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HGpilot

Slow flight ?

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Yes, but it takes a good pilot in the right suit for him or her.

For a related concept, check out the XRW projects here: http://vimeo.com/11880206 (no, not the first time a link up had ever been done, but definitely the prettiest). Later efforts (including a three/six way) can be found here: http://vimeo.com/15776958

It's pretty neat stuff.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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WOW ! Great video's . i was completely surprised that a pilot with a chute deployed could keep up with a wing suit . simply amazing.



Amazing indeed.
The parachutes are trimmed on the front-risers in most cases. Putting them at a very steep angle of attack. For a wingsuit to fly with a canopy without a steep set trim, the canopy has to be very small (and wingsuit pilot very good).

Without this steep line-trim, such attempts will often more resemble FlyBy's (slow or fast passing of a canopy).
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I have been wondering if it is possible to fly in formation with a wing suit pilot with my hang glider.



How much forward speed would you be carrying if you had your HG going 30mph down?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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I have been wondering if it is possible to fly in formation with a wing suit pilot with my hang glider.



How much forward speed would you be carrying if you had your HG going 30mph down?

30mph is 44f/s, 13.5m/s which seems to be a GREAT dive for hanggliders. Would be interesting to know what kind of speed you would reach in such a sustained dive. MAybe need to trim the glider to be able to keep it in such a dive ? maybe need to detune it ?
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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30 mph is what the best flyers seem to score as the maximum performance in competitions such as gransee/marl etc. This means no range in speed to actually work towards the hangglider.

Around 38 to 40 mph is the speed at which most of these attempts fly, so that would also be the best aim for the hangglider..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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MAybe need to trim the glider to be able to keep it in such a dive ? maybe need to detune it ?



That's what I was thinking about. Seems like it'd be more difficult to fit a drogue or airbrakes to an HG than to a sailplane.:P Probably a way to slow it down somehow though.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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How slow can a wing suit pilot fall ? At 2;40 in this video the pilot says as slow as 30 mph . Is that accurate ?
I have been wondering if it is possible to fly in formation with a wing suit pilot with my hang glider.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThXwCXV_olM



Hi HGpilot, It could work, but bear in mind that the center of gravity from a HG is a pendulum, therefore to dive the pilot need to pull the bar until his knees witch can make the hanglider a bit unstable to control.

If the Hangglider was connected to the back of the pilot then the dive would be perfect and easy to do, just like a sailplane.

I think it can be done, something that would make it easier is a big pilot using a small hangliders for small pilots, a hanglider around 9 to 12 square meters (90square feet).

With the small HG the guy will have worse sink rate but better speed to keep up with the wingsuit.

The only problem is the landing, because the hanglider will be a missile, very fast indeed for landing.

All the best

PS. If you make it, I post the video I wanna see it =)
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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in reply to "How slow can a wing suit pilot fall ? At 2;40 in this video the pilot says as slow as 30 mph . Is that accurate ?
I have been wondering if it is possible to fly in formation with a wing suit pilot with my hang glider. "
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gday HGpilot,
I really like your threads.
your other one was a beauty.:D

Its as if a true flier has descended amongst us to show us the path back to flight.;)

Perhaps as wingsuits become more like hang gliders weall can form a new type of club that has gliding as its basis not just parachuting.
And if all the females are gunna be like Giselle then wowee we're all in for a good time.
...but that's in the future so I better be careful round here amoungst all the (male) flat earthers.

Well placed batons on a wingsuit seem like such a good idea.
Anyone who has actually had to put a HG together before a flight knows how important they are to maintaining a good aerofoil shape.
With well placed controllable batons wingsuiters could actually get control over their wings and (gasp) make use of things like wash-out and variable camber.

Oh on that baton point any-one with a V2 ? It might be prudent to check the control batons on the wing-tips.
Mine cut themselves loose and after removing one from my chest cavity after a landing I found it was made from aluminium tubing which had been sharpened like a hole punch.

