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  2. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    First, I think there is at least ONE minor mistake in the FBI's chute files regarding size, but none in the one provided by Agent John Detlor. Second, how about we give the chutes NAMES to make them easier to reference? GI JOE - The NB6/8 with the 28 foot white conical canopy. PINKY - The popped chute found on board that the FBI still has to this day. Manufactured by Switlik. DUMMY - This one is obvious. The non-working trainer. MUSEUM PIECE - The one currently residing at the WA State History Museum. This is the Pioneer. Here we go... PINKY: This chute was given to the Citizen Sleuths, along with its container. They have extensive pictures and took measurements. It is a 24' canopy and came in a belly pack container. You can see the belly pack at their website. It is NOT a bailout or 'backpack' rig. According to the FBI report, this means it came from Issaquah Sky Sports. Found on board aircraft. Pinky was manufactured by Switlik and has extensive serial numbers and other identification on it. DUMMY: We can agree this one also came from Sky Sports. Missing from aircraft. GI JOE - Several sources say this is the ONLY chute, other than Dummy, missing from the aircraft. It is a backpack bailout rig. Cooper was seen putting on a bailout, backpack rig. Since MUSEUM PIECE was found on board, and pictures of it at the museum show it to also be a backpack bailout rig, this MUST mean GI JOE was used by Cooper to jump. Even Cossey says it's the NB chute with the 28' canopy. So does Agent Detlor. MUSEUM PIECE: To fill this slot, the only chute remaining is the 'civilian luxury type' (with military canopy). The 26-foot bailout/backpack rig that was returned to Hayden. It is the Pioneer. An FBI file mistakenly says it is only 24 feet, but does identify it as a working backpack found on board in Reno. This leaves only PINKY as the only other chute on board in Reno, and PINKY is well documented. GI JOE and MUSEUM PIECE are known quantities as well. One is missing, the other is in a museum. DUMMY is gone but didn't work anyway, and Cooper was SEEN putting on a bailout rig. If one bailout rig is in a museum, logic says it was the OTHER bailout rig Cooper jumped with. That would be GI JOE, the NB6/8, 28-footer NOT found on board in Reno. PINKY is a belly pack. The only real problem is that some FBI reports mis-measured one of the chutes in Reno. You can't add more chutes to the mix without proof. There are no references to additional chutes being taken to Seattle. Four were brought to SeaTac, four are accounted for one way or another. The identity of three of the four chutes is beyond question. The fourth was DUMMY.
  3. sedsquare

    Riser design & toggle fires

    Where can I get more info on these risers? I couldn't find much info on IPT's website. I'd like to avoid another toggle fire like I had over the weekend (likely from the slider pushing the toggle out on opening).
  4. Today
  5. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    No, I lost tons of files in an HD crash a couple years back, I looked but only can recall nothing specific to Sauvie, but generally that material was barged from downstream including the Lewis R for erosion mitigation in many areas. I worked on it for a while a few years ago but couldn't get any further than confirming the massive 200,000 cu/yd shore remediation project in 1976/77 right across and upstream from TBAR, beyond that it is speculation. I kept seeing it, one example.. Hahneman was in the 316th.. “Gentlemen, you will be taking part in the largest Airborne Armada ever assembled. The 316th Troop Carrier Group will be sending 72 planes into the air from here. There are thirteen more identical groups just like ours - 72 planes in each group - taking off from different locations. In total, 800 planes will blend mid-air into V-Formation to complete the 2-hour, 51-minute flight to Normandy. Let’s do the job you men have been trained for. Keep the formation tight, and give your troops a good trip to the DZ. Good luck. Let’s go!”
  6. JJG78

    DB Cooper

    I don't know. "Do the job" sounds like something someone would say that has a bomb and is threatening people. Maybe it has military connotations. The term ladder jumped out at me and made me think of some of those World War II movies. Did you ever figure out where the dredge started? That is some good info on the bills you posted.
  7. I have some longish term rotator cuff issues. No tearing (not yet), but some impingement and a fair amount of pain. I've been doing PT to build up and maintain the muscles in my shoulders for nearly a decade. It's more for dealing with everyday life with as little pain as possible than for any specific purpose, like jumping. I've found very little issues dealing with the force of the wind at freefall speeds. It's not that big of a deal. However, dealing with my piece partners can be rather hard on my shoulders. Sometimes we pull harder than we should to hold a formation, sometimes we get a little overenthusiastic rotating pieces. The temptation to 'make a point' by grabbing as I'm falling by can sometimes be irresistible. Yes, I know I shouldn't. Yes, it usually does more 'harm' to the formation than help. I also find that packing can be hard on my shoulders. I have added a couple different 'motions' to my PT routine that mimic certain things I do when packing (specifically pushing inward while narrowing the cocooned canopy). I can't imagine any PT or training that would help mitigate the effects of hard openings. When they happen, they happen. I get less 'twang' on my neck and more on my back, particularly the lower part. It's kind of hard to describe, but its not a 'strength' issue. It's an 'impact' sort of issue.
  8. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    You don't have to believe Cossey to see the issue, the FBI files clearly state the chute and packing card found on the plane at Reno was a 1960 Pioneer back chute 24 ft packed by Cossey May 21/1971. That is one of Hayden's. Hayden received a 1957 26 ft from the FBI. Both are confirmed seperately in the FBI files and the 24ft as found on the plane in Reno. So, we have accounted for both of Hayden's back chutes.. What did Cooper jump with?
  9. riggerrob

