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WickedWingsuits

Independent Wingsuit Coach Database

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I did have a private chat with Omnia about the inaccuracies and concerns.

If it's truly "independent," then advertising would be equal to all parties or none parties.

Having "exclusively Tonysuits" beneath my "endorsement" isn't appropriate, and it is indicative of the marketing vehicle you're creating. The footer can easily be disabled for that page, and should be, IMO.

No one "had" to fill in any blanks. I shared with you what I was open to sharing, and you chose to generate more information than I offered.

The way this appears is exactly as feared by myself and others, but I went along with it due to your assurances, and will go along with it if you make the corrections. Otherwise, please remove me from your "not-independent" list used predominantly for marketing your services.

IMO, this conversation needs to be public so that folks understand what you're doing in the background.




You're input was in email and unstructured, the online form fits into a structured process so that things don't get on the list incorrectly. That is the case here.

I will remove you and if you decide you would like an entry please complete the form.

We are equally stubborn with our rental forms now also, in the early days we accepted emails but it lead to some errors, so now it is all form based.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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I did have a private chat with Omnia about the inaccuracies and concerns.

If it's truly "independent," then advertising would be equal to all parties or none parties.

Having "exclusively Tonysuits" beneath my "endorsement" isn't appropriate, and it is indicative of the marketing vehicle you're creating. The footer can easily be disabled for that page, and should be, IMO.

No one "had" to fill in any blanks. I shared with you what I was open to sharing, and you chose to generate more information than I offered.

The way this appears is exactly as feared by myself and others, but I went along with it due to your assurances, and will go along with it if you make the corrections. Otherwise, please remove me from your "not-independent" list used predominantly for marketing your services.

IMO, this conversation needs to be public so that folks understand what you're doing in the background.




You're input was in email and unstructured, the online form fits into a structured process so that things don't get on the list incorrectly. That is the case here.

I will remove you and if you decide you would like an entry please complete the form.

We are equally stubborn with our rental forms now also, in the early days we accepted emails but it lead to some errors, so now it is all form based.



My input was public, here on DZ.com, in this thread. Everyone can see my input.
You didn't ask me to go to an online form, and if you were stubborn about it, you would have. You did tell me in private mail that you'd "really like to have me on your database." Of course you would; for SEO, it ties my name and Elsinore to your marketing effort. You get more benefit from it than anyone else. That's not how "independent" nor fair, nor community service works.

There have been no private exchanges related to my info.
If you insist on marketing a brand of suits on an "independent database" and do not allow for a coach to make commentary about his/her skills/school/unique teaching, whatever, then please remove me from your list. It's my mistake for believing what you'd said upthread.

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This "SEO" attack is way off. I did some research on the topic and if that had been my goal then I could have just included all the infamous names in tags in my pages couldn't I?

Why would we go to so much effort to develop a map app when I could just have added the text some other way.

"Paranoia will destroy ya!"

Edited to fix an incorrect quote.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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This "SEO" attack is way off. I did some research on the topic and if that had been my goal then I could have just included all the infamous names in tags in my pages couldn't I?

Why would we go to so much effort to develop a map app when I could just have added the text some other way.

"Paranoia will destroy ya!"

Edited to fix an incorrect quote.



A new wingsuit or a cup of coffee bets that we see advertising for the "independent" database on websites or magazines.

All you have to do is remove the Tonysuit claim at the bottom of your site. This thread is full of your disclaimers that you're not using the page for advertising or bringing people to your business. It's pretty clear you are from my ground view.

I submit it's for SEO. Apparently you didn't research your SEO well; you don't get to tag people that don't want to be tagged.
Again...if you'll make your database as independent and non-WW related as you promise up-thread, I'm pleased to be on your list.

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A list of coaches who have no affiliation to WW or TS, yet appear to as per this list sure would add some nice SEO to a website looking to promote it's rental service.

Google a coach and end up on the WW site?

Why not host the list completely independently from the site, then you may got more people signing up to it?
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

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This "SEO" attack is way off. I did some research on the topic and if that had been my goal then I could have just included all the infamous names in tags in my pages couldn't I?

Why would we go to so much effort to develop a map app when I could just have added the text some other way.

