Difference between Phantom2 and Phantom2z

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to buy a wingsuit, but I was hoping I could get a bit more info on the difference on what I'd be buying.

I'm wondering what the differences between the Phantom2 and Phantom2z are, aside from the rig connection method (zipper vs "threading")

Is the 2z different? Revised? Airlocked vs not airlocked, legwing size, reinforcements, anything?

Thanks!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[DSE 3]

There is no cabled P2 anymore, so they're the same.
If you're looking at an older P2, there may have been some minor changes with regards to booties, inlet placement, grippers slightly diff, and of course, old P2's have cables to connect the wings.
The P2 zippered is now standard equipment.
The option to consider if you're buying new is to get backfly inlets (can't imagine buying without em')

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Thanks DSE,

I'm looking at buying a used suit and essentially have the choice between a 2z and a 2. I prefer the 2 as it should be a better fit, but I want to know if I'm giving anything essential up.

Does the 2 have backfly inlets?

Thanks!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[DSE 3]

Quote

Does the 2 have backfly inlets?

Thanks!

I dunno. Does it? It's an option, so it's a question for the original owner. it might have a base pocket/shrivel too (not to be used for skydiving). And maybe has an LQRS.
Or not. Ask the owner.

[Jbag 0]

Quote

Quote

Does the 2 have backfly inlets?

Thanks!

I dunno. Does it? It's an option, so it's a question for the original owner. it might have a base pocket/shrivel too (not to be used for skydiving). And maybe has an LQRS.
Or not. Ask the owner.

you shouldnt use the BASE pouch for skydiving even if you set up your rig properly?

IHYD

[DSE 3]

Will you describe setting up your rig properly (in compliance with the TSO) and using a shrivel for skydiving?

[Jbag 0]

Quote

Will you describe setting up your rig properly (in compliance with the TSO) and using a shrivel for skydiving?

setting up properly is attaching the bridle with sewn on shrivel flap with the proper girth hitch to your main canopy which does not need a TSO approval since its your primary canopy. the deployment of your main is not a system that gets TSO'd. its no different than using the older ROL deployment systems. now you can attach the proper sized PC for your canopy type and make sure it fits in the "BASE" pouch properly (not too tight and not loose).

IHYD

[jdatc 0]

Quote

. it might have a base pocket/shrivel too (not to be used for skydiving). And maybe has an LQRS.
Or not. Ask the owner.

Holy shit. Here we go again with the base pouch skydiving discussion...

DSE how many wingsuit skydives or base jumps do you have with a pouch? Please answer this first in your reply.

I have better than almost 500 hundred wingsuit skydives on suits (phantom, V2, and V3) with a base pouch for training purposes.

I have an additional few hundred skydives on the BOC with the same suits and my Stealth in skydiving.

I have approx 200 wingsuit base jumps using the pouch as well with the phantom, V2 and V3.

Please enlighten us to why the pouch is dangerous and your experience with such.

Bottom line, the pouch is what it is, manage it as such. It's not neccessary in skydiving unless you are dumping low or training muscle memory for base, but it certainly not the death trap that some make it out to be.

I love all the people that rally agains't it with no experience.


_justin

[DSE 3]

Did I suggest the shrivel was dangerous?
Where?

And yes, I have wingsuit skydives with a pouch.

Gotta love people who flip out over their own (wrongful) perceptions.

[jdatc 0]

Quote

Did I suggest the shrivel was dangerous?
Where?

And yes, I have wingsuit skydives with a pouch.

Gotta love people who flip out over their own (wrongful) perceptions.

You say not to be used for skydiving. But with no reason why.

Then you post

Quote

Will you describe setting up your rig properly (in compliance with the TSO) and using a shrivel for skydiving?

sorry, I apologize. You did not say it was dangerous for skydiving, but you certainly alluded to it not being used for skydiving, did you not?

Why? And why mention the TSO?

How many skydives do you have on the pouch again?

Any opinion about the pouch not being used for skydiving and concern with TSO's I like to see backed-up with real world experience and fact , because every post on the subject (using the pouch in skydiving) seems to be by someone who does not have significant expereince with the pouch.

If it wasn't bad form, I'd post my PM from Robi I got 3 years ago about the pouch.

_justin

[DSE 3]

Drop Robi a note. I'm sure he wouldn't mind you sharing; he's a very open and educationally-minded guy.

My own personal "real-world" experience (outside of successful pouch deployments) is a Russian guy to my left with a shrivel having a premie, coming within a couple of feet of me as he deployed.
Another experience was a different Russian guy who also had a premie in a formation.
Then there was the Belgian dude that had a premie in the float position. Coulda been really bad had the PC gone over the tail.
I talked to him for a while; he bought the suit used and thought 'that's just the way it's done" with his 26" PC.
I have fewer than a dozen pouch deployments (certainly not significant), but now have a newer suit that fits nicely, and a rig I can use with it. I expect to have more in a week or so. I'll look like Cate screamin' across the sky.


Shrivels imply a specific thought process based on experience, experience which a non-wingsuiter doesn't have. It also implies responsiblities in the plane, responsibilities as the one rigging something different. There is a responsiblity to other skydivers too, so that they know that a pouch is being used.
I certainly don't see them as the dramatic "death traps" you paint them to be. I see em' as something that requires some thought and intentionality, perhaps some maturity and experience.

The OP has zero wingsuit skydives.
For him, my answer is "not to be used for skydiving." I probably should have added the caveat "for a long while."

Hopefully that puts water on your anti-anti-shrivel bitch inferno.

[jdatc 0]

Well thank you for clarifying your experience.

Certainly you cite interesting examples.

