Bluhdow

The Sabre1 is a beautiful WS canopy. I've had 2 (both with pocket sliders) and it's a really effective fix for any hard openings you may be getting. Both of mine sniveled nice and comfy very consistently and with way better heading performance than my Sabre2. Take it to a rigger and they'll be able to set you straight. Apex BASE #1816

I agree. On the busiest WS days I've seen at a DZ where WS is very popular it approaches 20% of the fun jump population...maybe. I think 5% is a good guess. It obviously varies from DZ to DZ but I would guess that good old fashioned belly flying is by far the most popular discipline. Apex BASE #1816

Here's an excerpt from an admittedly old article on this site about air locks: "Simply put, an 'Airlock' is a system designed to contain the internal pressure of a ram-air canopy, and therefore its airfoil shape. In short, the air goes in, but it doesn’t go out. If the wing’s shape is not reliant upon the relative wind (created by airspeed), then the performance range is consequently expanded and enhanced in every respect. In addition, the theory holds, such a self-contained airfoil will not distort or be otherwise adversely effected by turbulent flying conditions." If I'm understanding correctly the argument is that increased stability should lead to more consistent performance, which could certainly be considered a performance benefit. I do think I understand your point though, in that air locks in and of themselves won't change flight characteristics (aside from consistency). At the end of the day it's another option, and it's different from what else is out there. That's good for jumpers...so yay Renegade! Apex BASE #1816

Presumably to create something a bit sportier than a "low performance 7 cell." Airlocks also add stability in turbulent conditions which can be plus for those of us jumping in the desert. I think it's a fair statement that many of the new WS canopies are making a compromise where they give away a meaningful amount of flying performance in exchange for improved opening behavior. This appears to be an attempt to find a more desirable middle ground. I haven't flown one, but I don't see the value in knocking his idea. Apex BASE #1816

Yeah! Last years model is obviously inadequate. This years model is the best thing ever created! Until it becomes last years model. Apex BASE #1816

As stated above by many, there are a bunch of ZP WS appropriate options. My personal favorite is the Sabre1 (w/ pocket slider mod). ZP will last longer and is way easier to resell. It's also (generally) a bit sportier and more fun to fly. F-111 will always have an advantage when it comes to opening performance, but you give up a lot when you make that trade-off. Apex BASE #1816

I would look at a PF Shadow/Phantom, or Magister if you'd like something a little bigger. That's a nice step between a Prodigy (which is really a tracking suit) a the bigger suits like Strix/Freak/ATC/etc. Apex BASE #1816

I agree, and have tried to be very clear in my comparisons above. Apologies if there was any confusion. Apex BASE #1816

Transitions were super easy. Comparable to the Freak, though a little less pressure I think helps smooth them out for me. I was several months uncurrent in any WS before my first jump in the Rafale and my first transition was smooth and easy. The Rafale profile feels a little thicker in the armwing, so the armwing feels a little more substantial on your hand at the gripper. Other than that, you would never even know there was more fabric. As I said before I cannot compare it to the Freak 2 except to say it felt similar in performance to the F2s I've flown with, but it's better than my Freak 1 in every way. I'm getting used to the new grippers as well. They really encourage a lighter grip with an open palm which, I think, is how the cool kids are flying these days. The older style batons always compelled me to hold onto them more tightly than proper technique would probably suggest. Apex BASE #1816

More jumps on the Rafale and I love it more each time. I've flown comfortably with suits as small as a Swift 2, and as large as an Aura 2. I've been on my belly and back with both of the aforementioned suits and flying comfortably. The suit has far more range on its back than my Freak. The Freak wanted to go fast on its back...anything less and it would start getting upset (usually in the tail). The Rafale stays pressurized and powerful whether I'm looking up at a Swift or an Aura (and presumably everything in between). Everybody loves their new suits the first few jumps. It takes a couple weeks before you start finding little imperfections. Still looking for those...so far she's been perfect. =) Apex BASE #1816

I think this hits the nail on the head. And since when is "trial and error" not scientific? There was plenty of science being done way before we had pretty line graphs and Flysights. Apex BASE #1816

