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Ronaldo

Question to SFly owners/ jumpers

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Hi folks,
Does anybody have tips to pull (main handle) on an SFly (EXPERT)? Last weekend I borrowed a friend’s suit and made a couple of jumps on it. I really liked the feel of flight but had problems to reach the handle in all jumps. I thought it was because it was tight (it was M+ and I’m 6’2” which requires an L suit). I just received mine (new stock suit) and tried it on the ground yesterday but experienced the same problem. I have a reasonably small and short rig (Wings) which makes the main handle positioned a little up on the back. The rig is custom sized and fits me perfectly. The handle is in a very comfortable position and I never had problems to reach it even with my other wingsuit (a local made design similar to a Skyflyer S6). My impression wearing the SFly is that the material is so stiff that it makes it difficult to squeeze all the fabric under your arm when you reach for the handle.
Since I bought the suit with BASE jumping in mind I will definitely return it for a refund unless I can find a comfortable deployment method.
Thanks

Ronaldo
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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The material will break in and become more pliable with use. You will more than likely have to re-learn a bit of the muscle memory you have developed with your other suit, so it is a good idea to do practice touches on the ground until you start feeling more comfortable with where your hack is. Try over emphasizing the reaching around of the wing as well as the old grab your butt and slide your hands upward until your hands are on the bottom of your container, then move them outward until your hack is in hand. Hope that helps.:)
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
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Hi Ronaldo,

the suit might be a bit tight, so you really need at pull time to arch and push your hips forward, keep your head up, let your arms fall along your body and reach the handle from below (I mean from your ass) as stated by Scott, you should make it this way, otherwise it's a size issue, drop an email to ZUN at order@flyyourbody.com for a change.

enjoy
Pat
Patrick de Guillebon


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Thanks Lou,
I just tried the suit again and still have to make a lot of effort to grab the just the tip of the handle. I had surgery on my shoulder many years ago which combined with the short rig may contribute to the problem. Considering I chose this suit with BASE in mind (I wanted a no grip easy to fly wingsuit) I doesn’t make sense to have a suit I can’t deploy comfortably. I guess I’ll return it and buy another no grip suit made of common fabric such as the Acro. I gained about 22 lbs (luckily working out) since I made my old suit and that is the only reason I decided to replace it (it is way beyond tight now).
Anyway, I’ll try it again with the technique you described (I have already lost the day at the DZ) and let you know.
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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buy another no grip suit made of common fabric such as the Acro.



If you do decide to change it, look into the Shadow, it's like an Acro on Steroids :-)

http://www.phoenix-fly.com/products/wingsuits/phoenix_fly_shadow



Acro has been replaced by the shadow ( new). Acros are available used. I guess the Acro just wasn't "all that" and needed steroids.

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Ive jumped Sfly's several times, and with the L fit, never had an issue.
One jump I made in an M sized suit (slightly tight) resulted in extreme difficulty in reaching my hackey, due to a tension-line/fold the suit made between hand and body. It felt like a steel cable was keeping my hand away from the pilotchute.

A proper fitting suit is a must for easy acces at pulltime..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
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Hi Chuck,
I have always deployed in full flight. I keep my legs straight and apart and aligned with my torso. I jump a Tri 160 for my wingsuit flights and get very soft openings. Bending the knees may work well for skydiving but I believe it is not the recommended method for BASE. I guess the loops are well positioned because I have to straighten my arms and hands to the maximum to put some tension on the wings. I’ll move one grommet and check how it goes.
I tried the suit again a couple of times and was able to reach the handle with a reasonable comfort. I noticed that a small variation on the technique made a huge difference. On the practice pulls, while putting tension on the wings, if I bend the elbows before dropping the arms, my elbows get locked inside the suit which limits the movement. If I relax the arms and drop them a bit before bending, my elbow moves freely inside the suit allowing me to have a better range of movement.
I would have to jump it to make sure I can pull with 100% confidence 100% of the time.

Ronaldo
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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Hi Jarno,
That is exactly what I experienced with the M+ suit even adjusting the loops. I made a huge mistake of switching suits without taking some time to perform practice pulls on the ground. On the first jump I simply could not reach the handle and ended up tumbling like crazy to reach it. Once I grabbed it I rolled belly to earth and deployed normally. On the ground I tried again and noticed I could not reach it at all. I moved one loop more and was able to grab the tip of the handle with a little arch. The next jumps were all very uncomfortable at pull time (tumbled again and had to roll belly to earth to deploy).
My new suit is size L and is in fact quite baggy for me (see pictures) so I believe size is not the issue. I guess the combination of cables, stiff fabric and reinforcements makes the suit much less flexible. Deploying on my old suit was like deploying from a track wearing a freefly suit, IOW zero resistance.
Cheers

Ronaldo
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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On the first jump I simply could not reach the handle and ended up tumbling like crazy to reach it.



Its a side issue, but Ive seen more people do similar things reaching for handles.

  • You are reaching for a handle with your arm/hand. Bending your whole body, bending your neck, de-arching or bringing knees forward will not do anything to ease the search your right hand has for for the hackey.
    People have ended up tumbling forward, frontlooping through risers and worse things have come from that.

    Keep flying your body, use your hand to find the hackey. Usually a slow and deliberate move is much more effective than a hasty, quick and stressed grab made in panic. Which brings me to point 2.

  • Like normal skydiving.
    Find your pilotchite, if you cant find it. Open up, Breathe, and try again.

