Fuppylodders

Hi guys, Just wanted to give a quick update just so you know I haven't ignored you all! Just wanted to say a big thank you for all the information posted here, and the guidance, links, suggestions, and recommendations. It has enabled me to progress on my project (one way or another) and I do believe I have enough info to carry it through to completion (again, one way or another). So, again, thanks guys! Kind regards, Sam

Thank you RiggerLee, this is again, exactly the kind of information I am after. I was able to tell the size of the rocket from the ladder (looked like a ladder?) next to it. Certainly impressive! My problem is I always aim (too) high and have to work my way back down to earth... so, yeah I was kind of secretly hoping to produce something that may have had some sort of skeleton to the idea... but I know what I am like, so I will settle for what I can realistically achieve given the timescale. Being in the UK, it'll be an expensive phonecall! So I may just email them and ask to speak to Mark saying who sent me.

Hey guys, sorry I am only just popping my head in now, I've had a busy weekend. It's great to see the responses that are coming, as well as the different ideas, and the knowledge that is coming out that I would not have been able to find/understand otherwise! Yes, I have already exhausted my questions with BRS, they were the first company I spoke to. Already not knowing anything much about parachutes, my questions were more directed around theories of ideas rather than the parachutes themselves, so I can't say I noticed what you (RiggerLee) mentioned of them. However, the answers I did get led me to believe that ram air recovery systems isn't impossible, but very possibly possible (does that even make sense?). Unfortunately, I'm not getting much of a response from other parachute companies, hence me finding somewhere I can converse to ask opinions and such (here)! Currently reading the website mrosparky linked (I'll get to the others as well ), a very interesting read, and no doubt helpful in allowing me work out things I couldn't before. I do not personally believe it would be 'too' difficult in implementing a guidance system, automated or controlled through semi automated/wireless receivers controlled by the pilot, as they are already available. So the technology is already there, perhaps just some tweaking/adjusting/advancement may be required to adapt it to an aircraft. Should I need to, I will look at an even smaller aircraft than a Learjet85, until I find a suitable candidate... or not... @RiggerLee That video... the sound of the rocket going up! Then seeing the rocket parachute into vision like that, something comical about seeing it glide in from the side of the screen like that, had a chuckle watching it! Reminds me of Thunderbird 3 That clearly was guided, but was it automated, or was it controlled by a person with a receiver? (I read something about software, so I assume it was automated?) Do you think it may be possible to use a slider to reduce the opening of the canopy by so much, alongside using a drogue chute to help slow it down enough that allows the opening of the ram-air chute at a safe speed?

Really not worth mentioning... but to humour you: 1) Losing pens; how to make them easily found once lost (situation sort of like where you know you had it 5 minutes ago and can't remember for the life of you where it has gone/been left) 2) Marking out a straight line accurately along something that is typically longer than 1 meter such as the edge of a door, length of plasterboard etc in one go without having to mark individual segments then join the dots. 3) Preventing spillages on the floor/toilet seat when people's 'aim' isn't good/can't be bothered/too drunk to care. So, as I said, not really worth mentioning @mjosparky With regards to ram air recovery, I don't personally think it is as out of the question as you believe it to be. I can't really say why, as I don't know how much is common knowledge, or how much 'they' privileged me with being told... but progression is being looked at, is what I will say. @Boogers/Mark/Sincy I had looked at the SRB recovery system early on but pretty much instantly dismissed it due to the size of them/weight they would take up themselves. But yes, still very interesting! @GD64 I had thought a similar thing, multiple chutes, then multiple chutes in stages (both regarding the 747 initial idea stage), as first off, the 747 is much larger so could 'potentially' accommodate multiple chutes. (I actually read somewhere during my research that it had been proposed as an idea by some company of the possibility of multiple chutes in a 747 that the pilot could actually control, but I believe they probably fell onto the exact issues that seem glaringly obvious, even to me) So, starting with a rear chute similar to the spin recovery to stabilise it, then one to come from near the front to stabilise the aircraft horizontally, then 1 from each wing to slow the descent down even more. Problem with this is I think (assuming there was any potential possibility at all) that it might take too long for the entire system to reach its final descent stage that it probably just wouldn't work in time (but then situational occurrence...) However, trying to fit something similar to this, in a Learjet, then requires me to need information on the internal structure design in order to ascertain where the mounting points could be, how many mounting points would be needed, then working out a system of chutes that could have potential, working out the size drogue chute required (perhaps even a ribbon chute instead maybe?) I get lost in suddenly needing so much information that half I can't get due to probably needing access to the aircraft's publications and the other half needing some sort of testing that I can't physically carry out. But then I need to keep pushing myself on this to get some sort of result. Even if it turns out to be a 'it just isn't possible from the information I have gathered', but that information needs to be pretty definite with something to back it up rather than me simply saying 'so yeah, it's just not going to work.' I don't know... The stuff I'm putting myself through to become an engineer! I know it'll be worth it! *edit* Thank you Sincy, will do. (I'm in the UK, and it is now 01:40, time to get some rest... this project hurts my brain

