snowlep

Yeah at a boogie where I was still jumping student gear the people from abroad were taking photos and looking like they were at a museum :), though lately I've been seeing mostly modern Vectors, Wings etc.

In Croatia AADs are mandated only for students and jumps from above 4500m MSL.

Doug's right. If you're careful and do straight in upwind landings, you could (and probably would) be ok. But the real danger is how you'll react when you have unexpected situations such as landing out or avoiding a sudden obstacle near the ground.

In case I wasn't clear enough: I'm having no problems landing my Pilot 169. I've stood up all of my landings on it, including a couple in moderate downwind. I'm pretty sure my problem was timing the flare on the Sabre rental.

Yup, we started at 3,300' for our first 7-10 jumps IIRC. Can't say I wasn't eager to go higher ASAP, but I'm glad I got the low-height fear out my first few jumps.

Maybe, one day.

Bovec, Slovenia

I only have POV film of my landings but they were like this in no wind. Just two steps to walk it off. I think I even had some unused break line, so my next jumps I'm hoping will be at 1000m so I can just focus on completing the flare and practicing the timing. Wheras the Sabre would level me off but barely slow me down horizontally, if at all (under no wind condition).

This seems reasonable and was the jist of my comment. Thank you for the constructive response.

If you do S-turns of 25-30 degrees in the main landing area on final at either dropzone that I jump at, someone will probably yell at you. You could now be in the way of an imminently landing canopy, who thought you were landing straight in, like everyone else. If somebody is having an imminent landing above 200 ft the ground is probably a bigger concern for them, unless they are doing a HP landing in which case they'd be heading at an even higher speed towards the same obstacle the student is trying to avoid, as well as raise the question of why do an hp landing so close to a student in the first place.

To be perfectly clear the s-turns are very gradual and elongated. Not looking to lose altitude in the turns but rather shorten the distance of your flight in one direction. Don't go more than 25-30 degrees on either side. Remember, your canopy starts turning before you do. As mathrick said, the first priority is to have the canopy over your head and not to the side.

No, your first priority is landing with a canopy overhead. That's why you don't hook turn or let go of an early flare, because it can kill you if you do. Second priority is landing clear of obstacles. Third is into the wind. True

My first 5 or so landings were so bad I almost quit. Because of poor instruction I wasn't taught to flare at all on my first jump (but to land with 50% brakes I think), and on the next jumps I flared so late I was barely at 50% when I 'landed'. On the sixth I finally flared a little higher with a full flare and something just clicked, and I was good after that. What were the problems on your last few landings? Flaring low, going fast? Or are you lacking confidence in landing on your feet because of the time you got injured? If you flare too high or strongly and pop up, do not let up on the brakes. Keep them where they are, and when you start losing lift/altitude use the rest of the brakes for a normal flare. This has saved me a couple times while downsizing. The problem is when you flare too high and then go to full flight, the canopy surges forward and toward the ground because it's looking for air to inflate it. Coming in high was also often a problem for me on student canopies. Remember you can do s-turns to lose altitude. Nothing radical and only minor corrections when below ~200ft. Another thing I had to learn the hard way because during instruction I was reinforced more with having to land into the wind than avoiding non-building obstacles. Your first priority is landing clear of obstacled be they bushes, ditches, benches, trees, planes, hangars or buildings! Landing into the wind is secondary to that. I was lucky never to injure myself, but have had a landing through a bushline into a river, one through a 4 foot hole in a barbed wire fence and one just short of the same fence (with canopy landing on it). I hope some of this is of use to you.

I managed to make 6 jumps this past weekend on my Pilot 168 and I've had the best landings since I started jumping, including one downwind (the others were in no wind). I just feel like I can keep flaring till tomorrow. Besides the different canopy, other differences that might've contributed is a tidy dz with evenly cut grass on a level field (had fun 'skating' along it for a couple landings) and not wearing shorts (no fear of skinning my legs). So besides the much older Sabre probably having lost its performance due to age/use and possibly the lines as well, I think my problems were probably mainly down to timing the flare and additional stress over the condition of the landing area (even though this past weekend was my first time at the dz I was at). Honestly, I'm really happy with the Pilot and am having fun learning it but will avoid jumping the Sabre even if it means not jumping that weekend. @Cari If I'm not mistaken differences in performance are larger between smaller canopies than larger ones at the same wing loading. So your experience downsizing from a 170 to a 150 would be much more radical than me downsizing from a 210 to a 190 even though we'd be at the same wl.

