evan85

All good advice in this thread. Here's some other advice I got when I asked this of friends recently:

"Tell them you are getting out at 13 and you'll have no problems at tsa."

"Just gear up and board the plane... When all the other passengers ask you if that's a parachute on your back, tell them 'yeah, the flight attendant didn't give you one on the way in?'"

"Wear your jumpsuit, helmet and gopro as well. Standing very close to the door in an exit row helps too. 'Am I blinking?'"

"And when you deplane, take rear float and try to launch a flower with the other passengers down the ramp"



On a serious note, know the rules for TSA (as they were told to me, I haven't confirmed these independently):
1. A supervisor is required to be present if they want to open your rig;
2. They must provide a secure area big enough for you to repack your main;
3. They must provide an FAA licensed rigger to perform the repack (emphasize "FAA", this tends to help);
4. If this causes you to miss your flight they will have to rebook your flight and they incur the costs.

bcxi

First 4-way was a bit of a fail. Unlinked exit and i managed to get a lot of distance from the base. It took me a while to get back and then i had trouble with my fall rate. Finally managed to get docked to the group but then it was time to break away.

My second attempt was much better! Still an unlinked exit and managed to get to the group much quicker and smoother thanks to my instructor saying "slow is fast". Got the star the i think it's called the open accordion (my logbook isn't here so i can't verify).

Heaps of fun!

Photo attached...

Sounds to me like you're doing pretty great for just starting 4way. Keep it up!

Also, it seems your instructor missed a step:
Slow is smooth.
Smooth is fast.

I think there's a difference between "planform" and "planform factor", and that is causing your confusion. I also use "Planform" to refer to the general shape or class of a wing--rectangular, lightly elliptical, elliptical, elliptical & crossbraced, etc. "Planform factor" is a number that tells you how elliptical a canopy is. For example, the Pilot's planform factor is 6.6 (http://www.flyaerodyne.com/pilot.asp). If the Hornet is indeed also a lightly-elliptical canopy, I would call it the same planform, even though it may not have the same planform factor as the Pilot.

adamUK

Baggy, regular and tight fit often only relate to the arms and legs. The body is made to measure. The tighter the fit the more accurate control you're meant to have but harder to fly, supposedly.

This is correct for both, but there's another factor as well. You are right that baggier suits can be "easier" to fly (because they give you more drag and thus more effect on the wind), but can be slightly less precise. Tighter suits will be more difficult, but more precise.

However, the other factor is fall rate. If you plan on flying with other people (in the tunnel or in the sky), you will need to be able to match fall rate with them. A tight suit will make you fall faster (or make you need higher wind speed in the tunnel), and vice versa.

Best advice is that if you're just starting out, go to one of the well-known suit manufacturers, give them your measurements and your weight, and they will make the correct suit for you--they've done this a lot and know how to get you the proper fall rate

Hellis

Wouldn't that be possible (or stickytape only) with the cookiemount?

I think it would. That being said, the more I thought about it, plus the fact that you can remove the big part of the mount and just have the base part stay on the helmet, I don't think it's a big deal. I'll just drill the holes and do it the way Cookie says is best. I'm not planning on changing my setup, getting a different form factor camera, or anything like that anytime soon.

DSE

Nowhere near as expensive as a hospital stay (or worse) because your lines got caught up on a helmet camera mounted on a helmet not designed for cameras, during an unstable or poorly packed deployment.

To the previous poster, there is no "snag proof" from anyone. There are significantly reduced risks, but nothing is snag proofed.

You're right. I actually looked into it a bit more and ordered one. I certainly know it's not "snag-proof" but it's certainly far less snag hazard than just slapping a sticky gopro mount on the top of the G3.

Skybear

Cookie now offers a GoPro-Mount which is snag-proof. Nothing bad about a cut-away but eliminating the hazard might proof best.

