vision

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ome people seem to never learn their lessons. Like for instance, people who have been banned and create sock puppets to get around them.

Those people should probably find somewhere else to hang out.

The beauty of the internet is that sometimes the more you disagree with someone the more educating and interesting it is to hang out.

Some people never change while others do. It is interesting to watch.

How boring life would be if we all agreed eh.

What size did you first order and what size did you change to and change back from?

What do you jump now?

I first ordered a 74, then changed to 72, then jumped a 72 and then changed to a 69 (hybrid)...

I ordered mine even before they announced the count down...

After demoing one I 'needed' to order immediately.

Have you jumped one?

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going forward, I think you've probably learned that there IS a special relationship that riggers have with skydiving stores and that their services are not considered part of the overhead and mark-up costs of the price of the rig.

With all due respect, it has been clearly pointed out that the rigger could actually get paid their full $60 (or whatever it was) with the circa $1400 (@20%) mark up that the gear store obtained from the full retail sale.

or not.

I don't think that lesson needed to be leaned, the OP already acknowledged this.

Sometimes the rigger is the gear store owner, sometimes the rigger is on a salary and will be paid even if there is nothing to do (not that often however), this bares no reflection on the customer bargaining for a sweetener.

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I have been known to be just as excited about the box the thing comes in as the thing itself. My cat shares this obsession with me. We both enjoy a nice box.

I like to get all excited over a nice box with my thing too...

Pussy boxes are very exciting with your thing in them.

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You don't have to get hostile or defensive

I have seen nothing but rational discussion from the OP and the only hostility seems to have come from individuals claiming he was being completely unreasonable such as yourself.

Would you care to re post something the OP has said that resembles hostility?

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Just like you asked for a free reserve pack job and when somebody said no, you got all hot and bothered and started complaining about it to complete strangers on the internet. So much so you've dug a little bit of a hole for yourself here.

My advise would be to stop digging.

Rather condescending don't you think?

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judging by the logic in this thread we're now saying it's okay for the UPS guy not to get paid.

Exactly,

Interesting thread, it really shows how people like to act like they are superior citizens on the internet to gather some kind of personal reward.

I believe if you had of asked before you purchased the whole shabang that you would have got the pack job. Because they had already got the money out of you and knew you 'could afford' new gear, that you would likely buy the reserve too.

There is nothing wrong with bargaining for a better deal.

As a previous business owner, we had a policy of only offering discounts on certain thresholds. For a gear store your purchases in the top dollar range and getting people to continue to make such purchases should be in their best interests.

Even if you are small fry compared to some of their customers they should not make you feel out of line for asking, especially if they want you to continue shopping there, or if they want any of your friends or comrades to do the same. They obviously did.

It seems the response you received was less than professional. Even if they said no and had a policy not to discount, ever... they should have at least been polite about it and apologised (even if they do not mean it). Anyone that has worked in service or retail in a successful business should know this.

I have not heard you bitching like some have implied, you simply asked is people thought it was acceptable or not. And you have given rational replies that a few do not agree with.

After reading most of the thread that is going around in circles... I suggest you name the retailer and let the readers decide whether to take their business there or not.

I would not.

Many people read and do not reply, and when a bandwagon is started like this, people are far less likely to support you and 'the gang' will attack them also for doing so. Nobody likes being attacked by the gang.

Call me shallow, but I like being wooed over when I spends thousands of dollars, just like I was willing to do when customers of mine were spending thousands of dollars with me.

Bad reviews are the unfortunate response to poor service, those I avoided with a passion.

The retailer was definitely in within their rights to refuse any sort of discount, and they were also within their rights to make condescending implications.

How you respond is also up to you.

Retailers take about 10-30% commission on gear sales...

Do the math.

I think they are being super conservative with lead times as to not piss anyone off with late delivery, this is not official by any means just an observation.

I ordered mine about 5-6 weeks ago and was told there would be a 20-25 week waiting time.

I was told yesterday that it will be ready in about 3 weeks as it is already cut and reinforced.

Definitely worth the wait.

Hi,

Dave was not really a great example as he had a guts, but was otherwise a solid guy, all his extra weight was there.

I did not have a long look through all the videos but found Lissette by glancing at the thumbnails, I could tell she has a 'softer' bottom.

Why could I tell? because the buckles were about 25cm above her shoulders, screenshot attached.

She was obviously reasonably fit, her bottom was not that large and she could lift her legs easily enough probably because you positioned the hips well and she was reasonably fit.

Some people are not and they will sink into the harness more than Lissette did.

Nobody can tell me that there needs to be this much space in the harness, and when they hang low like that they can be much more prone to injuring themselves.

about 2-3 inches taken from the back diagonals and 2-3 inches from the main lift web while attaching in the plane would have had lissette sat much more nicely in the harness and her bottom a few inches higher off the ground.

This is how I would do it anyway.

