing. The freefall will rarely kill you no matter how much you screw up. Piloting the canopy had better be done right ... or you'll pay for it in soreness the whole next week ... or worse, far worse. I hear tell, though, that the Integrated Student Program focuses a lot more on canopy skills, so maybe the problem of adequate canopy training has already been resolved no matter which type of jumps you do. Blue skies ... --rita

The experience we had on our tandems. I have seen tandems "processed" ... one after the other. The students are discouraged from taking any active part in the jump because to take that part requires training and there are too many students to be run through the pipeline to properly provide that training. Those students then often leave the dz feeling like they had a wonderful time, but it was a time they could have also had at a large amusement park. They were merely a passenger along for a wild thrill ride. But other students get the opportunity ... perhaps because they demand it or they go to the dz on a slow weekend when the instructors have more time to spend training a student ... to actively participate in the jump. When that tandem jump is over, the student feels like they were a viable part of the experience and accomplished something through it. That feeling leaves them wanting more, and it is those students who frequently opt to continue in the sport. That's just my personal opinion, gleaned through my own personal experience ... and I am certainly not an instructor, nor an expert. Blue skies! --rita It's weird, I see plenty of first timers (tandems) with smiles on their faces after their jumps. But very few ever come back for some training. Even fewer make it through their training and become life-time jumpers. What makes those of us who become skydivers different?

QuoteI get puked on less than once per year. We probaly average one puke per 300 jumps at Pitt Meadows. Lovely way of putting it. :) QuoteCalming students in the airplane, talking to them while under canopy and minimizing the number of spirals can all reduce the incidence of puking. LOL ... not me. I'd have killed the tandem instructor who "minimized" the number of spirals just to prevent me from puking. As one of my instructors said to me after a particularly radical tandem canopy ride ... "lady, I couldn't do that with anyone but you ... unless I wanted to be drenched in puke!" Guess I'm lucky. I have a cast-iron stomach when it comes to motion-related problems. Aerobatics, spiraling tandem rides ... you name it ... whether I eat or don't eat beforehand ... not a problem. :) Blue skies! --rita