I agree with that. However, that gopro mount is (a) expensive, and (b) requires drilling holes in my helmet. Really my biggest issue is (b) -- I'm not sure I like the idea of drilling holes. That said, I know the big piece comes out and leaves only the base there, so maybe something I should look into a little more

All makes sense to me. I keep my G3 pretty tight; I'm not sure if I'd be able to pull it off without getting rid of some tension somewhere. I also agree that Brian's video doesn't really reflect what a fastex buckle does under tension.

That said, something is better than nothing, especially for all the folks (may be me soon) that put a gopro on their G3 whether they have a cutaway or not. I assume that's what you meant by "the liability"--the adding of a camera? If not, what other liability does Brian's cord introduce in and of itself? It seems to me that it's a pretty harmless thing to add, and can't really make anything any worse (other than perhaps a false sense of security).

Monkey, if you come up with a good cutaway for the G3 I'll be your first customer

Just came across this. What are folks thoughts on this idea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuqJV3eRH0g

I would venture to say the article is more important than the chart. Here's another good one: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Canopy_Control/Downsizing_Checklist_47.html. It's important that you be able to do all of these things on your current wing before you downsize. Remember, you don't size your canopy for the best conditions you're likely to face, but the worst.

Katscan

For my last 8 jumps on the 170 I only had one PLF, the rest were all stand ups. I do plan on talking to my instructors more as I get closer to purchasing my rig.

First off, you are right to talk to your instructors before downsizing. Listen to them as they have seen you fly and land.

That being said, you should be consistently not having to PLF except under the worst conditions (15+ mph downwind or crosswind) before you think about downsizing. I would highly recommend you take a look at this chart/article about how and when to properly downsize, and what you should be able to do under canopy before you think about downsizing: http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf.

NWFlyer

I use the other two to signal breakoff time and main deployment time. What else would you suggest I use the third for?

I agree with this. I hear people talk about "warning", "breakoff", and "pull", but which is really the most important altitude of all? Hard deck. If you blow breakoff by 200 feet because you're a little surprised by the alarm and not ready to go right away, not a big deal. (*Yes, I understand this is a big deal in big ways, large groups, etc., but OP's jump numbers and the nature of his question indicates that he is not on these sorts of jumps.) Even if I blow pull altitude by 200 feet, I have mine set high enough to take that possibility into account; not a big deal. If I blow through my hard deck, I am taking away time for my reserve to deploy and me to find somewhere to land, and land safely. That is not time I'm willing to give up.

So my answer is:

Breakoff: 4500 or 5000 depending on the jump
Wave-off & pull: 3500
Hard deck: 2000

What do your three altitudes (5300, 4000, 3300) represent to you? The numbers are meaningless without that information.

The reason the third alarm sounds like a siren going off (on most audibles) is that it's meant to tell you, "if you don't have a perfectly good flying canopy right this second, you need to cutaway."

I'm the kind of person who is likely to look for solutions/try to fix things, so I want an alarm that tells me "I don't care how close you are, or if you think you are about to get out of this--cutaway immediately." (Of course I know that in a low speed mal--depending on how low speed it really is--the third alarm may not go off at all. Always keep your eye on your alti when trying to fix a mal, if you've decided that you have enough altitude and the mal is fixable.)

If you really want to have a "warning" alarm before break off, buy a quattro -- then you can have warning, breakoff, pull, and hard deck.

attitude, not altitude. Belly, back, sit, head down?

I'm from the Detroit area originally but started skydiving after I left and have never jumped back in Michigan. I'm going to be in Michigan a couple times this fall, and was wondering where folks prefer to jump out there? Looks like Skydive Tecumseh and Midwest Freefall are both fairly close, but there may be others I don't know of. What's the vibe like at these DZs (or others)?

rwieder

Jet those rapide links and have some slinks installed. Then you won't have that problem anymore.

Installing slinks is a great idea if you're already planning to remove your rapide links to put on the slider bumpers -- just get rid of the rapide links and replace with slinks. This is definitely something you should have your rigger do (or assist you with). That said, you then have to decide whether you want your slider to come down past your slinks or not after opening. If so, you're done, enjoy! If not, you have to get the slink version of those bumpers (I've heard them called slink hats) and install those along with your slinks.

