lurch 0 #51 October 8, 2011 "Against" meaning he hit it as he was going over? What a wuss. Thats the problem with this sport, buncha halfhearted wannabes lacking mad skillz and commitment. If he'd had any stones he'd have cleared it clean. Friggin' underachiever.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIRDDOCTOR 0 #52 October 8, 2011 Tail strike at Skydive Miami this year with guy in a X-Bird. He had a beautiful exit on video :) and just happened to hit the tail. He injured his leg if I remember right. I won't forget this one bc I carted all my gear down there for a medical course and wingsuiting just happened to be banned right when I arrived. Priceless.Base# 1638 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MobertaRancino 0 #53 October 8, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcb2L5GkNRM&feature=player_embedded The X-bird you are referring to looks a lot like a V3 and then a V2, unless there were more then these two.I like fuzzy bunnys!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIRDDOCTOR 0 #54 October 9, 2011 I took the type of suit from one of the early posts in the thread: Re: [davelepka] Tailstrike Skydive Miami [In reply to] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @ 21 seconds it sounds like someone says "its pretty fast man " , anyone else hear that ? (maybe referring to the jump run) reason # 4523 to have alot of experience skydiving and training with small wingsuits before getting a V3/xbird. i do think the low pass probably contributed to the wingsuiter trying to get flying way too soon Either way a WS hit the tail MarkBase# 1638 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #55 October 9, 2011 We're seeing more and more of these with 3 causes - bad technique - airplane (to fast, not level) - huge suits The last one worries me most, as those can screw up exits with good technique, good run in etc even.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #56 October 10, 2011 QuoteWhoa, hold it lemme get this straight, you're gonna hassle the Professor for using weights with a wingsuit? I don't believe the way forward is wearing large wingsuits and lead. Maybe for the "weekend warrior" but not for the "challenges" and "records" ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonedfx 0 #57 October 10, 2011 That raises a question I've been having about big suits and tail strikes for a while. Are there planes in which those suits should really not be used ? I can see it being way easier with a tail exit (modulo waiting for the tail to pass), but are there planes from which a carpet suit should really not be allowed to exit at all because the risk is too high (high speed, low tail) ? We have limited experience with huge suits at our DZ, we have a Pilatus and a Twin Otter. Any info would be welcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #58 October 10, 2011 QuoteThat raises a question I've been having about big suits and tail strikes for a while. Are there planes in which those suits should really not be used ? I can see it being way easier with a tail exit (modulo waiting for the tail to pass), but are there planes from which a carpet suit should really not be allowed to exit at all because the risk is too high (high speed, low tail) ? We have limited experience with huge suits at our DZ, we have a Pilatus and a Twin Otter. Any info would be welcome. I feel that there is no aircraft/wingsuit combination that should be restricted. I do believe that there are -people+big suits+certain aircraft that should be restricted until they have the skills that offers the pilot, aircraft, and DZO an assurance that they won't have a tailstrike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifell 0 #59 October 10, 2011 So Spot, does that mean I have nothing to worry about with a PIPER NAVAJO and P2z? Cause I have been putting off visiting some dropzones around here for that very reason.... Also because those DZ have no WS flyers hehe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIRDDOCTOR 0 #60 October 10, 2011 I'm sure Spot will chime in but in the mean time: All planes that are safe for RW jumpers are safe to jump any wingsuit as long as you keep the wings closed down for the appropriate amount of time on exit with the appropriate exit form. In reality you exit just like a regular RW jump when the wings are closed down. If you have problems closing down the wings for a safe an appropriate exit then you need to seek out coaching.Base# 1638 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonedfx 0 #61 October 10, 2011 QuoteI feel that there is no aircraft/wingsuit combination that should be restricted. I do believe that there are -people+big suits+certain aircraft that should be restricted until they have the skills that offers the pilot, aircraft, and DZO an assurance that they won't have a tailstrike. Okay, let me rephrase, which certain aircraft+big suits do you feel some people should be restricted from using until they have those skills ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #62 October 10, 2011 I've not done any WS jumps from a Navaho, but have done RW and ISP coaching from a Navaho. I can't see any reason why one would be worried about it, not if they know proper wingsuit exit processes. In a P2? As long as the arms stay shut down, I'd have no worries (but this is also dependent on jumper skill/heads-up ability). It's not terribly different from a King...I've got hundreds of WS jumps from a King. