Apollo87

Well, everyone at my dz told me I'd be fine on that pulse 190 by 50-60 jumps. Everyone... instructors and S&TA included. The ONLY people that have told me otherwise are on the friggin Internet. But, fortunately, I have tremendous respect for many of the people on here, especially yourself and I have a backup plan, if you and other extremely experienced ppl said I wasn't going to be able to safely fly my rig under 100 jumps. I believe Skydiving.com will actually let you rent pretty much any rig, main & res combo for a decent price. That's what I would do. I've already lost 3lbs in 3 days, so far so good!

Idk? 75 more jumps? 100? Maybe more, maybe less. It depends on my finances. "Supposedly" they're going to give me a $5/hr raise here pretty soon, otherwise I'm going elsewhere. I'm the IT administrator and they pay me as the medical records guy. They just seemed to forget to pay me accordingly when the job description changed... Anyways, I'm hoping 6-8 months. It all depends on when I can finish the checklist and get down to a reasonable weight to get my wingloading below 1.2 on the pulse and 1.3 on the Optimum. Hopefully, even less than that. @Goonies kid, you're right. It would have been more appropriate to wish some black death on him. Or hope he was an organ donor assuming he's going to kill himself on a motorcycle... When someone asks me to die, I figured I'd be a little more polite and just wish some infidelity. aaaand I don't work at McDonald's. But it works out great. I don't do shit and get to surf the web all day and get paid 10.50 an hr; 35 when working on computers. For now, it'll do. And stop talking about my grandma. The fact that I have one that likes me and buys me shit, obviously bothers you. Maybe if you were nicer to your family, they'd buy you shit, too. Or maybe they don't like you cuz you're just an asshole

+1 Then there's the old "extreme" sport thing - it can't be an "extreme" sport unless it involves risk of a fall from height. For "ultimate" it must involve fire. It's why I never got ultimate Frisbee. Where's the freaking fire? I guess it beats the hell out of regular frisbee? What about Ultimate Extreme Frisbee? Jump out of a burning airplane OR with your helmet on fire, and throw a frisbee as far as you can. Lol. I have to agree with FlyingRhinocerous or whatever his name was about competing against someone for a parachute. That would be epic, but I bet it'd be impossible to get that rig on unless you were a BAMF at freeflying. And the other guy. Fuck... Maybe in flight tug-o-war, instead? That'd be sweet. Anyways, my personal opinion on sports goes like this. It's already been stated, but I personally think a sport should be contact involved (boxing, mma, football, rugby, basketball, roller derby, etc...) Then there's EXTREME sports, where you could possibly/many people do actually die, but you're competing against someone else's time/distance/score (skiing/snowboarding, free climbing, base jumping, skydiving, bull fighting/riding, motorcycle racing, etc...) Then there's competitive hobbies where your chances of getting hurt are slim and dying are pretty much null. Not to mention physical fitness is usually not an aspect, but I'm ignorant to these, like most are to skydiving. (Marksmanship, darts, figure skating, golf, chess, pool, etc..)

word.

Do you have any idea how idiotic that statement is?? How can he spend all his time jumping, when he just spent all his money on a brand new rig, that he can't even jump yet?? Fatalities and serious injuries always begin with bad choices. Usually it's hard to tell when people are making bad choices. Here, it's blindingly obvious. First of all, I put the down payment when I was halfway through AFF, I never stopped jumping. I just saved ALL my extra money for gear. Secondly, you haven't been paying attention since I've taken almost everyone's advice and all the advice from the mods and people with most experience. too. And finally, I am humble until someone wishing death and "terrafirma" on newbies asking questions comes along. Just because we don't have 2000+ jumps, doesn't mean we shouldn't ask f'kin questions that "skygods" already know. I hope you're a lonely bastard. If not, with an attitude like that, I hope your woman fucks someone more worthy and with a bigger dick ;) Or maybe she already has and that's what's made you a soulless prick. Eh, who knows. Maybe, you were born that way, but I'd prefer to care about my fellow skydivers. One day, when I have plentiful knowledge, I'll share it politely and with the assumption they don't deserve to die.