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I see way too many TI's tightening the harness to excess prior to exit. Then complain because their student goes fetal. This is gear fear in my opinion.

While I half agree with you, I somehow find it hard to believe that you will crank the harness into a large woman's thighs (for example) when you put the harness on.

I have come across a couple of die hard 'don't do any adjustments in the plane' types and honestly I am usually horrified when they come into land with some larger people.

Just doing the arching position on exit is enough for the harness to 'sink into fat' and then leaving the harness loose.

Can you please post a picture of you coming into land with a person with fat legs please so we can see what I am talking about.

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We are working on better presentation methods for sure. I'm a dedicated resource in this area now.

In that case I will also point out that I agree with whoever suggested that the hips junctions of the harness should be forward of center for larger people also... For everybody!

This helps them lift their legs for landing.

When someone connects the customer and tightens the side attachments, the hip junctions then end up rear of the hips (if donned like UPT suggests) and the belly band is usually loosened further due to it digging into their fat guts.

The technique suggested in the photos seems like poor technique for these reasons and amending this should be considered for the benefit of all the 'larger' people out there.

The harnessing on the ground should anticipate where the straps will be after being attached and tightened (and loosened again in relation to the belly band) and where they will be once people have sunk into the harness after opening...

It looks to me as if the harnessing demonstrated in the video and pictures assumes this positioning will be the same while in freefall and under parachute.

It most definitely is not.

Great to see this is a liquid thing and UPT is adapting to the experiences out in the field.

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I thought it rather clear they are 64's.
The detail of which version of 64's is the real question IMO.

Agreed, but this makes you wonder why the BBC claim T 72's

It shows they know nothing and will believe anything they are told/decide to claim if it fits their story they are pushing.

I do not believe this is a simple mistake. there are very few T72's in Ukraine... All T64's originated in Ukraine and are very common there.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27815441

Now the white phosphorus? There has been no discussion of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLizHCJDB6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68qmaUg5o4M#t=109

Ignore the western 'experts' suggesting that these are T72's.

Any layman such as myself can do about 5 mins research and discover these experts are nothing but shills trying to create a false story.

look at the wheels, the turret and the exhaust on a side view. Though the Nato confirmation you posted only states T64's the BBC are claiming T72's which Ukraine only has a few of.

In Crimea there were quite a Few T64's these could also have been shifted.

The T64 was scrapped by Russia in 2013.

The one tank photographed supposedly in Ukraine could easily be Ukraine government tank that the separatists have captured.

The others are in Russian Territory.

The rebel forces in Ukraine have gained a lot of equipment from the Ukraine government and also Ukrainian military personnel have defected, in some cases this could include the changing of hands of certain equipment.

The only T64 factory is in Ukraine... and the Ukraine military has about 3000 of them...

Kindly explain how a T64 being in Ukraine is evidence of Russia sending equipment over the border?

This reminds me of the WMD bullshit.

If Russia was to attack, they would likely use current and more effective equipment and not 30 year old junk that they have since stopped using and training with.

The Russian flag is flown by the rebel forces.

^ yes!

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So provide an unbiased news source for your information?

All the news on that incident I've seen says it was shot down by Pro-Russian Ukrainian separatists. Not the Ukrainian government which you seem to be suggesting, but the pro-Russian troops who have been armed by Russia.

Of course the Aircraft was shot down by 'pro Russian separatists'. Amazon was suggesting that it was Russia.

'Other' Aircraft were dropping bombs and what appears to be white phosphorus on those in the east. Is self defense not an option in war?

It is clear that those that are referred to as 'pro Russian separatists' are not in favor of Kiev's new regime and feel an attachment to Russia, this does not make them Russia.

This is a civil war with Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians.

Suggesting Russia is arming them however is not really truthful as there is no evidence that this is the case.

If there was evidence of this it would be all over the news. A that information is in favor of the western medias rhetoric.

It is also suggested that Russia has breached the boarder of Ukraine which is also not truthful, in fact one Ukranian armored vehicle was left deserted well within the Russian border.

Russia does not stand to gain from this conflict, the west does, in theory. In the end however the west stands to lose a great deal with the conflict if it does not meet it's objectives... the west are not very good at meeting their (publicly announced) objectives.

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Why? If you adjust the MLW and rear diagonals first, you run the risk of the leg strap junction being too high or too low, and then either ignoring it, or having to readjust the harness.

This could be argued for doing them first also. The whole reason I do the torso first is to have the hips in the correct position before tightening the leg straps. Our spines, shoulders and hips are less malleable than our buts and thighs. Especially on larger people.

As you said the end result is what is important. making a one size fits all procedure does not work for everybody.

I think the real issue is that many UPT examiners do not provide adequate training on the harnessing because it seems they too have not been provided adequate training.

I think there should be more emphasis on what a bad technique is, and how to avoid it.

Far too many people have the hips too far back and a long belly band... these people also have the most people passing out and throwing up. Some of these people are UPT examiners.

