weavermc

Thanks for reporting - I also got contacted by this person.

I've dealt with him and had no issues at all

I'm late to this conversation - I jump at Monterey Bay and the above is true - it's a Tandem DZ but great for stopping by for a jump (just not a lot of jumps). The King Air 200 goes to 18K in 8-10 minutes (yes, those #s are accurate) and the view is incredible (you can YouTube tons of vids that show the view). Operates on a large (old Army) airfield with wide open landing, and its about 1.5 miles to the beach so views are great... Easy to get to (about 5 mins from CA-1 / Pacific Coast Highway), and easy to get back to US101 to head South Mark

He finally landed that canopy in California yesterday... It was definately an expensive start to his CA jumping stint...

I wish. I'm at grad school now with a transition team follow on. JD just got out here after 'high five-ing' with you. He was 2 years ahead of me and we're nothing jumping in Monterey now.

I learned at USMA '94-'98 and left with S/L I and PRO ratings. Since then i've earned my AFF-I & TAN-I ratings and am currently an S&TA.

I've had 1 refusal in 1500 tandems - although lots of "almosts" If they're nervous, I explain how it will work (and that I do the 'hard' stuff) - if that doesn't work, I remind them that they came here to jump and it's non-refundable. If they still say no - i'm not forcing them... Step 1 takes care of 90%, Step 2 takes care of another 9.93%. After that, is the liability of 'forcing' a jump worth a skydive? For comparison, check out the TI's face during this attempted exit - I think he debated going but knew better. Then it all turned out just fine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIyxHL2Og3Y

I've noticed on some SIGMA rigs I jump that the leg straps 'slip' slightly when I apply pressure (by arching after putting the rig on). This is part of my routine now, and if they slip, i tuck the webbing under the legstraps...

We had this 'debate' with our instructors last year and I emailed USPA and UPT for their input - simply put, it was "each skydiver requires their own seat belt during taxi, takeoff and landing." Backwards planning from that, each student gets their own seatbelt, and I (personally) hook up the lowers after 1,500' I do the full hook up and tighten down at approximately 10k (for either a 15K or 18K Tandem). If there is an emergency exit below that, I want to be free of my student (and vice versa) - above that, i'm assuming we've had a succesful takeoff, and can do a quick uppers-hook up and exit in an emergency (or disconnect lowers and re-attach seatbelt if a problem develops between 1500' and 4K).

Wow - lots of bad press on Cobalt's. I guess i'm lucky becuase i've owned Cobalts for years with no issues. My wife shoots video and jumps a Cobalt 135, and I've jumped a Cobalt 120 and 135. I recently purchased another Cobalt 135 for a backup rig (so we currently own 3 - all 135's). I don't roll the nose or anything fancy, just bury it by the tail before I cacoon it. On opening - leave the risers alone - it will improve your openings. That said - like the others suggested, demo the canopy first to see if you like it. Mark

Utah, Can you please elaborate on how the guy in the picture (me) screwed up? I recognized a high speed malfunction, pulled the cutaway handle and then the reserve handle in accordance with the UPT manual (I believe chapter 4). Also, the point of me posting this is to let TMs know that sometimes the collapsed drouge does NOT have enough drag to lift the risers off the 3-ring which requires manually clearing the risers (which is not covered in the manual) I'm also willing to learn so I look forward to any constructive input.

I have also succesfully yanked a baglock clear by pulling on risers on my personal gear. After watching the video, I did reach up to grab the risers, but made a quick decision to not lose precious altitude trying to clear the mal with a Tandem Passenger on front. This was a quick decision made due to my spot, because I had a video guy still in freefall (he still landed out), and I wanted max time to deal with the reserve due it being a Tandem. In retrospect, I think I made the right decision because pulling on the risers would not have met any resistance due to the collapsed drogue - unlike a sport rig which has an inflated pilot chute to pull against. On another note, I have seen the UPT mod for extending drogue kill lines to help prevent this. The file is a 3MB .pdf so not postable, but I have not yet found on the UPT website. While they recommend only mod'ing canopies with long trap doors, our owner is going to mod all of our SIGMAs to prevent this near fatal mal happening again (the alternative is potentially harder openings). I can email the file if wanted. Mark

