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Everything posted by airtwardo

  1. QuoteThis is an anonymous poll. What do you really think of all the Demo insurance hupla. Are PRO skydivers going to far in the rants? Should USPA give up the fight, and let the demo guys find their own insurance? I already know that some of these answers overlap each other. Quote You should probably take some time and go completely through the posts concerning these issues, as from the content of you poll / post you really don't have a realistic grasp of the situation.... In brief, it is NOT a demo jumper insurance issue... It actually is an issue affecting all members of the USPA. The general membership liability coverage that ALL members of the USPA have, is a part of the overall insurance policy, of which is actually written in two parts... Either one of which cannot exist without the other. As far as the general membership 'subsidizing' the demo insurance, it is true that less than 5 dollars of each members yearly dues go toward the demo insurance premium... A policy that the organization used as a stopgap solution while another fix could be found. Which the USPA is currently doing and should have in place by the next Board of Directors meeting. If you were to actually do some research in the area, you would no doubt be surprised to find that if the "demo" section were to be excluded from the overall policy as it currently stands... your part of the general membership premium would most likely increase for the basic coverage you currently enjoy. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  2. QuoteI heard the Greater St. Louis Parachute Club does demo jumps frequently off the arch. I'm sure they would know more about it. Quote "OFF the Arch??!!" I don't think so! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  3. Is the 'Challenger' canopy still being made? I had jump one at a meet years ago... and in my opnion it was the best accuri canopy ever.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  4. I know of two... One was was not. I knew both people in those two jumps, there may have been another I'm not aware of. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  5. Dead Center on THAT post! Well thought out, articulated and accurate. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  6. Quote... seven chutes ... sounds more like a scene from an old barnstormer movie, like "Gypsy Moths." *** I know a guy that has the rig supposedly used in the movie... I've seen it, and actually put it on once years ago. (He offered...I wouldn't jump it!) It's a 7 parachute system... 5 parachutes the for intentional cutting away. Heavy as hell! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  7. *** I do see your point! And it does raise an interesting question... I wonder if and for how much a person might actually be covered in a real world situation, by such a 'personal policy' if he were jumping demos for charity events and such...?
  8. QuoteYeah, I already had that discussion. If it's done for fun, it's covered. Competition isn't. *** But how about if it's done for money? If you are being paid as a 'professional performer' and someone should be inadvertently injured as a result of your performance.... I'm doubtful homeowners / renters liability would cover you. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  9. QuoteWe'll leave that to the pro's like Twardo's team and the like or the military teams. *** I thank you for the compliment Jim! Coming from you that truly means a lot.. Though I certainly wouldn't put my group in the league with the Military Teams... Hang in there ole buddy... Who knows if things work out, this whole Demo issue may resolve itself in a way that makes it work for everyone! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  10. QuoteJim: I hate to sound cheap and maybe I'm missing something obvious but, if insurance rates are going to go down, why are the application and renewal rates going up? Is it so that non PRO rated USPA members don't have to help support the program, and if so, will USPA membership dues go down? I'm all about increasing the Standards of PRO rating holders. Go Texas *** John, I honestly don't know if rates are in fact going to decrease... That's my hope, and what I've been led to believe in the 'most general of terms' ...if ya get my drift. Your assessment is pretty much in line with what I am thinking... They may be talking about raising the PRO rating fees to compensate for what the general fund currently kicks in. But who knows for sure... None of this is on the USPA website... Though there are several comments pertaining to a deductible for each incident. All I know for sure is that there is another company working up a bid... They seemed to think it would be a lot better than what we are now paying... Only time will tell. Happy New Year Brother!
  11. I don't think the jumper was but I think the woman he landed on was... it was running on CNN for a while when it happened. *** Duh!! You meant injured... you're right...she was! My single mindedness made me think you meant insured... DOUHHH! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  12. I agree... Individual claim information is not available to members. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  13. Yeah, I had a similar discussion some time back... Ask him another hypothetical concerning parachute activities and demonstration jumping... It's whole different can 'o worms... If said thrown football were tossed by someone being paid to do so...a performance so to speak. The insurer may have a slightly different opinion on whether they would pay. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  14. Thanks! Again - I pose the question - what are these big payouts that are forcing the rates up? Are we really talking about events that happened in 96 before the pro requirement? There does not seem to be an excesive number of injuries or claims in the pro section at all. Now I'm really confused. _Am I agree! Without those two high dollar claims, 300,000 & 600,000 The PRO liability seems minuscule in comparison... Things that make ya go HUMMM! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  15. I've seen the information on the link provided... And again, I hope it works out for all involved. I discussed that solution with our attorney, and he was of the opinion that any agreement of that type would not hold up in court. For it to be at all viable, each and every person attending the event would have to agree to the terms and do so with a signature... minors would be exempt from the conditions... But not from being able to sue should injury occur. Also... Even if such a hold harmless waiver were in force... If a spectator were to be injured, and negligence on the performers part could be proven... The waiver would not be worth the ink or the paper it's on. It's an interesting, creative and understandable approach. And with all due respect to the DZO's utilizing it... (I mean that sincerely, I know the reasoning involved and their high qualifications & standing within the organization and demo community.) ...I personally wouldn't bet my current & future net worth on a program of that nature. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  16. Sorry... I stand corrected! (again) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  17. Do the members have access to this information? see 10 Year Report - pdf file Linked from Insurance Crisis I've seen that...but a more detailed description of actual incidents and payouts is called for to adjust an actuarially chart and get solid figures with which to compare. Break down by type, payout and year would be highly informative... And things don't make sense to me... Granted I'm a bit slow... but weren't we just told that THIS YEARS premium is 420,000... if that is the 10 year total, something doesn't add up? Or is it just me?