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifell 0 #63 October 10, 2011 Good to know, thanks guys! Only jumped from Caravan/Otter and people were telling me the Navaho had a much lower tail so... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #64 October 10, 2011 Hmm, I can agree that weights aren't the way forward- as a light critter I would benefit more than most from the use of them but I preferred to try to learn to work under all circumstances without them. And generally, if another bird told me they thought they -needed- weights I'd tell em learn to fly better and teach em how, compensate with more arch, or wings further back, or (gasp) bent legs and such. I just object to beatin' on Doc for thinking outside the box. Our freeform variability and creativity is our strength. Doc's doing something different and learning subtle things about artificially loaded wingsuit properties the rest of us know nothing about and this should be applauded not criticized. He's doing what an academic does... adding to our community knowledge base. And actually I think Challenges and Records are precisely where such experimentation is likely to pay off, by the way. One of the biggest challenges in these events is getting everyone flying in close enough to the same bandwidth for the formation to work. Granted, I've never had any trouble dialing in to any formation I've been in to date except that vert from last year, but if I did, I'd either switch suits like I did then or add weight. Weights could also come in handy for making formations of visual symmetry... for example we could be trying to build a precise 7-way docked line. Now we could do it with a mismatched assortment of suits and body types, which results in the difficulties we typically see, where some birds tend to float, some tend to want to outrun the rest of the line and so on. Very hard to get everyone flying THAT precisely relative to each other especially since docked flight restricts one's adjustability quite a bit. If I were organizing such a 7-way I'd try to recruit 7 birds all flying the same suit, then fine tune it by adding weights to the lighter ones including myself if necessary. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #65 October 10, 2011 QuoteIf I were organizing such a 7-way I'd try to recruit 7 birds all flying the same suit, then fine tune it by adding weights to the lighter ones including myself if necessary. -B I would be willing to agree that weight has it's place so long as it's place is after appropriate wingsuit choice (and skill). Although I do believe that if the appropriate wingsuit choice (and skill) is made that weight is likely unneeded. PS: As far as bent legs (45' or greater) ... downsize your wingsuit."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #66 October 10, 2011 QuoteQuoteIf I were organizing such a 7-way I'd try to recruit 7 birds all flying the same suit, then fine tune it by adding weights to the lighter ones including myself if necessary. -B I would be willing to agree that weight has it's place so long as it's place is after appropriate wingsuit choice (and skill). Although I do believe that if the appropriate wingsuit choice (and skill) is made that weight is likely unneeded. PS: As far as bent legs (45' or greater) ... downsize your wingsuit. I've been in flocks with vertical fall rates over 80mph and flocks with fall rates under 40mph. I could spend $thousands on different "appropriate" suits that satisfy your unimaginative preconceptions, or use my RW weight belt to adjust so that I am comfortably in the middle of my range in either case. I don't wear weight when flocking with Brian or Betty or Kenny or Simon, but I do when Boris is flying base. Your lack of imagination is not my problem. Are you receiving commissions from wingsuit manufacturers? Funny, too, that you should be giving advice on how to fly to Lurch.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #67 October 10, 2011 QuoteI've been in flocks with vertical fall rates over 80mph and flocks with fall rates under 40mph. I could spend $thousands on different "appropriate" suits that satisfy your unimaginative preconceptions, or use my RW weight belt to adjust so that I am comfortably in the middle of my range in either case. Given your tracking claims all you need is your RW suit for those 80mph flocks, a small wingsuit for those 60mph flocks, and your large wingsuit for those 40mph flocks ... QuoteFunny, too, that you should be giving advice on how to fly to Lurch. I didn't give Lurch advice on how to fly. I did applaud him for choosing to change wingsuits to a more appropriate (smaller) wingsuit based on the performance of the formation he was flying in ..."