bjgraybeal

I have quite a bit of experience stowing this way, but with high performance rounds used for research and equipment. Like many people on here have stated, it is way too easy to develop uneven lengths. Also, every time I have seen this method used, loose elastic sleeves are used to hold the bights. When done properly it can make for great on heading opening, but it might take you over half an hour just to stow lines. For mains this is unpractical. The other reason this stow method may be used over another would be bulk distribution. Usually never an issue with sport mains. Great line of thinking, but a time consuming solution to a problem which can easily be corrected with body position and right equipment.

With the way you were talking about experience crewing for gas balloons I kinda thought you worked for WorldView. Have you asked them for quotes on envelopes? (Cause I have, six years ago). Funny cause worldview has only been a company since Oct 2013. But no I don't work for them.

http://www.worldview.space/fly-your-payload/

Very nicely said. There are a few balloon companies now, launching from quite a few places around the world. Currently working for a stratospheric balloon company under one of the world's top balloon designer, I proposed this question. How would you set up a ballooning operation to lift ~10 jumpers to 50,000-60,000ft and make it equal to the price skydivers are paying for a nice complete rig? He provided his answer and I became curious if there was already talk in the community about doing this. As far as reusable balloons, they are not often used but I have used them. Some painter's plastics are actually thinner than what is used in balloons. For a true space jump (61mi+) a rocket must be used. The ride itself would not be expensive, ~$100,000. There is already a company with the resources. The test jumps, equipment, engineering, training, etc is the real cost. $3,000,000 for a package of equipment, engineering, testing, and a ride is very reasonable. Thank you all for the responses, but it looks like the limitation is more the thought that it is impossible. The technology and companies are out there.

A gas balloon envelope that can take "~2000lb" (OP's number) to 60k MSL would be really really big. If you find a manufacturer that will make a re-usable gas balloon to those specs I will give them a gold star. A big high five to whoever pays for it. Who I don't want to meet is the poor ground crew gathering up a few million square feet and thousands of pounds of fragile, expensive balloon. Well then I deserve a gold star. It is called a super pressure balloon. If it is to be reused then it is never fully deflated, but brought down and stored in a hanger. The balloon would not be as big as you think, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 cubic feet volume. Weight would be around 100-150lb at the most. Sorry, you have met a poor ground crew member who has cleaned up the plastic. At least we are on the same team as far as GC goes. (12 years GC experience and free PG drops whenever there was room). I also did consulting work for Google's Project Loon (super-pressure helium long duration communication flights) I find it exceptionally hard to believe that a 200,000cf envelope that can do anything but a one time, one-way trip would weigh 150lb. A super pressure balloon is normally not intended for multiple inflations or flights. Re-usable gas balloons, even those that are meant to stay more or less inflated and hangared are at best comparable in mass per envelope area to hot air balloons. It is not easy reusing a balloon but it is possible. I have personal experience unpacking, inflating, and launching a balloon with a 2,200lb payload and designed to float at 110,000ft. the weight of that balloon was only 60lb. granted a reusable super pressure balloon would need more robust film, but it wouldn't add a ton of weight. It could be more feasible to have a one time use balloon that weighs only 30-40lb. Reusing a condom is also doable. But let's not grab the lube just yet. The point of this theoretical venture is to get RAF felix wannabes to 40k or 60k MSL, somewhat reliably. ignoring this would be classified by any insurance company, aviation authority, or investor to be a commercial flight. Ignoring that even hot air balloons are comically un-dependable as reliable aircraft compared to fixed wing. I doubt a 'used' zero-pressure or super-pressure balloon made out of film that makes painter's plastic drop-cloth seem like bullet-proof kevlar would make anyone very confident. IMO you would be better off modifying an existing aircraft already capable of 60kMSL (edit:40-50k, 60k gets a lot more expensive) flight for jumping. First, the reuse is a means to lower the price, but balloons are cheap. Plastic is a few hundred dollars and only a few hundred in labor, so one time use can also be done. As far as commercial flight use, you might want to let worldview enterprises know that this is not possible. They plan on taking tourist up to 100,000ft and descending under a massive square parachute in about a year.

*** You're saying that it is always the case that there are 180 opposed wind directions within a height span that a balloon can feasibly switch between at will in order to maintain a fixed position over the ground? Do you have a source or link to people that are operating balloons which can do this on any given flight? I never said 180 degree but a series of turns at various altitudes will track you back. Raven industry, worldview enterprises, and near space corporation can do this. Worldview has animation of how it works on their site.

Can it? Under what conditions? How often do these conditions occur? Short answer: Yes, normal, and always. Long answer:wind direction varies with altitude, so dropping or raising the balloon will bring it into those currents. And how many current, experienced skydivers would be willing to pay that much for one really high jump? Have you factored in the costs for rigs to fit the pressure suits? You said that people are willing to pay $4k for a tandem - you realise those tandem customers wont be able to do this, right? Don't know, hence the thread. I am not talking about 60,000ft tandems, but saying that people feel that the pricing is reasonable. the pressure suits are soft torso and would be no different than a heavy coat. How do they do that? A super pressure balloon can adjust it's altitude. some helium may have to be vented in order to land but the bulk reserved. The research balloon market does this quite often with research payloads, and these balloons are aloft for up to months at a time. Nothing I am presenting is beyond the scope of reality. The question is the target audience size.