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  18. I feel you pain bro! I agree that the types of demos you speak of are at least... if not more important, than the 'high profile' types I ordinarily am involved with. For me the increase in fees is an expense that would be passed on to the people I contract with... I will still feel it though, as the demo market is an extremely competitive arena, and we can't jack the price a whole lot and still be in the running so to speak. Hopefully a new insurance policy / carrier will have more reasonable rates and we will be able to offset the rating increase with a premium decrease. Who knows at this point. In your case...doing demos on jump run. From the way you describe it, I'm guessing you don't have demo insurance for those anyway? You would only need a PRO if you were purchasing the demo coverage...and even then only for certain types of demos. You don't have to have the rating to do demos... There has been discussion in this area as to having the demo customer sign a 'hold-harmless' type of agreement. One team / DZ in the Midwest is even advertising that in their demo promr materials... An attorney I spoke with felt this approach was less than worthless... but it is an idea for 'backyard' type jumps I guess. Maybe as 'Masher' suggested... A multilevel PRO Rating system could be instituted... with crowd size or landing areas as a consideration in regard to rating requirements. I don't know the answer... In one respect, if a person only does one or two demos a year...are they really current and qualified to be a "PRO"? On the other hand I know guys that don't have the rating but are more qualified than most Golden Knights in the performance aspect. As far a multiple magazines goes... in reality that is a minimal expense in the big picture on the spread sheet... You wanna talk cost cutting? Let's look at the new building...the property next to it, slated for the all important USPA Museum... how about a review of some of the outside vendors (23?) that perform whatever services for the organization.... I agree with Doc. Kallen....what a way to run a business! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  19. QuoteI'm a little confused, 'twardo. At the beginning of this thread you were saying that high claims against demo jumpers were leading to a cancellation of the demo insurance - now you seem to claiming that it is general membership claims which are responsible... So maybe the PRO rating was working? Did the claims information you received change your understanding of the situation? *** YOUR CONFUSED! I haven't been able to get a 'straight' answer from the organization any almost anything concerning the present policy!! Yes...and NO from what I've been recently told... by insurance carriers anyway. NOT BY USPA! What they look at in determining policy costs are the 'significant' claims. And by that standard.... the pro policy is less of a risk that the general membership policy. Now I was told by various members of the USPA organization that the PRO policy has had more payouts $ wise in recent years than the general membership policy.... But then that statement was qualified / retracted when I began doing further research and asking more in depth questions. I truly don't know the answer.... But from what the rep for the 'new' insurance company told me at ICAS... The general membership policy is / was the higher risk...greater drain end of the overall policy. Why these facts are such a 'secret' is beyond me... I'm happy that the USPA finally got all the past claim info together and is seeking other options... but that information still isn't available to us the members... or for that matter, even members on the BOD seeking other avenues to pursue in regard to coverage. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  20. Wrong. In fact it's the opposite. What I've been told is... An insurance carrier looks at what it refers to as 'significant claims' against a policy. What a significant claim in general terms is, a claim paid out that is in excess of 50% of the coverage amount for that incident. For the PRO policy there is one that falls into that category... The general membership policy has dozens! Another way to illustrate the point is that our current carrier has paid out less than 1/2 of what they have taken in as premiums. The lions share of those pay outs have been toward the general membership policy claims. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  21. I too participate in those sports as well... I actually have to show a license to 'buy air'... and to dive on charter boats. The PADI Instructors I know that do it for a living are in fact insured against possible liability should someone in their 'care' be injured. I also have 'decompression chamber' insurance that I buy through PADI, to cover the expence should I need the service. Ski slopes....Read your lift ticket. YOU are responsible for injuries and or damage you may cause. USPA doesn't try to regulate the sky... I know of several jumpers that are not members... and they fall pretty much the same as members do. They just don't have access to the benefits offered by the organization ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  22. QuoteYou almost never have to advertise for people that are looking for your service. What a DEMO does is exposes people to skydiving that weren't looking to make skydives, but probably would if motivated. So, guy goes to a NASCAR event, not thinking about skydiving, sees the flag fly in on a DEMO jumper and thinks, "hey, that looks like fun". That's what a DEMO does. *** And as a Professional Demo Jumper, I make it a point to either have local DZ info on hand to distribute to interested parties... or at least give the SKYDIVE phone number... and USPA info. And encourage all other demo jumpers to do the same! Quick comment on your "Apples to Oranges" comment Paul... It's an accurate analogy, but not a true one. By that I mean, when this whole issue came up I started doing a lot of research and was absolutely dumbfounded to find that an Air Show pilot pays less than 1/10th the premium I do for the same coverage!! A lot of questions I have concerning our present coverage have been side stepped and ignored... The company the USPA is currently talking to, I had contacted 4 months prior... Just within the past two weeks have they finally gotten the past claim info that I have been trying to gather since before the last BOD meeting. The representative I spoke with, who is very aviation savvy... thought our Demo insurance will in all likelihood be 1/2 what it currently is. There are several issues under the scope and I for one am wondering WTF is going on here. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  23. QuoteI don't think the jumper was but I think the woman he landed on was... *** No...I don't think so... She was trying to sue the jumper...the week... everybody in Fla. because she couldn't pay her hospital bills. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  24. QuoteHow about the one at Bike week in Daytona a year or two ago that had a guy hook into a woman in the crowd and tore her up pretty badly? *** If I recall... That guy WASN't insured. BTW... He hit a waitress holding a tray full of beer.... Talk about screwing up every possible way!!! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~
  25. QuoteIt's a LOT easier for the military teams to do stuff than the civilian teams -- at least that's been our experience out here *** True. No doubt in part because they believe the military teams to be more qualified than civilian teams. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~