Hi again, thank you very much for the quick replies! OK, @mrubin, Ram air canopy requires less surface area (as far as i know) due to generating a bit of lift compared to the simple round/drag canopy. So there is potential to have a similar sized canopy which could carry a larger load? I did not know about the spin recovery parachute, an impressive piece of kit! Although this wouldn't necessarily solve the problem if an aircraft had a catastrophic failure of a control surface or some other situation which would render aerodynamics almost unflyable. But thank you, I can look at this in more depth with regards to my research! @riggerrob With regards t using ram air parachute, I don't think the main issue is the steering of it, but the potential damage caused by the forward speed upon impact of the ground... so I have found out You are right Rob, it is a classic example, but unfortunately I was sort of pushed into choosing this as the subject of my project and so literally had no idea how to proceed and went head first into it I had found that Nylon was the most common and preferred use, but I have also seen other materials available. I didn't know which of these are the newest and possibly have potential to overtake Nylon as 'the new best thing to use for material'. I have heard that the ripstop is created by the type of weave it has which hugely prevents rips occurring, however I did not know if this was able to be incorporated into other materials as I know they all have their own fibre properties, but then again, there should be some it can be incorporated into quite easily if it is just the weave itself that gives this effect? The opening shock increasing is something I've been pondering how to reduce upon something traveling roughly somewhere between 350-500 mph (asking a hell of a lot) but I might have to reduce the plane type to a turbo prop small passenger plane upon further research. I was told that it would make a good project if I ended up having to work my way down the sizes of aircraft until I found one that had potential for it to be realistically possible. @Mark You do raise a good point, about designing a parachute that can operate within low/high speeds/altitude. I have been recommended to find a particular type of 'situation' and stick with that, as there are soo many variables in which the aircraft could 'fail' at, that it is almost impossible to design one safety device to cover all possibilities. It appears you do know your stuff with regards to weights/sizes of chutes and loadings, would you happen to know the formula required to work out the surface area required? Or perhaps where I can find it? I can honestly say I have tried and tried and I just can't find anything that helps with regards to this that it worries me I might have to leave this part out of the design process, which in all honesty, should be included with something like this. This most certainly is stretching me, but I am determined to get some sort of results! *Edit* Sorry I haven't replied to everyone, I wrote this a while ago and seems I forgot to press the post button while leaving the window open in the background

Hi guys, Im an employed aeronautical engineering apprentice attending college. I was given a project which involves me finding a problem, and then solving it. Well, after nearly choosing 2 very simple ones, I ended up choosing probably one of my most difficult problems so far... An aircraft with a terminal fault (ie: it is definitely coming down to earth to crash!) So, I have done research as much as I can, but without being able to talk to someone in the know about it, my head is starting to get into swirls of confusion and 'random information overload'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not stupid (well, sometimes make a fool of myself :P) but going from knowing absolutely nothing about parachutes to managing to do a report on having a suitable one fitted into an aircraft is no easy thing! What I have learned is that currently, there are already light aircraft with round canopy parachutes fitted as recovery systems and that they do actually work. So, I'm aiming bigger. I was looking at Boeing 747 type of bigger, but that is FAR beyond my learning capabilities as well as information available that allows me to progress at any sort of level with regards to 747 internal structure design. So, I've scaled it down to a Learjet 85. With using ram air type canopy (potentially offset-doubled up such as like a slotted fowler flap formation on commercial aircraft, the upper flap regenerating the airflow faster helping the lower flaps airflow to give even more lift). I know that Nylon is a material that is largely used, having ripstop capability, and that there are various porosities available. I know that there are other materials such as: Silk Cotton Canvas Rayon Nylon Teflon Terylene Nomex F-111 Kevlar Spectra Vectran Zylon ZPX I know a little about each, but with regards to which has zero porosity AND ripstop capabilities while being high in strength, low in weight and packing volume is evading me. As well as what materials are used for the suspension lines, what circumstances the above mentioned materials would be used over others... how the canopies are cross braced exactly... There are more questions but at the moment, these are the more important ones. Any help you guys could give me would be hugely appreciated as 'internet search and learning' is getting me to a point where I'm slowing down and getting too deep with questions where I can't really find exact answers for without having more questions to clarify things... if you understand what I mean? Kind regards, Sam PS. Another hugely important question: I know there is a formula available which allows one to find out the surface area required to make a round canopy for a given weight, but I can not find a formula to give the area/size of a ram air type canopy. Such frustration at this!