I got to watch the video today and wanted to add a few quick notes. 1. Drogue release to pulling handles was approx 5 seconds. While I confirmed that I pulled in the correct sequence, I was surprised about how quickly I pulled the reserve after the cutaway. I think it was the "Oh S@$t" factor, but I do wonder if intentionally waiting a second or two would have helped clear the risers 2. Reserve pull to full canopy was about 3 1/4 seconds. I think its amazing that the video (Shawn Foust) got off as many great shots as he did during that time. Since my spot was a little long, I pulled arond 6200' and my altitrack recorded a 4450' opening. Like Mike mentioned above, stills capture moments and I wanted to put the sequence in some type of time and altitude frame. Mark

"What the hell are we doing jumping gear where a collapsed drogue will lift the bag but won't clear the risers?" I won't go into details, but the system is designed to collapse the drogue and I believe that all (most?) Tandem Systems do the same. (See Bill Booth's post above about this scenerio) Now, based on my reading throughout this forum, I think that a Tandem Baglock creates a unique situation unlike a sport rig where the collapsed drogue does not stand you up or have the force to pull the risers off. On a sport rig, I chopped a baglock and it released instantly - BUT - it had the fully inflated pilot chute (The note above is interesting about the on-the-ground test to replicate this issue) That all said - my intent for adding to this thread is to spread the word that a Tandem baglock is different than a sport baglock, and the procedures should be amended to ensure the TM clears the risers. It appears that some TMs know about this, but my personal opinion is not enough (like I didn't), and I would like the SIGMA manual and training (and possibly others) updated to refect this seemingly minor change. (My stomach is still uneasy after looking at pic: baglock 12 and realizing how bad it could have gotten) As for checking the drogue, the compressed bridle to the upper left of the 'chimney' and the cocked 'window' allow TMs to check the drogue (and other items) efficiently before jumping. I have yet to see an Instructor put gear on the bus, or on their back, without doing a pre-gear inspection.

Unfortunately UPT has yet to respond to the owner. As you read through the threads, there are several theories on the cause of the baglock. However, the non-release of the risers Is caused by the collapsed drouge not having enough drag to pull the risers off (or in some cases even open the riser covers) Hopefully word gets out to clear the risers

In the 'how many SIGMA TMs clear their risers in the event of a baglock' thread, I have described a recent mal that was almost fatal. I have now added some of the pics to show what happened - and hope all TMs read and see it to disseminate possibly life-saving info. Please do not reply to this thread as the other one already has some good info in it. Mark http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2679209;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

To further add to my posts above, pics are now posted below in an attempt to emphasize the near fatality I had on this jump. I personally think that the Tandem Manufacturers should include this in the training and, at least in SIGMAs case, update the "Malfunction Flowchart" to add "clear risers" following cutaway from a baglock (or horseshoe). At the very minimum, I hope TMs see this and realize to add the step of manually checking risers during high-speed, low-drag malfunctions. Baglock 9 - Shows both handles out, Reserve PC launching and wrapping around the right side lines. Baglock 12 - Shows the Reserve PC hindered by the bridle wrapped around lines & caught on d-bag. The freebag is banging against the d-bag (causing - i think - the reserve to be knocked out) Baglock 13 - Shows the the same as 12 but more reserve out Baglock 16 - Shows the reserve opening with the dbag connected by at least one riser, the drogue above the reserve, and everything inter-mingled. Baglock 18 - Shows the d-bag still connected by at least one riser while falling away and the reserve PC/freebag still wrapped (although coming free) Please PM me if you need better quality pics to show TMs (These are already cropped from originals but I had to resize them from 500-700KB down to 250KB to upload)

Good idea - I know for me it is going to be a big change to the last 15 years of thought-processing about high-spped malfunction emergency procedures.

I currently jump at Skydive Monterey Bay (Marina, CA) and we have at least two instructors that have jumped with students that have disabilities somewhat similiar to yours. If you PM me, we can discuss your condition and provide advice about if we can possibly help - all the while knowing that we'd make a final decision at jump time. In general, I personally would like to ensure that your doctor has cleared you to handle the adrenaline and altitude. My experience jumping from a King Air involved me sitting by the door and the student on my lap (family members carried her up the stairs and placed her on my lap - and were on the ground with wheelchair to assist picking her up). After hookup, duct-taping the students legs to my shins (to control during freefall). However, this particular technique is best done on a windy day since the tape prevents swinging the legs foward for a slide landing. If the student can handle the altitude, the jump, and has the flexibility to bend from a seated position to the arch, there should be a few different dz's that can accomodate. (Always remembering that we will be cautious as to not make your condition worse).