The openings on the Sabre I've been using are fine and on-heading. They were better with even a decent snivel when I had the rigger pack it the first few times, but even with my noob packing I've had no complaints.

The Sabre has a harder toggle input that's more sensitive (so tougher to pull but more reactive), and the main rigger at the DZ let me use it. The Pilot's toggles seem to have some slack in them at the top and are softer throughout, however the canopy itself seems noticeably slower at full speed (both high up and near the ground) and gave me two very soft landings with great flares in similar wind conditions as the Sabre with which I'm coming in faster with at least a little fear. True, I don't know how many jumps on the Sabre but I'm assuming a lot, while the Pilot has less than 300 w/ original lines that my rigger said are in great shape. It probably is down to timing the flare and possible that I wasn't finishing it. Also now that I think of it I didn't do any practice flares up high on Sunday, I thought I'd had it learned so was trying other things.

Guys please keep comparisons that have no effect on the situation (openings) out of this. Sure CSpence called the Sabre a pos, but I'd rather focus on the 17 year old part instead; could so many jumps affect the material and make it more porous degrading the flare? Anyway, next week I'm looking at making at least 10 jumps on my Pilot and seeing how it goes, but from the first 2 jumps I made I'm expecting no stress whatsoever. Nonetheless, I can't believe I've had such a different experience landing two canopies of relatively similar design, both with good lines, except if 17yo fabric of one vs the still slippery fabric of the 5yo one could have such an effect.

For me I was nervous for each of about the first 10 jumps. After that it was only for the first jump of the day until about my 40th/50th, and after that it was gone completely except if I have a longer pause between jumps (more than a few weeks) whereby it's only for the first jump of the day again.

The landings I had on the Sabre before yesterday, especially when I figured out the bottom 15cm, felt more like what looks to be happening in this video at around 1:25 with the yellow canopy. Whereas yesterday it might have been more like the blue canopy at 1:10 (doesn't pitch back as much so I couldn't swing in front of it, which would subsequently bleed off horizontal speed as the canopy "catches up" to me).

Thank you for your replies. The Sabre in question is a Sabre1 (DOM '97), my canopy is the a Pilot 168 ZPX (DOM 2010) I have only 2 jumps on (best landings ever), but yesterday I went back to the rented Sabre because I don't have an AAD on my rig (w/ the Pilot) and it's DZ policy. I'm pretty sure my flares yesterday were more dynamic (one fluid motion, just changing the speed of it throughout) and I think that might've been the problem because that doesn't change the pitch of the canopy in the braking phase as much, slowing it down less, right? As far as sliding, it wouldn't be any problem if I was anticipating the problem again and it wasn't so hot. I'm definitely losing the shorts for my next jumps, especially since my shins are now symmetrical.

I have about 75 jumps, the last 20 with a Sabre 170 loaded at about 1.25. Most of my landings were in moderate wind and no problems, but on my first low/no wind landing i couldn't slow it down enough so i ran a bit and then slid on a shin even though i probably should've kept running and would be ok. Then i realised i was leaving about 15cm of my brakes unused near the end of the flare that had quite a bit of power left in them. By the next weekend i'd bought a used Pilot 168 and made 2 jumps, it felt significantly slower in full flight and near the ground, and had two of the softest landings ever with a higher/slower and lower/faster flare respectively. Which brings me back to yesterday when I did 2 jumps on the Sabre again. Low wind, flared low, pretty sure I used all the toggles could give length-wise, but since I went lower and put my legs behind and didn't have anything left in the flare to pull me up, cut my other shin on the grass this time. And the second, horor jump of yesterday. Thought my biggest problem was not trusting my legs to jog it off. Moderate wind. Straight in aproach and pulled my front risers to lose some distance before landing. This was at least 10-15 seconds before I started my flare so I'm not sure how much of the extra speed was left. I see I'm coming in fast as hell, do a complete flare at a normal height, nothing left and I'm still doing at least 30 km/h (almost 20 mph). Gymnastics ensued with a combination of running, sliding on my back and two front rolls through the risers. I'm fine, but frustrated since I thought I had a eureka moment when I saw I wasn't finishing my flare a couple weekends ago and had had wonderful landings since then on both canopies, and now ended up mowing the grass again, especially seeing jumpers on much smaller canopies come in at twice the speed and barely having to jog at the end. Any suggestions or thoughts? I think after the first part, when I lose vertical speed, I might start the second part too gradually and early instead of waiting to feel the loss in lift and then pulling a little faster. I hope I can get someone to film my landings so I can see exactly what I'm doing.