Doug_Davis

Chill dude. I was asking. I am learning. Im absorbing knowledge. I wasnt trying to be a pontificating newbie. But BillVon's response captured what I meant. Although I did notice that the USPA recommendations for flying camera for a tandem jump are lower then what some manufacturers recommend for someone lurking a tandem jump.

In all seriousness though arent these rules mainly to protect the manufacturers from yet another lawsuit? Because accidents caused by newbies who cant fly, can happen at anytime when jumpers are within close proximity. I mean look at what happened to Cliff Schmucker last year. As a non-TI, I guess the only advantage being a solo flier gives you is that it would be easier to get out of someone's way prior to impact, than it would be for a TI with a student strapped to them?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4615256#4615256

The internet is hard work!

When I resigned in 2008 NY Daily News interviewed me. They filed a FOIA request directly with the city, rather than going through the state as the reporter in the story you cited did. The figures they got were closer to 50% DP (decline to prosecute) rates. And New York deserves its bashing. You know why I walked off the job? I am a combat vet. I swore an oath to upheld and protect the constitution of this country. I was not about to lie under oath in order to make illegal (as determined by the US Supreme Court but still practiced in NYC) quota numbers every month just to make some higher ranking officer happy. I saw men and women torn part, when faced with having to move from day shift (where they could see their kids and significant others) to night shift, because they werent meeting quota each month. So they did whatever it took to make those numbers. Including creating arrests and lying under oath. I saw one of my former partners in the 41 Precinct THROWN IN A MENTAL HOSPITAL, illegally by the deputy chief of the Bronx Patrol Division, because he recorded evidence of such illegal quota enforcement by patrol supervisors for the press and Internal Affairs. They kidnapped him from his own apartment (in Manhattan) and put him in a mental hospital (in the Bronx), and claimed he was suicidal. You have no idea the shit that goes on in that city. Unless you've walked a beat there, you cant possibly know.

I think you solved the mystery right there. Its the extra benjamins.

Did you miss my last post to you? Have you not read Jan's publicly stated reason as to why there were two investigations? Its beginning to look like you are purposefully ignoring that information, since you keep repeating the same points.

Just FYI to all, in case you didnt know the borough District Attorneys are elected in New York City. They are political positions. And nothing helps you get elected like being tough on crime in a highly publicized case. This isnt about what these four guys did. This is about a DA and his ladder climbing ADA getting free press in the paper in what has become a fairly publicized case. If the press hadnt picked this story up these guys would have been pled out to misdemeanor criminal trespassing charges. Hell its public knowledge that the DA in the Bronx only prosecutes half of the people arrested there. Like completely drops all charges, against 50% of the arrests.

Okay maybe Im misunderstanding you. But you said.... Which to me makes it sound as if a normal above board investigation was completed following proper procedure, with no irregularities. And Jan claims that at least initially... So unless its normal business for the President to ignore the rules on how investigations are carried out within the USPA, it doesnt sound like this was looked into "just like it is every other time." So your statement and Jan's statement seems to be mutually exclusive. It appears as if either you are wrong or she is. Things were either done normally and by the book, or someone (the president) attempted to ignore procedure until board members lodged their complaints. Which is it? Or maybe Im just not fully understanding what it is you are saying, so Im just trying to clarify and understand.

My point is why is this Winstock thing being handled differently? Why would a member if the BOD purposely break with the way things are always handled and create all this drama but remain silent all the other times when every factor was significantly worse? Regardless of ones opinion of what happened with Winstock, surely they must realize on some level that something ELSE is also taking place... I mean in simple terms some office holder had an incident and it was looked into just like it is every other time that happens - the judgement of a panel of peers found no reason for the axe - again just like in the past. You keep saying this. As if every protocol in the in the manual on how to do investigations was followed. Yet you have had at least one board member state publicly right here in this thread that this isnt true. That the President attempted to take matters into her own hands and bypass the DG and investigation process, and that this is what caused the beginnings of the problems with BOD members. So since you keep ignoring that or dismissing it, let me flat out ask. Do you think Jan is lying? Because it appears that is what you are implying.

Yes, this is true that it "can" be done. Check out how that's worked out in past history at the USPA. Swatting flies with a pencil might be easier. Side note, kudos for reading the manual. That puts you at least 10 jumps ahead of most people. Would your opinions be swayed if proof existed of who sent the original "anonymous" email? Asked differently, what would it take for you to step back and take a concerned/factual vs angry/uninformed view, of the entire situation? Would you be more angry if you were to learn the situation is being manipulated? I think Normiss and Top already covered it in their replies.

But... why hasn't Rich resigned or the USPA not suspended him from his duties as S&TA chairman? Winstock _did_ resign. USPA doesn't have a mechanism for suspending a BOD member. If they did, there'd be a BOD member or two swinging in the wind too. Actually thats not accurate. Under Section 1-2.3 of the USPA governance and bylaws, on page 10, all committee chairs are appointed and can be removed by the president. The president's power to do so is restated in section 1-2.4 on page 12. It does not take a BOD vote. So his committee chair position as chair of the S&T committee could have been easily suspended or removed. http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Man_GovMan.pdf Additionally the BOD can vote to impeach and remove BOD members at anytime.

Can some Mod please ban this guy? Enough with the lies, personal attacks, and just plain weird PM's. Its getting stalkerish. I wasnt dismissed or fired from the NYPD. You have issues dude. And should probably seek professional help. Which is probably why you try to pass yourself off as a Native American. PS- Thanks for nitpicking my post and correcting my use of "someone" with "DG", because you know that made such a huge difference.