Are you always an ass? That's not funny and I hope you learn a hard lesson one day acting like such a self-righteous dick. You're in serious need of some physical humbling. Or maybe you're a coward and just play the asshole online. Either way, stfu. @uberchris - that's awesome!! Got a pic? I'm über jealous. I always wanted the 848. They sound amazing and I preferred my 600 bc it was more fun to carve turns, but I'd love to drive an 848 or Aprilia some day when I'm rich :P Be careful, but have fun! Life's about living and you've got the idea ;)

Respectfully, I don't think people understand I got the point and the advice has been well received. I agree with you on billvon's statement. There's NOTHING wrong with the 210 rental spectre and that's what I'll be jumping until I can land it within, as Jeff said, within 10 meters of the intended target in different wind conditions. The low turn was jump 11, so I've learned my lesson there and have infinitely more to learn, but I WILL and I can't say that enough. I will get enough jumps under my belt on that spectre until I've mastered it. I'm not in a hurry to get hurt. I bought the rig I wanted because I know it's the one I want. The wait time was supposed to be 2.5 months, but it got here in 2 weeks. So, don't worry. I'm not planning on best case scenarios, I'm going to create the scenario best for me. I can promise you I won't be jumping a 210 Spectre for over a year. I don't mind waiting as long as it takes on rental gear to get to the necessary skill level. I love my rig. It's mine, custom, and will last me a decade if taken care of. This hobby has become everything to me and I'm only here to learn and stay safe. You can't deny that I'll be able to jump my rig safely someday with a 190 main and 176 reserve. I won't have to buy a new reserve. Ever. And I can go to a 170 when that time comes in the rig I love. (Yes I tried on many). I think I jump more than the average person because I don't spend my money on anything else and it's all I look forward too, so getting hurt is the last thing on my list.. My dz just happens to have an incredible amount of ppl w/ under 600 jumps on velo's @ 2.1+ wl I just figured the charts and most advice was incredibly conservative. Just for the record, I started on a 600zx with race mods, no experience, drove around a parking lot for a few hours and then rode the hell out of it for 6 months before getting it stolen and buying a 1000rr for 6months, got that one stolen and gave up bikes in general. ALL the forums said take classes, buy a 250, etc etc... I'm NOT comparing the two sports, but the way people talk to newbies is rarely the way they do things themselves. Correct if I'm wrong here? From that experience, and the aggressive downsizing I regularly see, I rationalized it and I was wrong for doing so. I never had a wreck, btw. I'm also take advice and conservatism infinitely more seriously than in any other sport. I'm not selling my gear, but I will wait until I'm ready to use it however many jumps away that may be and when that day comes, I can take it out of my closet and drive to the DZ because it'll be ready to go & I'll love it

Thank you.

I KNOW I can get back to 195 at the very least. 210 is THE MOST I've ever weighed. Back to 182, mmmmaybe not. I"ll probably put on some muscle because I'm not just doing cardio. I got a little crazy with the black ops2 and polishing off half gallons of ice cream every 2 days. I got depressed and went from one extreme to the other, so the weight thing is almost guaranteed and that makes HUGE difference. Plus the fact that I was stubborn and didn't want to upsize after gaining the weight, I got pretty good on a 210 spectre @ a 1.14 last weekend. Did 4 jumps, stood up 3. the third I couldn't make it back because the pilot dropped me off downwind and figured he knew best about the uppers and I ended up landing crosswind, running it out, and tripping to my knees. Almost stood it up. I'm confident that if I lose the weight, I can pull this off. You're right about #2, though. I bought the container knowing that I'll be piecing my equipment together, not buying it all @ once. My calculations were that it would take me close to 6 months or more to get each item, plus the jumps and I wanted to be conservative, but get a container that would last me for most of my skydiving career. The M4 will fit a 190 down to a 150, and at that time when I was 182, I'd be at the wingloading I am now on my spectre. If I can get back to and maintain ~190 (my usual weight for the last few yrs) or maybe less, I'll be gravy and my hopes were to get into a 170 Safire 2. I love the Safire1 (I've only jumped a Safire, Triathlon, Spectre, Manta, and Sabre). It'll be some time and plenty more jumps. There's pretty much no fkin' way I'll get that stuff in 2 months. I way did the math wrong on that one. I just wanted to know what to keep a look out for on the used items list whilst making my way towards my b&c licenses ;) @Billvon - I think you're totally right, but a 170 really frightens me and I was under the impression a reserve was easier to land than a main. Wellll, I just found out I was wrong, so I'll be busy dieting, exercising, and jumping my @$$ off to get my C license. I can do all of those things on the 210, save the HP front riser turns, but the first time I jumped it I made a 90degree toggle turn @ ~75 feet to get upwind, swooped a good ways and almost stood up. Most importantly, learned a VERY valuable lesson about flat turns which I have gotten great at :D That landing was pulled out of my ass, but sorta counts? I have NO interest in HP landings. And I'll pay close attention to the downsizing checklists. Thanks for the contribition.

