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WickedWingsuits

Independent Wingsuit Coach Database

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The thing Im basically trying to say is, unless you have some form of actually illiminating the bad coaches from that list, you may as well just let people find those bad ones by themselves instead of helping them.

Aside from a big 'look how many names we have here' list, there will be little to no vallue in such a list if it doesnt exclude dangerous individuals that should be kept away from teaching as far as possible.

For sure, its impossible to stop. But to give everyone who owns a wingsuit a listing as coach, if they want to. Without ANY checking or validation of them skills. Whats the point of such a list?

You're maybe helping people find a good teacher, but you're also maybe putting them in contact with a person that may assist in unstructured homicide....

For all the hoopla made about such a list, it seems like a waste of time and effort if there isnt any outside validation of skills/knowledge..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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BTW, how could you possibly be truely independent if your website states: "Proud to be Exclusively TonySuits", "chicks dig tonysuits" and other stuff!?



Tony Suits doesn't provide a manufacturer FFC so how could it make us biased? This is about FFC's....not about suits, don't try to make it into a manufacturer debate because it isn't.
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BTW, how could you possibly be truely independent if your website states: "Proud to be Exclusively TonySuits", "chicks dig tonysuits" and other stuff!?



Tony Suits doesn't provide a manufacturer FFC so how could it make us biased? This is about FFC's....not about suits, don't try to make it into a manufacturer debate because it isn't.



so, the WSI isnt TS!?

of course you wouldnt want to admit to certain people affiliated with TS having killed students in the past, because that would look bad on you.. ;)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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BTW, how could you possibly be truely independent if your website states: "Proud to be Exclusively TonySuits", "chicks dig tonysuits" and other stuff!?



Tony Suits doesn't provide a manufacturer FFC so how could it make us biased? This is about FFC's....not about suits, don't try to make it into a manufacturer debate because it isn't.



so, the WSI isnt TS!?

of course you wouldnt want to admit to certain people affiliated with TS having killed students in the past, because that would look bad on you.. ;)



What is WSI?

Would you like to layout how exactly how you think Wicked Wingsuits is related to this accident you refer to? Please be very clear with your accusation.
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WingSuit Instructor? You seriously didn't get that???

He clearly stated that he feels that you being TS specific could been seen by others as an association with Tonysuits. One of their instructors was in many opinions, at fault in a fatality.
It's the whole assumption of responsibility for a student's life once you attain the title of Instructor.

So are you claiming you wouldn't mind if that association exists in people's minds?

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WingSuit Instructor? You seriously didn't get that???

He clearly stated that he feels that you being TS specific could been seen by others as an association with Tonysuits. One of their instructors was in many opinions, at fault in a fatality.
It's the whole assumption of responsibility for a student's life once you attain the title of Instructor.

So are you claiming you wouldn't mind if that association exists in people's minds?



Amazing that this is somehow turning into a brand war.

Think what you like.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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No I won't call you to discuss, but thanks for asking.

How did you translate what I said into WW being involved in a fatality???
The word "association" in my post does not translate to "involvement". Not in my mind anyway.

I think I'll let you folks back to your pissing matches, but thanks for reminding me AGAIN why I have lost most of my interest in wingsuiting.

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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.



"Pops up"? You are out of touch, maybe too much time spent on here writing comments and making up stories. We just celebrated our 1 year anniversary. We rent suits, we do not provide direct training through the company of Wicked Wingsuits.

Again, for the record we are 100% independent but we do have a preferred supplier. Could it be someone other than Tony Suits in the future? Could be...hope not but could be.

Your suggestion that we have ANY relationship to past accidents and stolen AAD's is 100% fantasy and frankly an offensive suggestion. You don't know me and you don't know my ethics.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.



oh, and for the pissing matches; for some reason only TS is involved with such malpractice. i wont even mention stealing course-materials from other schools/manufacturers because that is hard to prove (for me anyway).

again, how can you possibly be truely independant if you only work with TS? there's FYB, PF and a whole shitload of new manufacturers from the east now..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.



oh, and for the pissing matches; for some reason only TS is involved with such malpractice. i wont even mention stealing course-materials from other schools/manufacturers because that is hard to prove (for me anyway).

again, how can you possibly be truely independant if you only work with TS? there's FYB, PF and a whole shitload of new manufacturers from the east now..



I don't think you have much of a business mind....
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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.



"Pops up"? You are out of touch, maybe too much time spent on here writing comments and making up stories. We just celebrated our 1 year anniversary. We rent suits, we do not provide direct training through the company of Wicked Wingsuits.

Again, for the record we are 100% independent but we do have a preferred supplier. Could it be someone other than Tony Suits in the future? Could be...hope not but could be.