This is why I like you so much. As for everything else you said, I cant find much to argue with other than to point out: Again it comes down to perception. Your perception is an inquiry was done not once but twice. It appears there are at least a minimum of two board members whose perception it is, that the first one, which was not done in accordance with the published rules or guidelines, was improper. Again it all comes down to perception. Which is why in an investigation, particularly one involving a board member who is ALSO a DZO (so this could affect his income) you do stuff by the book and do it above board. Didnt they hire some board member's girlfriend or sister or something as PR or communications director? She should have known this shit, its called Crisis Communications. There are whole PR firms dedicated to it.

Jim, You said... Given what Jan, a BOD member, has publicly stated: And... Is that not a fair assessment? That someone attempted to sweep the issue under the rug? If the regular investigation and disciplinary measures werent followed? In fact would it not be fair to suggest this this entire "scandal" is the fault of the executive staff and executive committee of the USPA? Had they rather had a non-biased (someone not connected with the board or a friend of Rich's) senior S&TA conduct the investigation, followed their normal rules and then publicly published the incident report, just like they would do for anyone else, then this never would have inflamed to the level it is now. And yes I understand that this has happened in the past according to allegations, that other members based on seniority or popularity had issues dismissed, but that doesnt excuse this nor make it any less stupid. People smell "blood in the water", as you put it, because the public perception is that things were handled differently because of his board status. When they should have done things by the book, to show everyone the process is above board and works. And since it wasnt people are naturally curious and assume the worst. Perception is reality~ Lee Atwater

Then what happened? Because several jumpers from the DZ, friends of the injured, and others have substantiated that this is in fact what happened. In this and the original incident thread. Otherwise all your doing is adding to the rumors you claim to be fighting against. Well, then what did? I really don't understand why that's so hard to answer. +1

Thank you for clearing up the whole "loyal customer" thing. I read this thread in one go and had to hold my tongue really hard to get to the end after reading the exchange earlier about "earning" the status of loyalty by building report as a customer. That is pants-on-head backwards. It is not desirable to be a loyal customer. It is not something you work at. It is desirable to have loyal customers... as a business. It's something the business works at. Loyal customers are a continued source of revenue and advertising. I agree with others that have said the OP simply asked at the wrong time and, possibly, in the wrong way. If the other person countered with a comment about how it couldn't be done because riggers don't work for free then that was a dick head move regardless of when the question was asked. +1

You should have gone with TSO-D. The Skydiving Outlet- Deland. I got some sweet discounts from Arlo. Also awesome customer service!

Just like the posters name, this is a "crock" of BS. Please be careful when listening to new age quacks and make sure their claims are backed up by science. The World Health Organization did not "conduct research" or determine that RO water is unhealthy. A quack (Kozisek) from the Czech Republic, sent a report to them while attending a conference in Europe, it was posted on their website as most reports are, and now the same quack is attempting to claim that means it was their research and they support it. Here is an actual peer reviewed study, by American and Canadian doctors, published by the National Institute of Health regarding mineral content in drinking water. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495189/ Their conclusion is that if you dont have a significant source in your diet of potassium, calcium and sodium then the minerals you get from your water could be important. For most people these needs are met through dietary consumption, if they eat a healthy diet, but if you are eating the stereotypical obese American fast food diet then your drinking water could be an important source of calcium and potassium in your diet. And just for good measure the Canadian Water Quality Association also debunks the report by the Czech guy and the Russian research he is involved in as well. http://www.cwqa.com/_faq/misinformation.inc.pdf

You mean, "If I knew all that he implies he knows, but won't say outright..." +1

Jeff nailed all my wants as well. More protection is key. I like my G3 but I can easily squeeze it like a melon in my hands.

SL, $free, in fact they told me I would make $110 more a month on jump status.

Agreed. That said, there is a WORLD of difference between issuing a TI certificate, which is what the USPA does and hiring an employee, which is what a DZ does. What promise5 was suggesting was the USPA/Tandem Examiner/chain be the responsible party as opposed to the DZ itself. In my view, the responsible party should be the one responsible for the actual hiring. Quade, Yeah I see the difference and for the most part agree with you. However in comparison what she is advocating isn't unheard of. The American bar association isn't a government entity nor are they typically the employer, but to be admitted to the bar and be employable as an attorney you must meet their standards to include a background check and moral standards. So in reality other professional organizations have done it and enforced it. Not that I'm saying the USPA should. I agree its better implemented at the employer level. Of course if the TI in question opens their own DZ.....

You are right. Even Match.com got sued and is finally running every member through the national sex offender registry after losing the law suit. http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/04/18/match.rape.lawsuit/ Even the famous actress Gabrielle Union has sued a former employer for "being negligent in providing a safe environment". She won. There are HUNDREDS of such cases, if one wishes to Google it. Like this one where a hospital hired an employee who was fired from his previous job for inappropriate contact with female patients. The hospital was sued after he raped a paralyzed patient. http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2008/08/11/rape-victim-sues-employer-of-attacker/ As a business owner with two retail stores and a regional training center I do background checks on every single employee who works for me. These days if you're an employer/business owner and you dont, you are putting yourself at risk of being stolen from or opening yourself up to potential liability. Its crazy not to.

You have no idea who I have or havent spoken with. But watching your brain explode every time I post is amusing. Since you havent responded in the same way to anyone else who has posted the same opinions as myself, it pretty apparent this is some personal dislike of me. Thats fine, keeps me amused.