Are you saying that you think he should be testing a 170 at around 75ish jumps with a 1.3 WL or did I miss something? Not trolling, I just usually hear people's advice on here being more conservative with their wingloading. I think/hope he means when I get closer to ~75 jumps to demo the pulse 190 and then the optimum 193 to get a feel for it. More than likely that's what I'll do. After I'm super confident on a 190 rental/demo for 50-60 jumps, hopefully I'll be around 150 and I can jump my rig. I know that still maybe a little on the quick side, but I'd like to think I'll get in at least another 50 jumps, maybe more, after that before I have my first cutaway(knock on wood). Even if not, I'll be able to make it down safely. I'll only be jumping in primo conditions for a while. And be close to my C license by the time I Jump it. Who knows. I'll go by how my piloting skills go. I take a canopy course once a month and I jump as often as I can. I haven't started saving for any more gear yet, just paying for jumps, so I'd like to think I'll be close to my C within 4 months and I'm 75% sure I can lose at least 15-20lbs by then, if not more. I lost 20 in 4 weeks, gained 30 in 2, and now I've got 4 months to get back to 190. I'm gonna work my ass off and hope I get there. It's a public forum and you asked a question. He has every right to post. Ignore the thread if you don't like the answers. It doesn't look like your listening to anyone anyway. I've taken everyone's advice. Why don't you try reading the thread? I'm trying to learn something because I'm new and only know what I've been told by my instructors, so thanks for the insults. You're a great help... I'm sure if I, like gooniekid, hijacked your first thread on dz.com asking a question concerning your safety and started belittling you about your finances, told you that you're an idiot, and LOL'd at you when you had 24 jumps and already admitted you were new and just learning, you'd take my advice and be real nice to me. I thought we were supposed to give a $#!T about each other... Do you have anything useful to say or are you just here to argue?

Actually, you did start the obnoxious shit talking. I'd quote you, but the moderator deleted it for being inappropriate. I'm done letting you waste my time. I like to think I'm a nice person, but you bring out the worst in me. I'll avoid you and I'd appreciate it if you did the same for me. And, really, you might try being polite sometime; It's pretty cool.

Oh, I forgot how polite you were. I tried to find the other "ever-so-polite" post, buuuut the mods deleted it for good reason... You should have spent the last 5 months of your milk money getting coached jumps, paying for a canopy course, renting and trying out different rigs. Instead, you got uber excited, begged grandma to foot the bill for a rig (that you don't even know you'll want when the time comes). Perhaps Brian Germain's canopy progression might help you: http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf You're not jumping your said rig until you are 90% confident? Why don't you jump that rig when you are 100% confident? And now you want to cross your fingers, pray to the gods, etc and just rely on luck instead of skill to get through this sport. Can you please tell us which DZ you jump so I can avoid it? You're obviously a hazard to yourself AND OTHERS if you go down this path. You opened this can of worms on yourself bro..not me Seriously. Please leave this thread alone. I'm asking nicely. Try it sometime.

I'm literally one jump away from my A license and finished with AFF. The only reason I'm posting is because this Goonies prick makes unnecessarily rude, subjective comments. He doesn't have ANY jumps and has a shitload of opinions. I stay quiet and read because I'll admit I'm not worthy of offering advice, but I just can't stand this guy and I don't feel he is doing anything good for anyone. I'm just standing up for someone who was excited about a new piece of gear they purchased and this jealous kid has to go off on him. It's not necessary and very unlike the majority of the skydiving community who treat each other like family and care about one another's safety and happiness.