"Paranoia will destroy ya!"

Edited to fix an incorrect quote.



You should read up more about SEO. that's a sure fire way to get your site blacklisted by google.
Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

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Ill just pretend I didnt see an advert for the Wicked Wingsuit coach list pop into my inbox for wingsuitnews.com:P.

If independent is the word you want to use...host it seperate, dont brand it. Or just name the critter for what it is: The Wicked Wingsuit Coach List.
Its a way of getting people to your website, and thats probably the same easy thing thats going to be in an article/advert in the USPA magazine.
"The independant coach list on www.wicked..."

Nobody minds advertising, but dont try and sell it like its not....
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I have said all along that it isn't advertising. The purpose is and always has been to give our customers a place to go to find local coaches\mentors.

Sure, if someone has a coach to go to then I can rent them an Intro or T can't I?....but it isn't the other way around, I am not using the list to create customers. I have had to turn too many customers away this year because they had no access to a FFC....I solved that problem now...or at least I am working on it.

Do you make sure someone has a coach to go to before you sell them a Prodigy or P2Z?

I don't care that you don't believe me, obviously your head is in the commercial side of things more than mine. I just want people to have someone to go to. I spend plenty of money on promotions for Wicked Wingsuits, I don't need to create a list of names for a search engine, barely any of our customers come to us via a search engine, this is skydiving after all and word of mouth is by far the biggest promoter.

I still say the list itself is independent. Who cares that is it hosted on my website. You can see more PF coaches on there than TSI's can't you?

I submitted it to WWWN because it is news...but obviously that channel is censored. ;)
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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My present to the world today will be to remove the word "Independent" from the list.

... you can forget the word Independent as it relates to the list. It will be independent, but I will keep that little secret to myself.



...and here is the post where I said the word Independent was removed...and I bet you can't find it on:

http://wickedwingsuits.com/thelist.php

I am always flexible and I did what I said I would...it is not marketed as being independent.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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I still say the list itself is independent. Who cares that is it hosted on my website. You can see more PF coaches on there than TSI's can't you?



Nope. You have an "exclusive" Tonysuit ad straight under it all, that suggests that we're all exclusively Tonysuit. I don't care for that.

I don't care what site it's hosted on. It doesn't need a WW header and an "exclusive Tonysuit" footer to be what you said it was going to be.
You can play dumb all you want, but you're obviously using this list and DZ.com to advertise.
"Barely any of your customers come by search engine?" Bull.
You've hit up non-skydiving related locations to improve your SEO, you really expect people to suck up the "dumb" act?

Didn't realize you'd graduated from Flock U school of marketing and wingsuit coaching.
Got hot deals on AAD's, too?;)

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WWWN isnt cencored. Its just not an advertising platform. It can be if you want to pay for an advert. But similar to not advertising PFC, SFly, BMI or other ratings, its just not news like the articles, videos etc we normaly post.

I understand you want your URL plastered on the frontpage....but that seems to be less about the list of 5 people, and more about your own website..;)
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I still say the list itself is independent. Who cares that is it hosted on my website. You can see more PF coaches on there than TSI's can't you?



Nope. You have an "exclusive" Tonysuit ad straight under it all, that suggests that we're all exclusively Tonysuit. I don't care for that.

I don't care what site it's hosted on. It doesn't need a WW header and an "exclusive Tonysuit" footer to be what you said it was going to be.
You can play dumb all you want, but you're obviously using this list and DZ.com to advertise.
"Barely any of your customers come by search engine?" Bull.
You've hit up non-skydiving related locations to improve your SEO, you really expect people to suck up the "dumb" act?

Didn't realize you'd graduated from Flock U school of marketing and wingsuit coaching.
Got hot deals on AAD's, too?;)




I think you guys give me a bit more credit than I deserve.....but I suppose I will take it as a compliment!

The dig about AAD's is seriously below the belt, you should think that one over a bit more before throwing something like that at me. What are you implying?

I guess this isn't advertising?

http://www.wingsuitnews.com/2011/10/jumper-spotlight.html
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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Not that I can see?
We post links to interviews, articles, videos etc

Seems to fit the bill? But I see what you're trying to do here...have fun going through all 2000+ news items to find the 'proof' you seem keen to look for..