In a true "apples to apples" comparison I'm not sure which would be faster in a straight line. My very first jump was with an Aura 2 and his comment to me upon landing was, "that thing is fast." As stated above, it's definitely faster than my Freak 1 and I had no problem chasing Freak 2s around. But I bet a really skilled pilot could burn me in just about any suit. As the performance of these suits starts to even out being a good flyer is going to become important again. I don't race so I'm not interested in straight line speed, I'm just interested in "practical speed." That is, is it fast enough to do everything I'd like to do? The answer here is yes, absolutely. I didn't find the pressure difference any harder on my arms/shoulders than my Freak. That is, neither is physically difficult to fly from an endurance standpoint. If you want to relax into the suit and let it fly the pressure is more than adequate for that. Grippers are flat like the Strix. It's an interesting change as I'm used to the traditional gripper design, but I'm usually pretty light in holding my grippers anyway so it took about 5 seconds to get used to. *Clarification on grippers: The Strix has a flat design but without the ''ear'' on the top where you hook the palm and thumb. On the Rafale the gripper is padded with rubber for a nicer grip and comfort while the Strix has flat carbon fiber plate with no ''ear'' cut. Apex BASE #1816

Update: “Rah-fall.” Apex BASE #1816

Got a chance to put my first 3 jumps on the Rafale yesterday. This is not a review, as 3 jumps isn't nearly enough to provide a proper review. It is however, enough to have some initial impressions, so here they are: When I was getting ready to fly this new suit I had two concerns: 1. The leg stance was much wider than the stance on the Freak I've been flying for the past 2 years. 2. I hadn't flown a WS since mid-June and I was pretty uncurrent, at least by my standards, flying wingsuits. After about 2 seconds into my first flight both of these concerns were gone. The stance felt natural and comfortable in flight and the suit felt really natural and easy to fly. All of my currency and stance concerns were immediately gone and I felt confident enough in the suit within the first 15 seconds or so to flip to my back. Easy transition, super smooth and comfortable, rock solid on its back with no wonkiness or tail flutter. In terms of speed, glide, power: it has more of all of those things than my Freak 1. I flew with a handful of Freak 2s and, at least from my perspective, speed/glide/etc. appeared to be similar. I would guess that it's mostly a matter of pilot skill and neither suit has a massive speed/glide/etc. advantage here. I also flew with an ATC and Aura 2 as well with no problem, so I feel like the suit will have the range on both ends needed to be a great DZ suit. The Rafale felt adequately pressurized and super solid both belly and back, but not excessively or unnecessarily pressurized as I've felt with some other suits in the past. To me, the most important things are comfort, ease of flight, predictability, and a general feeling of confidence when I'm flying a suit...especially a new suit. Rafale has all of these things in spades. I was shocked at how confident I felt, so quickly out the door. I was looking for something with more power for BASE, while still being fun and easy to fly in the sky. I'm confident that this Rafale will do that for me. I've already sold my Freak 1. A few other notes: 1. I still don't know how to pronounce it (Raf-Ale?). 2. Little things like the new magnet location in the tailwing, new gripper design, etc. are nice touches. 3. I love that PF kept the "innie outtie" functionality for BASE. A few people I know with Freak 2s were really bummed to lose that functionality. I really like it, and I'm stoked that Rafale still offers it. 4. I am able to access my risers while zipped, very similar to my Freak 1. 5. Flying next to a freak 2 the flare felt comparable. I easily followed the F2 up through a flare. Apex BASE #1816

Let's get this thread back on track, eh? Weather permitting I'll get to fly it this weekend. Fit is perfect, per usual, with PF (in my experience, 4 suits so far). Robi was kind enough to build a hybrid version with partial UL construction, and partial non-UL for durability. Basically everything interior (pockets, liners, ribs, etc.) is UL material with the exterior (when zipped up) being standard fabric for more durability and longevity while skydiving. For me it's a great balance between lightweight (for BASE) and durability (in the sky). If it flies half as good as it looks and feels I'll be a very happy camper. Apex BASE #1816

Just wait until next year for the Hayduke 2. Apex BASE #1816

Just wait until next year for the Epicene Pro Two. Apex BASE #1816

Conclusion: 1. I will still let you know how my Rafale compares to my Freak once it arrives. 2. All modern suit designs are basically Tony Suits from the "Bird" series. 3. Marketing has become a thing in this industry for better or worse. Sounds to me a lot like every other industry as it matures. I mean, what are the fundamental differences between a Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla...really? Apex BASE #1816