I've already come to the conclusion that I wouldn't be jumping this rig until I'm 90% confident I can fly it under any circumstance. I'm not gonna try to find and fly through a dirt devil, land off in some trees, make a hard low turn to see if I can recover, or fly to another state to land on a slope. There are circumstances that I won't be able to control... Hence the 90%. Even demoing a canopy for 2 weeks would only get me 15 jumps at the most and that's not going to make me the perfect canopy pilot for my pulse OR optimum. I'm just going to get as many jumps as I can under my belt until I know I can land my rig safely. Most importantly, I've got ALL the information I need from plenty of respectable, experienced people. I don't need any more people telling me the same thing. I got more responses than I expected. Unless you aren't trolling and genuinely have a view that hasn't already been stated, thanks, but move on. I got it. Not trying to be rude, but no need to repeat what everyone's already said. I have full coverage insurance, but I value my legs, mobility, and life... I'm new to this. You don't have to be rude. I've been told by the S&TA to do this. I had enough sense to question it, so lay off a bit, mmkay? You just regurgitate information looking for praise or conflict. You have no license? You have no gear? Why don't YOU spend your money on coached jumps, getting a license, canopy courses, and renting rigs before buying the newest "voodoo curv". I'm sorry you don't have a grandma that offered to buy you a birthday present. I didn't have to beg anyone, since it's your business. I've already told you I don't value your opinion. So stop giving it to me. I've already done all of those things except rented gear. I'm spending money on jumps instead of renting gear because I need them and, as far as my gear,I'm not ready for it yet. I gathered that from people with real experience. But thanks for repeating, kid! You're real helpful. Is that enough food for you? Go back under your bridge and troll the next passerby. Ya got me! Good one! Now go bother someone else.

I appreciate the concern, but I just spent every penny I've earned over the last 5 months on a new container and pulse with

Ok, let me backtrack a little bit. Before everyone starts ripping into my S&TA, this is far more about me. The question I first asked him was "What would you prefer if I had to pick between a PDR160 and an optimum 176?"(because I do) I mentioned that I'd be jumping a Pulse 190, but not for at least a few more months or until I was comfortable on it AND I was planning on losing some weight. I mentioned the 176 scared me and he said the PDR would fly straighter in line twists, open faster, and fly more conservatively/safer. He may very well have misunderstood me or overlooked some things, so let's not make this about him; he's always given sound advice and I respect him. I'm just trying to get some other opinions and I reeeeaaalllly like what I'm hearing. I've pretty much got my answer here. I was actually considering Bill's suggestion before that was mentioned, so thanks! I'll definitely consider that. The descent rate on the Spectre frightens me a bit, but 95% of the time, I stand them up because it has great flare power. The reason I bought the Pulse is because I hear it has a far better glide ratio and I'll be better able to judge the timing on my flare. They don't have a 9 cell 210 and I stand up the Safire 230 every time. He wouldn't gain anything from me buying the PD. Lastly, I think I might have gotten a bit carried away with the timing/jump numbers. I'm thinking with the cost of an AAD and now an optimum reserve, I'll be looking @ more like 4-6 months and hopefully closer to 150 jumps. Maybe back to 185lbs? fingers crossed I got wayy more replies than I expected from some incredibly wise folks. Thank you very much! I'll take my sweeet assss time getting into that rig (with an optimum) ;) Blue Skies!

Oh don't worry about my gear, ahem *voodoo curve*, that's on order bro. You're better off worrying about yourself first and your student status. If you would expend 1/4 of the energy you have on getting your license instead of worrying about my gear or my mom's bussom then you might be finished with aff Dude asked what we think so I post what I think....OP didn't say "what do you guys think...only positive input please". So i told OP what I think..it's plain, it's white, it's boring, it has no quick release..i mean OP asked for thoughts. *Ahem*, you don't have gear and you're telling people their shit sucks. Lol. Having a voodoo curv "on order" coming from you, doesn't hold much value. Let's see your "badass" "exciting" helmet! I think his looks fine. It's a hell of a lot better than not having one at all. I finished AFF. Unless you know of a school that has a 23 jump AFF course? Mine was only 7 w/ 7 coached jumps, Einstein. If it was 1/4 as easy and inexpensive as typing a paragraph to call out a troll on his bull$#!t, I think skydivers would be in grave danger. Your feeble-minded comebacks actually made me laugh. I'm ashamed... Come on guys! FEED THE TROLL! It's starving for attention!! Without instigating sarcastic disputes against the incontrovertible, he'd be bored and we wouldn't want that....