BTW HG pilot do you know the smallest hang glider that has been flown and it swing loadings

Keep up the great thread work.:)

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Matching the speeds should be doable. Matching the trajectory will be the trick.

Ryan Voight hit 118 mph in a dive , that is the fastest speed I know of. I would say 85 or 90 is a more practical number.

Drogue chutes are common but they are attached to the harness not the glider. A better solution would be to just use a more or less draggier harness in order to match the trajectory of the wing suit .

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Wills wing makes a 135 with max hook in of 200 lbs that works out to 1.93 lbs per sq foot including the weight of the glider.




Would need to be a higher WL. See video.

Xaos 21 sq ft canopy wingsuit dock
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I'm not sure that the wing loading is all that important . Matching the decent and the forward speed is the key .

.



You are confusing a design variable (wing loading) with performance outcomes (descent rate and forward speed). You achieve performance by adjusting design variables.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Hi KrisFlyZ,
Thanks for your reply in the recently locked 'Hand glider' thread re washout . As washout directly relates to slow flight characteristics I hope its OK to continue the discussion in this thread.

you stated in the other thread:
"Washout? Seriously!! It can be done to some extent in practice on today's suits. This can be seen in videos and on posts made here by people that have figured it out from experience.

On fabric wings, the technology does not exist to allow the designer to have strict control on the run-time shape of the wing and also allow the human flying it maximum ease of flight. Trying to implement wing washout without pilot input is not possible on soft fabric wings.

The span of a wing suit is roughly 6ft, without a sizable wingtip, the area of the suit goes down drastically. How much washout would drastically reduce the induced drag of a low aspect ratio wing? Angle of incidence, Camber, thickness etc. parameters have all been used in real world implementations since 2004. Angle of incidence has seen both sides of zero. "
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Washout ? Seiously ?
Yes I'm seriously interested in its application to WS's . I've used washout since childhood in model aeroplanes and like its ability to change a poor performing aircraft into a nice flyer.

Wingsuits have such poor flight performance they need every little bit of help they can get.
Allowing for improved use of washout is just another little thing that can help improve WS flight performance.

I suppose the key here is that with pilot input the use of wash out is a viable option ... especially if the slow flight characteristics of a suit are to be improved.
As you stated its already in use on some suits to a certain degree just not built in as such.
Washout is not just useful at slow speeds as it can help the flow of air over a wing even at high speeds and it helps reduce wing tip drag .
As you are no doubt aware (although some readers may not be ) washout can keep the outer part of the wing flying after the inner wing has stalled thereby improving stall characteristics.
Ie the wing doesn't all stall at once giving the pilot time to react and sense a stall as it approaches.

No doubt expert wingsuiters use control input washout without thinking about it too much if their suit allows for it to a degree.

The inability of current fabric WS's to easily make extensive use of built in washout is another indication of fabric WS design limitations.

Most modern wings have washout .
I believe it is possible to enhance its use in WS's perhaps by the increased use of wing tip batons or the enlargement of the wingtips along the lines of what GiselleMartins has shared with us.

......................................................................

In that other thread
I said "I'm expecting the BM Classic to be reinvented anytime soon it was a great suit. Laugh"

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You replied "Is that is all you can see of the ideas that went into wingsuit development since the Classic? "

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No. I'm impressed with the performance increase my V2 has in comparison to the my Classic2.
Anyone would be .
However performance gains seem to be slowing down now .

Its difficult to get excited about the small incremental changes on offer at the moment.
IMHO the minute % improvements don't seem to be worth the ever increasing trade up price for less performance gain.

It'd be good to see the manufacturers being more aerodynamically adventurous not resting so much on their ram air fed fabric marvels.

In the meantime the Classic is just that a true Classic design, innovation for its time and groundbreaking in its commercial application.

Like I said I'm waiting for a new classic to be invented....(not holding breath)
Perhaps a real slick one with partially non-fabric batoned wingtips incorporating just the right degree of controllable washout.[;

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