There hasn't been any "interesting developments" in wingsuits in about a decade. In about 15 years, L/D increased only by 20% (from 2.5 of V-4 back in 2004 to 3.0 of mattresses; and it's been stuck at 3.0 flat for years now). The prevailing planform is pretty much the same T-design of about 10 years ago. L/D improved mostly due to trivially increased surface area. Dramatic improvement in flare is mostly an automatic consequence of this modest improvement in L/D (flare - effective conversion of kinetic energy into potential energy - is very sensitive to L/D increase). Increased internal pressure is nice for ease of flying, but has virtually no effect on aerodynamics, as long as it's enough to shape the wing (and it was enough 15 years ago in "soft" suits). The multi-million $$$ wingsuit industry is as stagnant as some swamp in Florida. The only thing that is skyrocketing is the marketing. Any new minuscule iteration is presented as a revolutionary breakthrough. "Buy buy buy... we want your $$$... $2K at a time." Winner winner chicken dinner! +1 Apex BASE #1816

Different manufacturers will always have different design priorities and philosophies, and then proclaim that their unique balance of design elements has generated the best overall product. In the end it's all subjective and there is no "best wingsuit." There are only "different wingsuits" that make different compromises to achieve (what the manufacturer believes to be) the best overall balance of performance. The best suit for person A will not always be, nor will it ever always be, the best suit for persons B-Z. When Squirrel first hit the scene they pushed back against stiff leading edges, with toggle access being paramount for safety. Over time they have become less rigid (pun!) on this point and moved toward the performance benefits of stiffer leading edges. Thus the narrative evolved from "toggle access" to "riser control." I think they have tried to marry these two narratives with removable foam and variable levels of leading edge stiffness which is a good idea. That said I own a Freak and cannot access my toggles without unzipping. I have no problem with this, at all. For me riser access is adequate and worth the benefits of a more solid leading edge. I also own two different PF suits and have found the riser access on these suits to be similar to my Freak even with their stiffer PF leading edges. On the leading edge I think the design philosophies between PF and Squirrel are converging. I think the biggest difference in design styles is fit. Squirrel suits seem to pressurize more and fit relatively loosely...especially through the torso. The PF is philosophy is that a tighter fit allows for more precise inputs and control. One could argue (I think fairly) that precision is in and of itself a safety feature. At the end of the day, all of the modern suits are really good. I don't think you can go wrong with anything from the major manufacturers. Apex BASE #1816

I should have my Rafale in the near future. Upgrading from a Freak 1, for what it’s worth. I can let you know that comparison after I get some jumps on it. My hope is that the Rafale will provide more power in the BASE environment while still being fun, like the Freak, in the sky. Apex BASE #1816

Eh...kind of. I would say that the PC is one of the smallest contributors to the quality of your opening. Like...probably dead last after a whole lot of other way more important factors like body position, airspeed, canopy selection, bridle length...etc. All things being equal, it might matter a little. But for the vast majority of people as long as your PC is in good condition and lacking an overly heavy handle it will work just fine. Most people would be better served taking that $200 and paying a coach to help them with their deployment technique for a day. Apex BASE #1816

Pretty much all modern containers work. Nine foot bridles are important, longer containers are nice, docile 9 cell canopies work well and if you're a WS-only jumper then 7 cells have their advantages. As for pilot chutes, you could tie a plastic grocery bag to the end of your bridle and the canopy would come out. An overly heavy hackey is undesirable, but other than that you're good to go. I personally like to tape over the open holes of the PVC designs to prevent finger stick-age, but if you're comfortable with a certain (not super heavy) PC handle then roll with it. Apex BASE #1816

Official answer: Coaching is always better when it's an option. Real world answer: With that experience a classic TS should be no problem. Enjoy! Apex BASE #1816

Having flown suits from all "big 3" manufacturers (PF, Tony, Squirrel) I personally like the PF solution best. The stiff leading edges allow for very precise inputs, and there's a cutaway provided for emergency purposes. I've never had to cutaway a zipper, but it's nice to know it's there. Even with the stiffest PF leading edges I've never had a problem reaching the bottom of my risers. Apex BASE #1816