Once the DZ owner has had a chance to talk to UPT, we will probably post one or two of the pics, but I'd like to expand on what Mike correctly expalined from my Mal. "In another photo the reserve bag is next to the main bag. Reserve lines are all over the place. The reserve pilot chute is fully inflated. The reserve is coming out of the bag. Indication here is that both bags are entangled." **My addition/clarification is based on looking at the pics over and over - I can't confirm this is the sequence 100%, but this is what the pictures seem to indicate to me (Mike - please review the pics again and comment)** -As the Reserve Pilot Chute launched, it "snaked/wrapped" around the righthand set of lines as it launches off my back. -Fully inflated, the reserve pilot chute continues launching, pulling the reserve freebag out of the container and dumping the lines out of the freebag - BUT, still wrapped one time around one set of lines. -The Reserve PC continues to launch until the freebag hits the main d-bag. At this point, the reserve bridle is still wrapped around one set of lines and is holding the reserve pilot chute in place, preventing reserve line stretch. I THINK that the 'banging' of the freebag against the d-bag knocked the reserve out of the freebag, and then starts to inflate - WHILE - the main drogue, d-bag, lines and reserve pilot chute/bridle/freebag are still entangled. NOTE: Even the drag created by the Reserve Pilot Chute (which was wrapped around the lines at the d-bag) was not enough to release the risers from the 3-ring. (VERY) Luckily for me, the reserve was able to open, and as it fully opened, the drag on the deflated drogue/d-bag/reserve PC stopped, allowing it to fall below me. Then, the pressure/force of the falling & baglocked d-bag pulled the risers off of the 3-ring system. Again, as I mentioned previously, the sequence of events started with a baglock, and was aggravated due to the low-drag of the collapsed drogue/d-bag failing to "pull" the cutatway risers off of the 3-ring system. This is despite the fact that there was enough pressure to open the magnetic riser covers (a related issue to this that Bill Booth discusses earlier in this thread). It is true that picture(s) will be worth a thousand words, but until we post them, please learn from this near-fatality (like Mike mentioned) and educate TM's to check risers after chopping a baglock - The life you save may be your own. Thanks Mark

I know its a lot - and to be honest, had I thought to do it, it would have been taxing.... however, looking at the "after" pics, I will now try to find a way to do all that in this situation. I also read about the Guam Tandem fatality which involved a reserve/main entanglement and I feel lucky mine did not turn out that way.

FYI - I recently had a SIGMA Baglock where the risers did not release after I cutaway, and the reserve almost entangled with the main/drogue. It appears that the riser covers were open. One TM who was at the DZ that day reported that he had been told always manually clear the risers for a baglock (due to low-drag), but most of us had not heard that response emphasized. Therefore, two points 1-The pics showing my reserve going by my main made my stomach sick - i'm glad to be here. 2-Please help spread the word - manually clear risers on a collapsing-drogue systems (like SIGMAs) that experience a baglock. (This thread also discusses low-drag malfunctions not opening riser covers which is a similar situation to be concerned about). Mark FYI: We are evaluating the pictures/vid and will be sending to UPT for review, until then, they will not be posted.

Okay, so i've done several searches in the forums and I think I've seen some common responses; however, I'm going to bring this up again to help educate myself (and maybe even other TMs). I've been doing Tandems for about 8 years, mostly on SET 400s (Strong) and the last 200 on Icarus 330 (SIGMA & Eclipse). We had a TM chop for line twists and we thought it was an anomally. This weekend, I chopped one for line twists on the first load, and another instructor chopped for the same thing on load 2. For my experience (after watching slo mo video), my opening involved a slight shoulder drop during the trap door, but lines coming out straight and taut throughout. Canopy opened fully and was not spinning. Once the canopy was open, we started spinning up, and I had line twists from about 1/2 way up, down towards the top of the risers. I've kicked out of plenty of these before, but nothing seemed to work. Kicking actually turned us TIGHTER (both of us kicking and just me). Just sitting there resulted in no movement at all. Using my arm to get leverage to "kick start" the unwinding would turn me about 45 degrees, and then right back to where I was (i.e. the line twists seemed to have "locked" the risers/lines in place). After messing with it from around 4800 to 3800 feet, I finally chopped. One of our more senior TMs suggested (after the fact) trying to get the twists tighter/deeper until they are into the risers to help start the unwinding, and that matches some of the comments mentioned previously. The other recommended response from here appears to be trying to pull a toggle to start a canopy turn will help the canopy unwind itself (something that at face value worries me - but I will put in my kit-bag). Based on my description, other posts, and your experience, have any of you had other solutions for "Locked" line twists on Icarus Tandem Mains? Thanks in advance Weaves