Your suggestion that we have ANY relationship to past accidents and stolen AAD's is 100% fantasy and frankly an offensive suggestion. You don't know me and you don't know my ethics.



i havent suggested anything. i just offered my thoughts on the subject. if you feel offended by that, well, so be it!

oh, and the brandwars-comment also doesnt fly with me, since i do actually jump a TS.. :)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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i think normiss puts it quite well..

havent said WW was involved with that fatality, but what i said is that the TS WSI-rating quickly changed into FlockU once that fatality occured.

now that FU also has a bad name for selling stolen test-AAD's, WW pops up!?

kind of a lot of "coincidences" for my taste.



oh, and for the pissing matches; for some reason only TS is involved with such malpractice. i wont even mention stealing course-materials from other schools/manufacturers because that is hard to prove (for me anyway).

again, how can you possibly be truely independant if you only work with TS? there's FYB, PF and a whole shitload of new manufacturers from the east now..



I don't think you have much of a business mind....



and such a comment is plenty of proof for me at least that your "involvment" with TS is bigger than you would lkie to acknowledge; again, i'm not "suggesting" you've had anything to do with the stuff i've mentioned earlier, but it raises reasonable doubt of your motives..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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I am ashamed to admit it is all true....Tony and I have a cunning plan to take over the world of wing suiting by distributing a list of unworthy instructors that we hope will badly injure the majority of non-TS fanboys.


NOT

Anyway, I am getting back to my list and my business. Carry on.
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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WalMart has yet to pair with ONLY one supplier yet they seem to be quite successful. If profits are what you're after in 'business' anyway.
:P



Well, that's because Walmart sells more than just one product isn't it? DOH.....
Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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I am ashamed to admit it is all true....Tony and I have a cunning plan to take over the world of wing suiting by distributing a list of unworthy instructors that we hope will badly injure the majority of non-TS fanboys.


NOT

Anyway, I am getting back to my list and my business. Carry on.



well, resorting to childish behaviour clearly doesnt help.. but hey, if it works for you and your "buisness", great, enjoy the dollars! :)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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so, the WSI isnt TS!?



Actually no, the WSI was spearheaded and championed to the USPA by Spot. A high level of motivation came from two very unfortunate incidents he was close to for various reasons. His desire to increase safety in the sport has lead him to being involved with developing first the Phoenix Fly Coach program and then morph it over to and expand upon it to what is now the Skydive Elsinore Wingsuit School. "WSI" does not have anything to do with Tony Suits or PF or any other manufacturer.

There was a group of about 6 people involved in putting it together "think tank" style that Sport helped coordinate. Each person ended up contributing to the presentation of a WSI rating that was made to the USPA BOD. The end result was not a rating but instead an addition/expansion in the SIM with what is now Section 6-9: Wingsuit Recommendations. Wingsuit First Flight Course (FFC) Syllabus
http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section6/tabid/169/Default.aspx#984


I'm not in favor of more regulation either, but at least with USPA-designed/collated training, training would be consistent, instructors could be held accountable, and instructors would be tested or have documented evidence of their training for their renewals every year just as we are now.
...............
If nothing else, hopefully a better educational focus on the part of the USPA will help reduce the number of "stooge instructors" that are out there.


The List that WW is working on generating is something that could be good in helping people get the instruction they might be looking for and can be looked at as another step forward in helping increase safety opportunities for jumpers wanting to fly a Wingsuit. The only semi-valid argument on the effectiveness of "Instructors" or "coaches" is one that can be applied to ANY generated list. There is nothing to stop someone from stamping themselves as a "person of knowledge" given no regulated WSI rating exists. Pulling brand or personal issues into this thread is plain stupid and defeats the purpose of what Simon is trying to do.

Scott C.
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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If profits are what you're after in 'business' anyway.



Now this thread has gone full retard.

Anybody who even remotely knows Simon knows that he has a profit motive for everything he does. :)
(But, just so everyone is clear, this is intended as good natured ribbing; I respect his morals, too...)

Actually, I stand corrected - after I scrolled up and read Virgin Burner's comments, I now realize it went full retard before that.
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Actually no, the WSI



Jeff, Justin and a few others from TonySuits used WSI numbers/ratings without an actual silibus/teaching materials behind it, long before the USPA push you mention. Those are actually two seperate things.
The (non USPA) WSI rating has been on website resumes of some people for a long time, but required less effort than being a part of pink mafia or the muff brothers:P

This whole thing goes beyond what Im interested in (why forward people to persons giving bad instruction, why not validate and stand for GOOD teaching. Be it with or without a branded rating), but also perfectly illustrates that people enjoy being on such lists etc. just as some written form of validation for their teaching.

If I forward someone to a person who wil teach them. Damn right I feel responsible for making sure that person knows what he´s teaching....
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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If I forward someone to a person who wil teach them. Damn right I feel responsible for making sure that person knows what he´s teaching....



yet you jumped with me!? :P
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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I like the idea, as the list is opened to coaches from all horizons.
Just needs "some" validation of credentials. There might be some very good coaches without a national/manufacturer rating, certainly lots of them actually.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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I jumped with you, and even a funjump.
But for now I sure wouldnt put you on a list of people to see when they need wingsuit coaching:P



but-but.. i can backfly! :P
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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