For more PC security, tuck it into the container, not the BOC. The reason for the tab is so that the PC cannot "walk out" of the BOC while on the plane or in the air. Although you will have some security with the tab tucked into the BOC, now you have a system where pushing the entire PC+pud unit to the right (viewing the jumper from the back) will result in the PC coming out. Tuck the pud into the container adjacent to the BOC, and now you have a system where, whether you get a push/tug/whatever to the right or left, and the PC is not going to come out of the BOC.

potatoman

Galaxy...
Analog is always good to have in your gear bag, for those days you go to the DZ and the battery is dead. Saved me plenty of times. So, get this as a start, and move on, keep it.

^^^^ This ^^^^

I got a Galaxy first. Good to use while you're still low on jump numbers, cheap, and similar in look to the ones you're probably used to from AFF.

Then I decided I wanted an audible. I had a thought that eventually I'd want a digital visual altimeter, so I bought an N3 and stuck it in my helmet while keeping the Galaxy on my wrist. Great system that I used for a while.

Later, I decided it was time to put the N3 on my wrist. As others have said, whether analog or digital is "faster" to read is rather individual to you. For me, digital is faster. So I put the N3 on my wrist and got an Optima II for my helmet. It's a great audible and cheaper (and thinner -- made a difference in comfort in my G3!) than the N3.

Every once in a while I'm glad I kept the Galaxy in my gear bag instead of selling it. Whether a friend can't find his alti and won't be able to jump with me without borrowing mine or the battery in my N3 is dead, it's great to still have around.

Remster

You're commenting on a video of a jumper having bad day below 2k. If you want to have a discussion about stability drills on exit, start your own thread.

Just so that someone says it, grue, I think what you said makes perfect sense and is very relevant to this conversation. If someone has the experience to jump that canopy, and has the experience to make the decision not to jump an RSL (a decision with which I disagree with but for which I understand the arguments), he/she should not take that long to get stable. Period.

This is an issue of a number of things contributing to the incident. If any one of them were done differently, I think this would just be a fairly normal (if on the low end altitude-wise) cutaway and reserve ride:
* Possibly pulling low (not clear from the video)
* Spending way too long trying to fix line twists while spinning on his back
* Taking way too long to get stable after cutaway
* Not having an RSL

NorrinRadd

Has anyone here done this? Were you involved with the Burning Sky theme camp? What were your experiences like?

I haven't done it myself but I know and regularly jump with the folks who organize it. Really great group of people, and I've only heard positive things.

dthames

Think about what you are saying. Want to skydive? You better be ready to take full responsibility for yourself. Sorry to be blunt but that is just the way it is. I trusted my instructors, but never felt like I was jumping out of the plane and it was someone else job to take care of me. But that is just me.

I was worried I was the only one thinking this!

If you leave the plane with your own rig, you are taking full responsibility for your own life. Any mindset other than this sets you up for failure (e.g. "oh darn, I can't find the pilot chute; I'll just wait for my nice main-side AFFI to pull it for me!").

Being scared or nervous is natural, and will go away (likely) after the first few jumps--probably before you finish AFF. But not wanting to "take full responsibility" -- that's just the wrong way to think about things. Your life is no one's responsibility but your own.

Hopefully your instructors have told you the same. On my first AFF jump, my main-side instructor told me "If something happens, I will try to catch up to you and deploy your canopy. I will try my absolute hardest until 2,000ft. After 2,000ft, you're on your own; I'm saving my own life."

skybytch

Quote

You mean to say the guy who makes a commission only if you buy a new container through him suggested that you buy a new container through him?

How do you know the guy is on commission?

Is your issue that you don't know if this individual person is getting commission, or that you don't know if this gear shop ("dealer", she called them) is making money on the sale of a brand new rig that it orders at wholesale from the manufacturer?