    Shelf life on containers?

    Mr. gunsmokex, Warehoused harnesses lose little strength over 20 years. OTOH In service, one summer laying out it the sun can ruin a harness. The simplest inspection technique is comparing fading on the front side and the back side of the same reserve riser. Yes, neon colours lose their “sheen” much faster, so fading is a less accurate way to measure their strength. I have seen neon rigs lose their sheen in as little as a single year (Southern California Desert), but they were still strong enough for another thousand jumps. The other problem with 20+ year old rigs is that they have fallen out of fashion. While they might still be relevant for belly-flying, they may not be for more recent styles of skydiving. I can show you a badly-torn Vector II. During a sit-fly jump, the main pilot chute snuck out of its pocket (leg strap) and the deploying main ripped the reserve container halfway off the backpad! Only stitching was damaged. I had the sewing machines and skills to sew it back together, but advised the owner to buy a newer design that was more free-fly-friendly. Fortunately the reserve free bag and canopy were undamaged, but by then its Raven III (249 square feet) had been superseded by a couple of generations of reserves designed to be loaded more than 1/1. We also salvaged its Cypres. Funny how we rarely hear the term “free-fly-friendly” these days. Once the problem areas were recognized, “fixes” quickly became “production standard” across the industry.
  10. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    I have to say I tend to believe the FBI report more than Cossey's version of events. Cossey is the same guy who thought it was funny to tell a reporter that the Amboy chute WAS Cooper's. Poor guy almost lost his job. Cossey is the same guy who told reporters in 2008 that he knew the Amboy chute was silk and that's why it couldn't be Cooper's. He said they dumped it in his driveway and he knew 'in less than ten seconds'. I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but I think the PDF is pretty accurate and Cossey was less than honest when he said he actually owned the chute Cooper jumped with. Well, no matter. Come June the one I will be looking for doesn't even work. Two more people applied to go on the search/campout today. If we get thirty people or so, I think I will cut it off there. So far we have nine 'for sures' and two 'maybes'. Or I might stop accepting apps based on the number of vehicles. I don't think it's the number of people so much that matters, but how many vehicles we plan to take up there.
  11. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    also, when researching the C-47 crewman, I kept reading the phrase "do the job" was that a WW2 phrase?
  12. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    That doc is accurate. If you read it carefully it doesn't say that Cooper received both Hayden chutes. Hayden furnished to Northwest Airlines two backpack chutes. Forget about the front reserves.. We have two Hayden back chutes accounted for.. The 1960 left on the plane in Reno.. and the 1957 returned to him. What did Cooper jump with? this is not a trick question. Cossey claimed Cooper used his customized chute and it came from his house.. everyone thought he was lying, he wasn't. I live in Canada, 2 minutes from the US border.
  13. Yes! Dacron has more surface friction and more bulk that force sliders to hesitate - that extra fraction of a second - before roaring down lines.
  14. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    I think I will work on this for a bit. I dunno. The report by Agent Detlor is pretty plain. I still think the whole answer is right there in the document. No redactions. This one was part of the series released by Geoff Gray. It lays out the situation well I think. Especially on the sizes and types provided by Hayden, and the fact that only FRONT chutes were provided by Sky Sports. Sounds like to me that Cooper jumped with the 'military back pack parachute' the 28 foot conical, belonging to Hayden. 'Civilian luxury type' MUST be the one in the museum because we know the only other working chute had a PINK canopy, not white. So...that only leaves Pinky and the Dummy. Pinky is in the hands of the FBI, Dummy is somewhere on the ground in the Pacific Northwest. Probably near Castle Rock. <<<<<(Just kidding on that last line.) EDIT: Flyjack...do you live anywhere remotely near the Pacific Northwest? Not asking where you live, just wondering if you are in the general area at all.
  15. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    Cossey claimed the back chutes came from his house.. The 1960 chute left on the plane was a Pioneer back chute. Hayden got his 1957 back chute returned to him, now at the museum, What did Cooper jump with? Both of Hayden's back chutes are accounted for. Cooper could have only jumped with Cossey's back chute. Do the math...
  16. SkydiveLT