I agree that the pouch does imply certain responsabilities to others and oneself. Perhaps if you stated that in the begining instead of your not to be used in skydiving response, I would have agreed.

You should realize you are now held to a higher standard, being an 'Examiner' and all now, and that you should try to reply in a way that is clear, lucid and correct 100% of the time when talking about wingsuit subjects.

Maybe you could take a deep breath, A listerine strip and then write your reply...

And what was the TSO thing again?

Apologies to the other poster for derailing the thread. Zippers are great. Having flown a Phantom 2 with cables and one with zippers, I love no cables. My v3 and stealth have zippers, and it makes it tough to take my V2 and phantom out as often since I am lazy. Zippers are worth a lot of $$$ in my opinion, especially if you take the suit off the rig a bit.


_justin

edit cause I drink.

[millertime24 8]

This been a question Ive had as well. Ive seen pleanty of talk of the 2z, but I have absolutely no idea what seperates this from the P2.

Muff #5048

[LukeH 0]

Quote

This been a question Ive had as well. Ive seen pleanty of talk of the 2z, but I have absolutely no idea what seperates this from the P2.

Zip connection system rather than teflon cables. While there may be a few other minor tweaks they are cosmetic\manufacturing related - otherwise it would have been called the Phantom 3. Think of it as Phantom2 (zip version).

[mccordia 73]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3906334;

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Great, Thanks for the info everyone! This answers my questions, and I am soon to be the proud new owner of a Phantom2!

@DSE: FWIW, I do have 40 WS jumps, I'm just buying a used suit. I simply wanted to know the difference was before I committed to the deal. Like I said, I had the option of a P2 or a P2z.

Thanks!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[kevin922 0]

just to jump in and throw my 2c's in... i've got at least 75 - 100 S3 jumps w a pouch... 0 base jumps with it, all skydives using a TSO rig (but that really is irrelevant).

It can be used safely for skydives, but I highly recommend only doing belly flying with it. The other concern is exposure to relative wind while standing in the door of an AC. Not Having PC properly shoved into the pouch can cause a little of it to catch wind and get pulled out causing a premie... this + standing in the door is a bad situation for all. If you're going to jump it check it numerous times as you're practically sitting on it while in the airplane, and moving around can cause it to move in the pouch -- possibly out of the pouch.

[mccordia 73]

Quote

It can be used safely for skydives,

Seeing as you are probably refering to solo BASE practice/training. I fully agree.

But do note there is a long, long list of premature deployments related to (correct) use of the BASE pouch. So treat it with respect.
If flying solo, no big issue. But already on a simple 2 way, a simple brush past a leg with a fellow jumpers' armwing, foot, helmet or hand is enough to dislodge the pilotchute and cause a heap of trouble. Something that can happen to anyone in the exit or during the jump itself.

Ive got close to 1000 wingsuit jumps in suits with wings as small as a camerasuit, to wings the size of the space shuttle.
If you feel you need the base pouch on any wingsuit, use the BOC and just pull a few hundred feet higher (and perhaps even think about jumping a suit that better fits your experience level).

There are many threads on this subject. But the many incidents/near-accidents related to the BASE pouch, tell us the whole story. And its not all premature deployments by 'idiots'. Most are capable, trained and intelligent flyers, who just got into an unexpected emergency situation.

For anything outside of solo BASE practice, there simply is no reason for the added dangers you are exposing the pilot of the plane and fellow jumpers to. Its fun to be a rebel..its even more fun to just be safe...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[LetsGoOutside 0]

It should be noted that you'll generally be using a larger PC on a BASE jump than a skydive. The BASE pouch is designed to hold BASE PCs, not 26" skydive PCs. If you want to train on skydives to use the BASE pouch, do what I did and shove a larger PC with a longer bridle in there. The two PC types attach and function differently, so I had a custom one built that was BASE-big with a practice golf ball handle, but it had a kill-line bridle and attached to a skydiving main.

In general, big PCs aren't a good idea with small canopies, so please keep that in mind. I felt a *lot* of drag jumping this PC, even collapsed, on a sub-100 sq ft canopy.

I didn't notice much change in the openings on my many BASE pouch skydives with a larger PC, but have heard of harder/brisker openings with this configuration. So be wary of that, too.

Oh, and to keep this relevant... The Phantom 2z has the letter "z" in its name while the original Phantom 2 does not.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

OK, with all this talk about BASE pouches, I'm curious what exactly it is. I've attached a picture of the wingsuit I just bought, and I'm looking at it just to the right of where my hackey would be and I see a "pocket". I'm not sure if this is a base pouch, or if it's just they way it's sitting and it's actually the lateral entrance.

Comments?

Also, if it is a base pouch, can it be there and simply not used? I'm guessing yes, but want to be sure.

Thanks!

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[millertime24 8]

Quote

I'm curious what exactly it is

This. And yes, I do use my BASE pouch for skydives.

Muff #5048

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

That looks just like the picture I uploaded, no?

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[millertime24 8]

Sure does... except my suit is red. I didn't know they put that pouch on the P2 (what your suit looks to be). Ive only ever seen them on vamp's.

Muff #5048

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Interesting, this suit is a P2, but belonged to a Phoenix Fly Coach, maybe it was special order?

Question remains...I'm assuming I can use my normal BOC, even if the suit has a BASE pouch?

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[millertime24 8]

Quote

Question remains...I'm assuming I can use my normal BOC, even if the suit has a BASE pouch?

Absolutely you can!. In fact, I would encourage it. The first time I used the BASE pouch on my V1 it took me 3 sec just to find the fucking hacky. Though now I use it as a matter of convenience and am VERY aware of how to deploy that method. Also, there's some stuff you (your rigger) would need to do to your bridal to make it work.

Muff #5048