AWESOME INFO! Thanks, man! I'm glad to hear someone agrees with me and that article really helps reassure me of my original instincts to go with the 176. Much appreciated. {skybytch} - Why do you ask? Do you disagree? @ Goonies - Why are you still here? Go troll somewhere else. Stop wasting my time and get back under your bridge. Idk what/who made you such a hateful, worthless POS, but don't take it out on my thread where I'm actually trying to learn something. I know that might be hard to comprehend, but you should try it sometime... It involves less typing and more reading.

I like it and hopefully will be getting one soon in the same color. I'm still a little torn between that and the G3. I think I like feeling the wind in my face, though. Nice choice. Ignore the jealous folks.

Get jealous much? Let's see pics of your ever so exciting gear! Oh, you don't have any... So you try to make people feel like they're shit isn't cool because you can't afford it. Go cry to mommy about it. Maybe she'll hold you in her bussom and give you a tissue. Maybe she'll even tell you you're handsome despite being a troll. Go back under your bridge.

Thanks. I didn't want to be the @$$H0!E there. I didn't compute either. I still think I might go against his recommendations, but that's hard when the most experienced, knowledgeable, post PD tester says otherwise. My reasoning? The internet... His reasoning was if I were unconscious, the canopy would have less response to saddle inputs and it's more docile. He says the Optimum flies more like a Main and he wants the reserve to fly like a reserve. I'm already going against the recommendations of a Cypres and getting a MARS M2. I really don't know, but I just don't think I'd feel safe under a 160 PDR. If I didn't lose any weight, I'd be at a friggin 1.47 wing loading and I personally don't think/pretty much know I couldn't handle that confidently and PD says the flare on the Optimum is far superior. I get scared of the decent rate of the 210 spectre @ a 1.2wl. A 2.1 glide ratio on a 160 @ almost 1.5 f-111 would make me shit my pants. Plus, the extra cash it'll take to save up for the Optimum will allow me to get some more jumps in. I just hate to ask for advice and go against it anyways, ya know @ Dcloudz, thanks man. That even helps me lean more towards the Optimum since the 190 pulse is THE largest canopy I can cram in the M4, I'd prefer all the space I can get. I've only jumped 2 of my pack jobs, both old triathlons, and I decided to pay packers from that point on because of the 4" black opening reminders. Even with the senior riggers pack job, that shit slammed me, so I don't have much practice packing... I appreciate the input. Keep it coming, please!

LOL! Wonder why I don't have funds?? LOL!! And, since you're post was completely irrelevant, my grandmother paid for the other half of it for my birthday, prick.

Thanks. I edited the post to shorten it & add in the packing size? ;) Which do you think would pack smaller? @Remster Yes...

So, here's my deal. I'm @ 23 jumps, just got my Mirage G4 M4(170 container) and bought a 190 pulse. That was when I had lost 10lbs and weighed ~183 lbs. I stopped working out, got lazy and gained f'kin 30lbs in a few weeks (WTF?!). That puts me @ ~212 (236otd) right now and I'm flying a 210 Spectre. I stand up/run out ~ 75% of my landings and the rest are pretty soft plfs (knock on wood). On a strict diet & exercise routine, hoping to get back to at least 195 by the time I've got my gear together (2 months?). I jump ~5 times/wknd. My canopy skills are improving, but definitely not the best. My T&SA/DZO/Head Honcho (idk terms) used to be a test pilot for PD (has over 8k jumps). I told him I was getting a 176 optimum to put in there and he highly recommended against it. He said a 160 PDR would be safer for me??? That scares me, but I don't really know shit. He assured me it'd be safer and I shouldn't have a problem landing it. He knows my exit weight (235). He's seen me go through the school and knows me fairly well. (Keep in mind I won't be jumping this rig until I've got an AAD and Reserve, which will put me @ 40-60 jumps). In ya'll's experience, which one is easier to put down? Oh, and which do you think would pack smaller? P.S. Plz don't tell me to demo them. I don't have the funds. I need every $ I can get. I make $10/hr and only work 30hrs/week... ALL my extra money goes to skydiving.

Thanks, again. Haha, I was told there was a barometer and some strange speedometer in an AAD. It all makes sense now... I learn something new every day