A gas balloon envelope that can take "~2000lb" (OP's number) to 60k MSL would be really really big. If you find a manufacturer that will make a re-usable gas balloon to those specs I will give them a gold star. A big high five to whoever pays for it. Who I don't want to meet is the poor ground crew gathering up a few million square feet and thousands of pounds of fragile, expensive balloon. Well then I deserve a gold star. It is called a super pressure balloon. If it is to be reused then it is never fully deflated, but brought down and stored in a hanger. The balloon would not be as big as you think, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 cubic feet volume. Weight would be around 100-150lb at the most. Sorry, you have met a poor ground crew member who has cleaned up the plastic. At least we are on the same team as far as GC goes. (12 years GC experience and free PG drops whenever there was room). I also did consulting work for Google's Project Loon (super-pressure helium long duration communication flights) I find it exceptionally hard to believe that a 200,000cf envelope that can do anything but a one time, one-way trip would weigh 150lb. A super pressure balloon is normally not intended for multiple inflations or flights. Re-usable gas balloons, even those that are meant to stay more or less inflated and hangared are at best comparable in mass per envelope area to hot air balloons. It is not easy reusing a balloon but it is possible. I have personal experience unpacking, inflating, and launching a balloon with a 2,200lb payload and designed to float at 110,000ft. the weight of that balloon was only 60lb. granted a reusable super pressure balloon would need more robust film, but it wouldn't add a ton of weight. It could be more feasible to have a one time use balloon that weighs only 30-40lb.

Can this be done at the same time as climbing to 40k' in a "reasonable" time? Very few planes can you take to 40,000ft and jump. But the answer to your question is anywhere from 1,000ft/min and up. It really depends on how much helium is wasted in the free lift. If 20,000lb extra were thrown into a balloon lifting only 2,000lb, it would take off like a rocket ship. Not asking how fast a balloon can climb, asking if you can "hover" a balloon over a certain area while at the same time climbing to 40k' in a reasonable amount of time? Longer answer: Assuming perfect conditions in the most ideal area in the world, maybe. If you use a tether. A 60,000' tether for something with ~4000lb inertial mass would weigh (assuming lightest material available) about 4000 pounds. That would probably leave a mark if it came lose and hit you. Sorry, I misread the question. If you are ever in down in Tucson ask to take a tour of worldview enterprises.

LOL. How big of an area counts as 'hovering', how often do conditions in any given place make this feasible, and what range of altitudes would a balloon need to run through to make this happen? Ballpark figure? Rough estimate? How many zeroes before the decimal point? I must have missed that. I have about 10 launches, 4-5 hours PIC in hot air balloons and another 5-6 jumps from them. Somehow I missed the lessons on hovering. Might have been drunk that day. I could pull up info about hovering a balloon over a certain area, but since you are so knowledgeable I feel this would be in vain.

A gas balloon envelope that can take "~2000lb" (OP's number) to 60k MSL would be really really big. If you find a manufacturer that will make a re-usable gas balloon to those specs I will give them a gold star. A big high five to whoever pays for it. Who I don't want to meet is the poor ground crew gathering up a few million square feet and thousands of pounds of fragile, expensive balloon. Well then I deserve a gold star. It is called a super pressure balloon. If it is to be reused then it is never fully deflated, but brought down and stored in a hanger. The balloon would not be as big as you think, somewhere in the neighborhood of 200,000 cubic feet volume. Weight would be around 100-150lb at the most. Sorry, you have met a poor ground crew member who has cleaned up the plastic.

LOL. How big of an area counts as 'hovering', how often do conditions in any given place make this feasible, and what range of altitudes would a balloon need to run through to make this happen? Ballpark figure? Rough estimate? How many zeroes before the decimal point? Hovering can happen in a very small window of a few square miles and a few thousand feet of elevation change. But would not be necessary in this application as people would jump as the altitude is reached. Rough estimate. If divided between 10 people, renting suits, and an established business, I would guess $10,000-$20,000. and a company who would do this could reuse the balloon and helium and rent the suits. This would keep their overhead low and possibly lower customer cost.

Can this be done at the same time as climbing to 40k' in a "reasonable" time? Very few planes can you take to 40,000ft and jump. But the answer to your question is anywhere from 1,000ft/min and up. It really depends on how much helium is wasted in the free lift. If 20,000lb extra were thrown into a balloon lifting only 2,000lb, it would take off like a rocket ship.

So you're figurng $500 a person for just the helium, then you've got the balloon costs, crew costs, launch site costs, pressure suit costs, custom parachute and rigging costs, insurance costs, other business overheads, profit margin... exactly what final 'reasonable' per person jump ticket cost are you envisioning here that will lead to this becoming a commonplace activity? Reasonable is very subjective, but people are paying almost $4,000 for a tandem from 30,000ft. And if this became a thing, I would imagine that a company would rent the suits. I don't know the final figures but those who would "need" to do it would find most prices reasonable.

Yes, balloons can hover over the earth by using the different directions of wind and different altitudes.