JFX really suitable for wingsuit ?

[ataltitude 0]

So has anyone else jumped the jfx with a ws. I jump a crossfire 2 loaded at 1.7 and love it. A friend jumps a 86 jvx and also done a ws with a petra

[verticalflyer 11]

Read the forums there is enough information out there without asking the same dumb questions over and over again. Sorry if this sounds harsh but the answer is bloody obvious. You fly more high loaded elliptical canopies and you fly with increased risk period and with potential for more unpredictable openings.

Dont just talk about it, Do it!

[simonfly 0]

I've been jumping a Katana 97 for almost 200jumps now without any serious problems. I use it now on an Apache X and I'm having good openings. Now any parachute can be OK for ws if you are comfortable with the openings and flying characteristic etc. Being a swooper and after Talking with Tony U., I will also try to get my hands on a JFX and try it out. It apparently opens really soft and whenever it comes out in a line twist, It spins out of it instantly on inflation of the canopy. Semms good to me and I can't wait to try it.

[lurch 0]

How small do you want to cut your margin for error?

The last friend I lost due to combining elliptical with wingsuit was Pete Luter a couple years back. Word is his Stiletto spun up so fast it appeared to have knocked him out, unresponsive, when he woke up and chopped, he was very very low...game over.

Yes it can be done but its widely known to be ill-advised.
Since all I do is wingsuit and I like a fat margin for error I've stuck to Sabres. As a result I've had exactly 1 cutaway in a 9 year wingsuit career.

Is a sportier canopy ride worth cutting your safety margin in half? I've considered going elliptical myself, but given how very many "bad idea" reports there have been, I just don't want to go there. I have plenty of fun with a Sabre 120 and it leaves me a bit of forgiving room to make mistakes, deal with a busted zipper or a situation that is just not going to plan. I didn't go above a 1.3 loading till I'd been in the sport for 9 years already... and I watched plenty of others have MUCH shorter careers in the sport by the same thinking you're hoping we will help you justify.

Its your choice, but the choice you want to make is not a very good one and cuts your odds of long term survival dramatically. Tony Uragallo has about 30 years in the sport. His standards should not be yours. There are things to know about packjobs and flying your openings that you won't even know that you don't know for several more years. Here, thinking like a cautious noob is the way to go... you live longer.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[DSE 3]

It's frequently not about the guy who can fly the canopy, it's about the increased risk to others around them.

Flying in a dynamic flock means that openings will not always be on-heading, not perfect, because sometimes it's not possible to have everything perfect after breakoff.

[birdynamnam 28]

Thats right, if a wingsuiter fkying in formation with others chooses to fly a small elliptical or a crossbraced sportsparachute, that wingsuiter is making the particular jump less safe for all participants. I had aprox. 200 WS jumps in a Xfire with no incidents, then I had 2 spinner/cutts in quick succession for no apparent reason other than they just happened. At the time I was mostly doing 2-ways so no problem other than grounding myself for the day, landing out, searching the countryside for the main and freebag. About that time I transitioned to fly mostly bigways, so I thought that a Sabre2 was right and yup it is. Did you know that Flyyourbody writes this in their Wingsuit manuals:

Use a predictable, on heading opening canopy for S-Fly™ Wing-suit jumps. Elliptical and small canopies are prohibited.
For your security, we strongly recommend you to choose the following characteristics for your main canopy
- Non elliptical canopy
- 135 Sqft minimum main canopy size

(PS I believe size is no only WL related, but also has to do with line length)

[WickedWingsuits 0]

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Flying in a dynamic flock means that openings will not always be on-heading.

What does this mean? How does a "dynamic" flock influence the way a canopy opens?

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[WickedWingsuits 0]

I think a nice square and large canopy is a more conservative choice for wingsuiting. When jumping with students we insist on it for the first jumps. We have a few Sabres laying around for such use.

Having said that, once you know what wingsuit deployments are like on a bad day it is personal choice. I have had more cutaways on a "wingsuit friendly" 9 cell main than some of my friends on JFX and Velo's. I won't pretend to lecture them on deployments.

If you want to play in large groups then other factors start to come in to play. However it is a mistake to think that a docile canopy is safe for wingsuiting as much as an elliptical is dangerous, either can be fine or make your day a bad one.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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[mccordia 73]

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However it is a mistake to think that a docile canopy is safe for wingsuiting as much as an elliptical is dangerous, either can be fine or make your day a bad one.

The chances of opening issues/off headings in general is going to be much higher on the more aggressive canopy. And if both screw up with an offheading opening, guess which one is going to give you more violent/quick things to deal with.

I really dont get all the fringe talk when it comes to safety. You really seem to make it a trend to try and find stuff where you can advise against the common taught safety standards. But maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say.

Focus on the broad strokes and more common sense choices in safety in what you teach, and don't focus so much on those one or two lucky exceptions. It will make your teaching and students a whole lot safer in terms of LO/Coaching work and the general safety and gear choices you'll inspire them to make down the line. Just my 2 cents.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[uberchris 0]

is a safire2 loaded at 1.6 really pushing the WS envelope, or is it not a huge deal being that its not a fully elliptical canopy?
anyone jump WS with this setup?

gravity brings me down.........