    Hops 330

    Time Left: 29 days and 21 hours

    • FOR SALE
    • USED

    I have three hops 330 for sale

    $1,500.00

    Minden, NV

  17. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    The back chute left on the plane in Reno was inspected, the card was found, it was packed by Cossey May 21/1971, it was a 1960 24ft. (This is the famous pink bubblegum FRONT pack chute.) The chute given back to Hayden was packed by Cossey May 21/1971, it was a 1957 26ft. Written right on the card. (This is the one in the WA State History Museum today. Backpack. Bailout rig.) Cossey claimed to have supplied two chute to Norjak. (This is not true. Linn Emerick at Sky Sports handed them over. Besides, Cossey would have known better than to provide a trainer.) FBI notes state Cossey owned the chutes. (We know he packed them, yes. Owned them? Doubtful. Even if he did, it's the type and identification of all chutes that matters most.) Hayden got the 1957 chute back, the 1960 chute was left on the plane, what did Cooper jump with? (Only leaves the 28 foot conical in the NB6/8 backpack. Backpack bailout rig, belonged to Hayden.) On the other hand, Linn Emerick was a skydiver too. Hmm. I found his number, C-1036. I dunno. This is crazy. Maybe Cossey did own them somehow, but it was certainly Emerick who handed them over to the cops.
  18. SkydiveLT

    Eclipse Tandem Containers

    Time Left: 29 days and 21 hours

    • FOR SALE
    • USED

    Eclipse Tandem containers they were recondition last year great shape comes complete.

    $1,000.00

    Minden, NV

  19. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    This is really simple.. The back chute left on the plane in Reno was inspected, the card was found, it was packed by Cossey May 21/1971, it was a 1960 24ft. The chute given back to Hayden was packed by Cossey May 21/1971, it was a 1957 26ft. Written right on the card. Cossey claimed to have supplied two chute to Norjak. FBI notes state Cossey owned the chutes. Hayden got the 1957 chute back, the 1960 chute was left on the plane, what did Cooper jump with?
  20. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    Below: WW2 paratroopers boarding a C-47 Skytrain. They use a short ladder to get on board.
  21. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    Really.. I did not think of that. thanks, I'll have to dig into it more..
  22. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    This is the first I have heard about six chutes. No big deal but Agent Detlor is a guy. I hope someone jumps in and takes a look at that picture of the chute at the museum. LOL you should have heard Norman Hayden. No way he would have bought a belly pack, or front or whatever you call it. He absolutely HATED the idea of trying to sport fly, you know...rolls, loops, upside down, whatever...while wearing a chute. He bought two bailout rigs, backpacks. Grudgingly.
  23. FLYJACK

    DB Cooper

    HE? could be correct, possible only four went to SeaTac Airport, but six were collected. They didn't go straight to SeaTac.
  24. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    Now everybody is getting mixed up. I saw this posted by Eric recently: How do you know the bag was 'too full'? You think Cooper jumped with a briefcase in hand? And if he used the dummy reserve to hold the money, where did the sewn-together nylon go? Cooper was SEEN cutting lines, tying the money bag with them, and attaching another line around his waist by Mucklow. Are you suggesting that the minute she closed the First Class curtain, he suddenly decided to shift gears and completely dismantle that entire assembly in favor of the dummy chute? And what about the briefcase and the alleged bomb with that heavy battery? You think just took it down the stairs like a carry-on? I doubt it. The most likely scenario is that Cooper secured the money bag with paracord several times over, and then secured it to the line around his waist with some slack. Maybe five or six feet. Then after he opened the airstairs and went down them a bit, he tossed out the briefcase, the dummy chute, and maybe the placard at the same time. Anyone finding those things would be searching for Cooper in the wrong place. Maybe...that was the whole idea. The money bag was probably hung below him on the slack line on the way down. Everyone has seen paratroopers jump in the movies and on TV. They often have additional load below them in that manner. Secured to a line.
  25. JJG78

    DB Cooper

    Flyjack-you posted some files that show he used the term "ladder" versus "stairs." Someone who flew on military C-47's would have used a ladder to get in the plane right? not stairs. Doesn't the term ladder indicate military more than someone who was not in the military?
  26. RobertMBlevins

    DB Cooper

    I have to ask...where did you get this 'six chute' stuff? Agent Detlor says only four went to the airport. I have sent the picture above to '377' asking his opinion. Besides, only the chutes GIVEN to Cooper would count for anything. Guy asks for $200,000 and maybe they bring $400,000 by mistake. Half ends up back at the bank and no one knows or cares about that, right?
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