With respect to the individual, you're right, he may not make the commission, but the shop will. I can only assume he gets some kind of credit as an employee (whether it's commission, beer, high fives, not getting fired, etc.) when he makes money for the shop he works at.

NorrinRadd

***Sorry to intrude... still learning a lot at the moment... what is meant by booty pants? I mean, I like a bit of booty as much as the next person, but I don't think we're talking about the same thing...

Disregard this.. I found it out. The things that fit over the tips of your shoes, presumably making your legs a little more streamlined.

Though this is off-topic, I'll note briefly that the point of booties is in fact just the opposite -- they give you more surface area, which means more power in your legs.

MonsterMo

I did actually call one of the dealers (well, the biggest dealer) over here who suggested that resizing a container could end up coming to more than a new container, once the cost of the used container was taken into consideration...

You mean to say the guy who makes a commission only if you buy a new container through him suggested that you buy a new container through him? Shocker

Call the manufacturers directly regarding resizing of harnesses. Find some used gear listed for sale online. Do the math yourself.

wildcard451

You jumped the set up. Obviously you decided for yourself that it was safe to do so.

I don't think OP did.

xijonix

I personally felt that the reserve was too small to be paired with that main, but assumed that the gear shop owner knew more than I did and wouldn't tell me to jump it if he felt it was not safe.

It's not his life--it's yours. You are not a student any longer (your profile indicates B license). Do not rely on other people to keep you safe. As one example (that doesn't make the gear shop owner look like a bad guy), perhaps he just assumed you were comfortable on a 150, but were choosing to fly a larger main for some reason. As a licensed jumper, it's your job, and yours alone, to keep yourself safe, to keep everyone else around you safe, and to assume that they're all trying to kill you (i.e., be wary and be prepared for whatever stupid thing someone else might do, whether it's rent you gear you're not ready for or fly into your airspace on final).

Apollo87

@Billvon - I think you're totally right, but a 170 really frightens me and I was under the impression a reserve was easier to land than a main. Wellll, I just found out I was wrong, so I'll be busy dieting, exercising, and jumping my @$$ off to get my C license. I can do all of those things on the 210, save the HP front riser turns, but the first time I jumped it I made a 90degree toggle turn @ ~75 feet to get upwind, swooped a good ways and almost stood up. Most importantly, learned a VERY valuable lesson about flat turns which I have gotten great at :D That landing was pulled out of my ass, but sorta counts? I have NO interest in HP landings. And I'll pay close attention to the downsizing checklists. Thanks for the contribition.

Respectfully, I don't think you fully understood what billvon said. One good resource (that it appears you have not yet read) is Brian Germain's downsizing recommendations.
http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf
This is not simply a chart of sizes and weights, but rather a 22-page document that (in addition to that chart) (1) explains the relevant variables and why they are important, and (2) contains a great list of Essential Maneuvers that "should be performed on the current size and planform before downsizing or transitioning to a more responsive design." You literally could not have performed all of these maneuvers even once each, unless all 23 of your jumps were full-altitude hop-n-pops that you dedicated only to this list. And we both know that's not the case.

Please do yourself a favor and take a look at this list. There are a lot of things here that you really do need to be able to do. Standing up 3 out of 4 landings is simply not enough to be even close to ready to downsize. For example, Brian recommends that, before downsizing, you do 30 stand-up landings within 10m of target center, with 10 at no wind, 10 at light wind, and 10 at moderate wind. As another example, the fact that you made a 90 degree toggle turn at ~75 feet to get upwind is a huge indicator that you are not ready to downsize. That maneuver could (and would) kill you at lower wingloadings. (Only one size lower? I don't know. Do you want to test the hypothesis?) I know your response to me will be "but evan85, I already know not to do that again!" But you obviously didn't at the time. What else do you not know not to do? Some of those things will result in bruises and twisted ankles at low wingloadings, but broken bones/necks/backs/paralysis/death at higher wingloadings.

In conclusion, don't be in a rush. Your rig isn't going anywhere if it takes you a little longer before you can jump it. The sky isn't going anywhere, either.