[WickedWingsuits 0]

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However it is a mistake to think that a docile canopy is safe for wingsuiting as much as an elliptical is dangerous, either can be fine or make your day a bad one.

The chances of opening issues/off headings in general is going to be much higher on the more aggressive canopy. And if both screw up with an offheading opening, guess which one is going to give you more violent/quick things to deal with.

I really dont get all the fringe talk when it comes to safety. You really seem to make it a trend to try and find stuff where you can advise against the common taught safety standards. But maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say.

Focus on the broad strokes and more common sense choices in safety in what you teach, and don't focus so much on those one or two lucky exceptions. It will make your teaching and students a whole lot safer in terms of LO/Coaching work and the general safety and gear choices you'll inspire them to make down the line. Just my 2 cents.

You must have speed read over this part:

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I think a nice square and large canopy is a more conservative choice for wingsuiting. When jumping with students we insist on it for the first jumps. We have a few Sabres laying around for such use.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[WickedWingsuits 0]

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Tony U jumps one and loves it. Says it opens way better than his Saber 2 and better on heading. All he jumps is wingsuits. I am going to demo one and see how it goes. When I talked with Tony he loved the canopy.

How did the demo go?

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[DSE 3]

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Flying in a dynamic flock means that openings will not always be on-heading.

What does this mean? How does a "dynamic" flock influence the way a canopy opens?

Ask a wingsuit instructor.

[VectorBoy 0]

I really dont get all the fringe talk when it comes to safety. You really seem to make it a trend to try and find stuff where you can advise against the common taught safety standards. But maybe I'm just not getting what you're trying to say.

[mccordia 73]

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You don't own the WS instructor/ examiner world yet.

Are you implying I will some day?
I must have missed the part where I talked about wingsuit instructors and a growing empire in that post, as all I could see was me questioning Simon sometimes advocating weird safety choices, and me personally preferring to stick to the tried and proven ones we've used for years, more related to common sense (that you also repeat later in your post?).

You don't have students? Giving advice, be it online or in person, you have to remember yourself every once in a while that people with less experience will be taking your word as their gospel. So it doesn't hurt to keep that advice on the safe side.

Telling people a more aggressive canopy may end up being a better choice in a very weird wording, to me, sounded like a very strange type of advice, not related to the orginal post/question. Your answer (that small part about X-braced canopies) was the only direct answer I read, but shame you mostly seemed to use it as an opening on an unrelated axe you had to grind on wingsuit instruction.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[VectorBoy 0]

The advice I gave was to not have a WS cuttaway regardless of chute choice.


That other stuff= not advice, not gospel and not a lie. Its just stuff. The thing you should remember also not yo puppet

[The111 0]

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is a safire2 loaded at 1.6 really pushing the WS envelope, or is it not a huge deal being that its not a fully elliptical canopy?
anyone jump WS with this setup?

I've never jumped a safire, but I jump a Pilot (docile 9-cell) loaded at nearly 1.6, and I consider myself a very conservative canopy flyer. I rarely get twists, and when I do, it flies straight and untwists itself before I can even try to work on it.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[WickedWingsuits 0]

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Quote

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Flying in a dynamic flock means that openings will not always be on-heading.

What does this mean? How does a "dynamic" flock influence the way a canopy opens?

Ask a wingsuit instructor.

I thought I did.

I don't see what the flock part of the jump has to do with the opening. Are you saying what you do with your Wingsuit prior to break off lingers around and affects the canopy opening? Is it because the main gets all shook up in there or something?

It is a fair question, I don't get the link. Regardless of the jump I like to break off in a nice stable position and pull sometime later. Mixing a carve and an opening is a bad idea, you might want to break off earlier if you are finding that issue a lot.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

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[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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is a safire2 loaded at 1.6 really pushing the WS envelope, or is it not a huge deal being that its not a fully elliptical canopy?
anyone jump WS with this setup?

I don't see any problem with that setup at all. I've been doing this since "this" existed in the USA.

[piisfish 135]

Quote

Quote

is a safire2 loaded at 1.6 really pushing the WS envelope, or is it not a huge deal being that its not a fully elliptical canopy?
anyone jump WS with this setup?

I don't see any problem with that setup at all. I've been doing this since "this" existed in the USA.

the onyl remark I would have with that is if Uberchris has effectively 200 something jumps. Maybe a 1.6 loaded canopy is not the smartest idea. But then again I might not be a SoFPiDaRF instructor...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Venom1986 0]

I love my JFX
I've three line twists with wingsuit so far and all where the same the JFX twist and than blocked in one direction. Also I've one cutaway line over with wingsuit. He opens normally (Sitting up in the harness) and than he spins without evil line twist.
Here is a video. Not only my best openings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=jMcDetsT2B4

[Venom1986 0]

By 9 minutes you can see Tony´s 111sqft JFX.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZ1OMR6VsQ

[simonfly 0]

Hey,
what size is your JFX at 1.5wl?

[Venom1986 0]

My size is 125 sqft.