Its much better hidden than the advertising you're doing I guesd:ph34r::P
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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You've hit up non-skydiving related locations to improve your SEO, you really expect people to suck up the "dumb" act?



I just want to blow this theory away so that people can understand not everything you say is accurate and is mostly an assumption, at least in regards to Wicked Wingsuits.

Rentabilities.com is a company I originally worked with to develop a CRM solution for WW. It didn't really work out because they were aimed more at traditional rentals but hey wanted to work with us in the future.

This is an extract from a letter from their CEO:

"Wanted to reach out to you with an update. We are almost done closing our round of financing and we expect the software we talked about to be ready soon.

I have a question for you. Do you have photos (and manufacturer and model numbers?) of the wingsuits you rent? I would like to list them in our rental marketplace and spread the word about wickedwingsuits. It's a really unique idea! If not, that's okay - I can use the information from your web site and link back to your site as well... I think you are the only wingsuit rental company around :-)".

I can ASSURE you that if I was trying to get my website plastered all over the internet you would see it in more than just one place.

Please stick to facts and drop the character assassination attempts.

Edited for spelling.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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Hopefully nobody outside of the wingsuit community is looking in on this because this argument is kind of embarrassing. Do you think prominent coaches in other disciplines would get all pissy because their name was listed on a website that had ties to a suit manufacturer other then their own? Or do you think that they would just be happy to promote their chosen discipline? This seems to be a problem very unique to the wingsuit community. So much inner strife for no logical reason.

PS I didn't even notice the footer until you pointed it out and I doubt most people did as well.
I like fuzzy bunnys!!!

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Not that I can see?
We post links to interviews, articles, videos etc

Seems to fit the bill? But I see what you're trying to do here...have fun going through all 2000+ news items to find the 'proof' you seem keen to look for..

Its much better hidden than the advertising you're doing I guesd:ph34r::P



Seems rather better hidden than the advertizing on "Fly Like a Brick" web site which claims to give honest advice but then blatantly pushes one particular brand.:P
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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'FlyLikeBrick' is our website. 'Fly Like A Brick' is the name Simon uses for SEO reasons on his frontpage....

That aside...I don't claim FLB is independant. We're big PF loving munchkins all the way....that doesnt make our advise about safety any less honest...nor do the articles and instructional videos sell any product aside the safety.

Its not hard to catch me on not being independent. I never say I am. Simon incorrectly does however.

If you Fly Like A Brick, give it up already.....haha....No idea about SEO and what it is my ass:D:S
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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[reply
You've hit up non-skydiving related locations to improve your SEO, you really expect people to suck up the "dumb" act?



I just want to blow this theory away so that people can understand not everything you say is accurate and is mostly an assumption, at least in regards to Wicked Wingsuits.

Rentabilities.com is a company I originally worked with to develop a CRM solution for WW. It didn't really work out because they were aimed more at traditional rentals but hey wanted to work with us in the future.

This is an extract from a letter from their CEO:

"Wanted to reach out to you with an update. We are almost done closing our round of financing and we expect the software we talked about to be ready soon.

I have a question for you. Do you have photos (and manufacturer and model numbers?) of the wingsuits you rent? I would like to list them in our rental marketplace and spread the word about wickedwingsuits. It's a really unique idea! If not, that's okay - I can use the information from your web site and link back to your site as well... I think you are the only wingsuit rental company around :-)".

I can ASSURE you that if I was trying to get my website plastered all over the internet you would see it in more than just one place.

Please stick to facts and drop the character assassination attempts.

Edited for spelling.




Simon, it's not character assasination.
It's my mistake for believing that you'd do as you'd indicated you'd do, I shouldn't have believed your altruistic description.
My mistake. I'm over it.

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You're not alone.

Hence the apprehension of such a list from numerous folks in this thread.

Everything WW does reeks of marketing leverage.

What do I know? I never rented a wingy suit and don't understand a need for such a service. Especially at those prices.
Maybe I should be thankful for when I started wingies.
:P

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If you want to debate Rent vs Buy do you think you could do it in a separate thread and leave this one for discussion regarding a consolidate wingsuit coach list please?
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

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