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #68 October 10, 2011 Quote Quote Whoa, hold it lemme get this straight, you're gonna hassle the Professor for using weights with a wingsuit? I don't believe the way forward is wearing large wingsuits and lead. Maybe for the "weekend warrior" but not for the "challenges" and "records" ... Than try to think like e.g. a Finnish wing suit flier. Quote What to do for arching less? No way, I don't buy a new suit, just for flying with those dirty/vertical guys. I'd rather fly a small suit, than a big with more weight. I got enough weight for my carpet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #69 October 10, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Whoa, hold it lemme get this straight, you're gonna hassle the Professor for using weights with a wingsuit? I don't believe the way forward is wearing large wingsuits and lead. Maybe for the "weekend warrior" but not for the "challenges" and "records" ... Than try to think like e.g. a Finnish wing suit flier. How does a Finnish flier think? Quote Quote What to do for arching less? No way, I don't buy a new suit, just for flying with those dirty/vertical guys. I'd rather fly a small suit, than a big with more weight. I got enough weight for my carpet. Who made that quote? I agree, I would rather fly a small suit than a big suit with more weight."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #70 October 10, 2011 Quote Given your tracking claims all you need is your RW suit for those 80mph flocks Even if someone can track at 80mph fallrate, they can most likely not even keep up with the most bent-legs formation ever. http://www.matthoover.com/gallery/skydiving-photos/2006-09/2006-09_p11.html#navbar Notice the guy on the camera step without a wingsuit. That's Tony Hathaway with more skydives than most people in this thread have combined. We told him we had an 80mph fallrate and he said he'd come along on the next jump. This was 2006, smaller wingsuits, legs-bent even more in style then than now. Indeed, he had no problem matching our fallrate, but we left him in the dust horizontally. I had warned him that would happen. Even with legs bent, you still cover a lot of ground. The haters love to pretend you fall straight down if your knees aren't locked, but that is simply not the case.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #71 October 10, 2011 QuoteEven with legs bent, you still cover a lot of ground. The haters love to pretend you fall straight down if your knees aren't locked, but that is simply not the case. While I don't believe we fall straight down if are knees aren't locked I do believe we don't fly nearly as far as we think we do when are knees are bent (45' or greater)."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #72 October 10, 2011 Quote Quote I've been in flocks with vertical fall rates over 80mph and flocks with fall rates under 40mph. I could spend $thousands on different "appropriate" suits that satisfy your unimaginative preconceptions, or use my RW weight belt to adjust so that I am comfortably in the middle of my range in either case. Given your tracking claims all you need is your RW suit for those 80mph flocks, a small wingsuit for those 60mph flocks, and your large wingsuit for those 40mph flocks ... Quote Funny, too, that you should be giving advice on how to fly to Lurch. I didn't give Lurch advice on how to fly. I did applaud him for choosing to change wingsuits to a more appropriate (smaller) wingsuit based on the performance of the formation he was flying in ... And I achieve the same effect for 1/20 the cost. Which wingsuit manufacturer is paying you to sell unnecessary suits?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #73 October 10, 2011 Quote Quote Quote I've been in flocks with vertical fall rates over 80mph and flocks with fall rates under 40mph. I could spend $thousands on different "appropriate" suits that satisfy your unimaginative preconceptions, or use my RW weight belt to adjust so that I am comfortably in the middle of my range in either case. Given your tracking claims all you need is your RW suit for those 80mph flocks, a small wingsuit for those 60mph flocks, and your large wingsuit for those 40mph flocks ... Quote Funny, too, that you should be giving advice on how to fly to Lurch. I didn't give Lurch advice on how to fly. I did applaud him for choosing to change wingsuits to a more appropriate (smaller) wingsuit based on the performance of the formation he was flying in ... And I achieve the same effect for 1/20 the cost. Which wingsuit manufacturer is paying you to sell unnecessary suits? Not buying a small suit (to go with your big suit) is only 1/2 the cost. Just because you can do it doesn't mean it's the right way to do it ... "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #74 October 10, 2011 Butters... how 'bout you give it up. It's clear you have a hard-on for large suits, you know you can't fly one, and we all know that you know. One day you'll realize that small suits are only for...... skilled WS flyers.Order yourself a P2 and get it over with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #75 October 11, 2011 Butters, sometimes there is more than one right way to do things, you know. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