    2nd attempt. STOP searching! Dont end up going low, or tumbling into your lines in your quest to find or acces it.

    Do what you where taught on ANY skydive, use the handles on the front. Cutaway> Pull reserve.

    The rule:
    Try once...try again...pull reserve if you're out of time.
    JC
    FlyLikeBrick
    I'm an Athlete?
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    I understand your concern, the thought of silver crossed my mind immediately after I realized I was having problems to reach it. I knew where the handle was and felt the suit restricting me. I bent my knees and twisted my torso to grab it. With both arm wings closed and knees bent it was instinctively easy to arch and get stable for a belly to earth for deployment. I understand your point though, if for some reason I could not get stable an belly to earth and decided to pull anyway the consequences could have been really bad. The correct procedure would have been to cut away the arm wings, get stable and deploy but I didn’t practice it also (another link in the chain of events that almost led to a disaster)
    Thanks again
    Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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    The correct procedure would have been to cut away the arm wings,



    No..the correct procedure is, and always will be:

    Try once..
    Try again..
    Cutaway, Pull silver

    Canopy emergency> cutaway main/pull reserve (leave the cables alone).

    There is no freefall emergency where you'd use the cutaway cables.
    The wingsuit does have some added difficulties and additional procedures, but the skydiving basics related to pull and cutaway procedures are always the basis. And you dont change, add or mix additional things into that simple emergency procedure.

    Also do note, you should always go for a complete cutaway.
    The release of a reserve canopy can decrease the tension in your container, releasing the main, while you are already with a deploying/deployed reserve.

    The only situation where you'd use the cutaway of the armwing is in case of a zipper-jam, or stress/emergency situation under your reserve where the zippers may not be easily accesable (like flatspins etc).
    In freefall, releasing the armwings only adds a lot of additional potential problems, such as partial release, trailing material that could cover handles (especially reserve/cutaway) and on bigger suits, a large amount of drag that could only add to the instability, instead of fixing it.


    Keep things simple. Use your basic skydiving emergency procedures, and dont start mixing things in that have no place there.
    JC
    FlyLikeBrick
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    Thanks Jarno, I’ve always thought the cutaway option could be used for freefall instability. Anyway, just read the full manual that came with the suit (the one at the website is only about gearing up) and it has a detailed explanation about deployment which includes the statement:

    o Your arm should be back, beside your leg; you then follow your leg up to the handle.
    o If you go straight for the handle, the tension on the suit can prevent you from taking the handle.


    Which seems exactly like the problem I’m having (thanks Scott and Patrick for the tips). I’ll jump it next weekend and check how it feels
    Thank you all for the inputs, they were all extremely helpful
    Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

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    In this instance you are positively incorrect, Jarno.

    If you either cannot find (or touch) your hackey, or you cannot extract your PC then you are experiencing a TOTAL malfunction. In that instance your emergency procedure is to first locate the reserve ripcord, ARCH, then reach and pull the reserve ripcord while keeping your legwing collapsed and your armwings in.

    This is basic first jump course material which DOES NOT change if you have a wingsuit on. You do not cutaway during a total malfunction. At least not in the USA you don't.

    Chuck Blue
    D-12501
    AFFI, TMI, SLI, PRO, S&TA, BMCI, PF Examiner

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    This is basic first jump course material which DOES NOT change if you have a wingsuit on. You do not cutaway during a total malfunction. At least not in the USA you don't.



    Students here (AFF/SL) are taught to always do a full cutaway/reserve deployment.

    Later-on, more steps may come into their decission tree.

    But having one simple procedure for emergencies (that has as many pro's as cons, when looking at low experience wingsuit pilots, and the added jump difficulties/actions in case of trouble) is something I prefer over hearing people talking about 'cutting wings in freefall' and 'procedure 1 for this situation..procedure 2 for this one...etc etc).

    I know my panties tie up in a bunch when I hear all the added (often not always correct) additions to standard EPs people come up with when you ad a wingsuit to the mix.

    But regardless of whats taught on ones basic skydiving course..I think we both agree on the same thing.

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    basic first jump course material which DOES NOT change if you have a wingsuit on


    JC
    FlyLikeBrick
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    "There is no freefall emergency where you'd use the cutaway cables."


    From the Phoenix Fly Phantom 2 User Manual...

    Section 8: Emergency Procedures
    Section 8.1: Wing Cutaway system
    The Phoenix Fly wing cutaway system was designed for use as a backup device. Three
    reasons you may want to cut your wings away could be:
    • You are unstable or not comfortable with your flight. (You can cut the wings away in freefall
    and bring your arms up into a box position
    )

    And here...

    Section 8.2: Uncontrollable Spins in Flight
    With a highly manoeuvrable suit like the PHANTOM 2 it is possible to end up in a flat spin. A
    failed manoeuvre, collision or bad exit can in rare cases cause this to occur.
    The corrective action is simple:
    • Pull your knees up to your chest and collapse your arm wings
    • Once you see the ground, open your arm wings to regain stability
    • Once you are belly to earth and stable, re-open the leg wing
    • Once you're flying, re-orient yourself to the DZ and continue the skydive
    If the unlikely situation that this process does not work, try cutting away your arm wings and
    assuming the “box position” to regain control
    .
    Blue skies,
    Keith Medlock

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    The manuals being outdated, we are replacing these soon with more general user manuals aimed at the full line of suits (past and present).

    Teaching improves...as does knowledge..no use making old mistakes over and over again..
    JC
    FlyLikeBrick
    I'm an Athlete?

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