Also too many people have the belly band and back strap too low which also has the same result and is why I think doing the leg straps first is a bad idea. But this could also be done if it is done in the reverse order as well.

As much as there are different shaped and sized students, there are also different sized instructors.

For the small instructor, they will need the hook further down the back and taller one will not for example.

One size does not fit all when it comes to harnessing.

When one has experience they should be able to make a very small adjustment to the harness from the past jump and it should almost be fitting.

What I tend to see is people undoing the entire harness completely even if the next passenger is much smaller than the previous one.

For me it is far too easy to look at the next passenger assess what adjustments need to be made if any, hang the harness on and make it fit them in the torso first and then do the leg straps last without them having to do anything. Without all this crap dangling down in my way while I do it.

In over 4500 tandems I have only ever had 2 people throw up and they were large fat people (that already had their legs up on landing due to harnessing technique that is contrary to what UPT suggests).

I have only had one sleeper and that was a hungover Irish guy on a strong system.

For some people these are a weekly or even daily issue.

The Russians started it?



LOL

You go back to CNN and continue as you were.

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and today they shot down an Il-76 with 49 Ukranians on it.

Well I guess they ( the people of east Ukraine that are being killed by their own government) are tired of being killed by airstrikes.

You think Russia shot down the aircraft?

I think you actually need to lay off the CNN...

I am not butthurt and back then I was less into politics so did not have a handle on the situation. That is also the past.

You call a couple of thousand people genocide while you country has killed over a million in the past couple of decades.

You really do have a twisted grasp on reality.

Russia has been quite reasonable with Ukraine and Ukraine have acted like children, as have the US, the EU and NATO.

It is clear through what is portrayed in the media (and more importantly what is not), what the stance is on the matter from the west.

You go ahead and arm terrorists in Syria and other countries while claiming to fight them in other countries.

I take it you condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, that in itself explains a lot about you.

I do not condone any country or individual hurting one another.

Using Russia's violent past be it for offence or defense is a very poor way to support provoking them.

Do you like death?

You obviously are a beating the war drums yourself.

be careful what you wish for.

LOL,

So you choose a personal attack (however mild) over any real content because you are compelled to say something but cannot actually refute what I have said.

Go back to CNN (your bunker).

You obviously condone the use of white phosphorus on civilians, and civilians of the very same country that used it.

Among many other atrocities.

How very nice of you.

should just get one from the spammer that is selling fake ones all over this website....

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4644294;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

So now Nato want to arm Ukraine, which by the way is not a member of NATO.

Ukraine have been dropping white phosphorus on its own civilians and this has not been acknowledged by the west, let alone condemned.

It seems any amount of war crimes are allowed by Ukraine on their own people.

Then there are the people in this forum that pretend to be politically aware but are ignoring this subject.

This is escalating very quickly and I find it is very bizarre that none of you seem to be the slight bit interested. I read a lot of what you all post about in the neighboring threads and I cannot understand how this is not interesting to any of you?

Or is it that you lot are not politically aware at all and simply let the establishment feed you the 'news' that they want you to see?

I do not expect the US or UK media would have the footage of the Ukranian military killing innocents. That would not help the NATO objective.

Russia s being provoked into War and when they bite, I suspect you will all be very interested, very quickly.

They have a waiver, will be interesting to see if it stands up... they have to sign and become a member of the APF...

I agree that this guy is an ass for suing...

we all take our chances..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/the-amazing-survival-tale-of-thrillseeking-melbourne-man-brad-guy-who-leapt-from-14000-feet-and-had-his-parachute-and-reserve-both-fail/story-fni0fiyv-1226954611778

Made it a link for you.

You are not expected to do anything, typically you will be asked to assume the exit position as you were trained.

You may not know what has happened before you are already under your reserve.

Malfunctions like the one there in Lillydale are very, very rare.

I am supposed to, but I find the sigma manual is the wrong way.

I do not see the point in adjusting the leg straps first. Getting the customer to hold the hips in place is unnecessary and promotes ill fitting and uncomfortable harness fitting.

How many tandems do these people actually do when they make up this type of thing?

The leg straps are what I do last.

I can make the entire harness fit the torso of the passenger snugly and comfortably first and then finish off by tightening the leg straps.

It makes no sense to do them first.

I wish UPT would revisit the harnessing technique as some DZ's want to do it by the book exactly.

I have also noticed that UPT examiners do some of the worst harnessing techniques and are some of the worst tandem masters (not all, but many).

I think this really needs addressing. Customers get ill and pass out from ill fitting harnesses and there is a better way to do it than what the manual suggests.

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Plastic, it is the new carbon Crazy... maybe they will now make a legit (FTP like) camera helmet.

LOL, FTP helmets are going to become pretty much obsolete unless you are using a red or Imax camera.

Why would that cater for that market.

Cameras are getting much smaller.

FTP with only one full sized camera (SLR) and a go pro for example looks silly.