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KrisFlyZ

New V-Prototype?

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The inlets are original Tony non fancy functional pockets that work, Period. PF has gone Tony on this.



I'm sure the old Tony range up to and inc. the XS all had top of the shoulder/arm inlets (which themselves seemed to be started with PF, copied and made bigger by Tony and then recopied by PF). Then V3 comes with front of wing stiffened scoop, and -Bird range follows with near identical front of wing stiffened scoop. 'Tis the way I remember it, anyway.

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The Tony leading edge inserts are just, again, a simple functional non overly elegant or complex way to shape the leading edges compared to profile hot wireing foam in a special fixture.



Ay, but if you're going to be that picky I'm sure there are many technical size/shape/construction aspects that make the VX trailing edge root totally different from the X-bird trailing edge root:P
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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All this discussion about who came up with what first really does not matter. The end result is that we have better suits today than a few years ago.

It does make the discussion, interesting.

When the V1 was released, the blueprint for all suits designed for glide was available. It is just that it took so long for manufacturers to give up the instinct to make their suits look different and concentrate on the desired functionality of the suit.

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I does not matter what the various prototypes have. Only the production version. The one you get with your order.



I don't live in sunny California and I have a lot of 'free' time :$.

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The inlets are original Tony non fancy functional pockets that work, Period. PF has gone Tony on this.



Maybe in that exact form and placement. If you must credit Tony, do so for making all suits in the market today have mattress inflation. That's definitely a good thing, IMO.

Are inlets rocket science?

Even on the phantom 1 leg inlets, the simple functional pockets you talk of can be seen. They are just at a different place and smaller because they are from a time when mattress inflation was not considered necessary. It was considered detrimental to the design goal of shaping the wing exactly, like your V2.

I do not have access to this picture but I remember seeing a picture of a simple pocket inlet on the leg sleeve of a ghost(probably cpoxon's one) from years ago.

Edited to add: The above paragraph does not matter, the SM1 was released before the Ghost.

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I know one of you Mutards will chime in with how you are getting into leading edge compressibility or achieving laminar flow ...



What laminar!? Sorry to disappoint you :D.

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In either design I doubt there is much of a benefit to us. Don't tell me it is airfoil shaping. We are draping triangles off our limbs. The chords are getting bigger is all. At the speeds we fly a constant round radius profile is just fine. Its feel good engineering basically. Like putting carbon fibre everywhere.



I think that there is a benefit in putting the time and effort in the manufacturing process that results in careful airfoil shaping. With the next V size closer to the X-bird, time and real world performance will tell if it is just feel good engineering.

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Are inlets rocket science?

Even on the phantom 1 leg inlets, the simple functional pockets you talk of can be seen.



No inlets should have been the simple pocket scoops a long time ago. They have been overly complex for no reason. Their shape, sizing and placement have been an oddessy in bad design. You only need the pocket if you want airlocks otherwise simpler vents work.

The simple fact the latest offerings from PF and Tony inlets are very similar in size and placement is no accident. It works. As far as the Acro/Phantom series 1 vents go they were a problem with a lot of ill fittings causing bad or no inflation, ergo we end up with a very quick revision to version 2. Fit wasn't as criticle as a result.

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You only need the pocket if you want airlocks otherwise simpler vents work.



Pocket and Scoop being the same thing, right? Doesn't the simple scoop design work the best regardless of air locking? IMO, Air locking of the front inlets is only needed if the suit is used for back flying also.

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As far as the Acro/Phantom series 1 vents go they were a problem with a lot of ill fittings causing bad or no inflation, ergo we end up with a very quick revision to version 2. Fit wasn't as criticle as a result.



Only if they had the back flying inlets option. I am not sure fit mattered so much on the smaller Phantom and Acro suits.

I own a Phantom 1(Blue/white/Black) with back flying inlets that I purchased from the used market. It fit better than my Orange one(no back fly inlets) with which I have had so much fun and got really good performance out of. The design of the back fly inlets (with no air locks) makes the suit's performance envelope lower. After 3 jumps, I simply sealed the back inlet on the arm wings with Duck tape(inside and outside). Immediately I was getting the same performance out of it as my Orange Phantom.

Anyway, I am glad we are at a point in time when we discuss these issues for fun and they no longer cause issues on suits.

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ALL of the acros had back vents.

The issue was the silly leg vent that inflated the leg wing via the thigh area. If the leg was too tight it choked off the inlet completely. My leg wing never -ever inflated. I should of had a new suit made but by that time version 2 came out with proper vents. That is what I wanted, I was told no.
I was told PF had a big problem in this regard if the measurements were off. Hence the very quick version 2 upgrade.

I spent a few experimental hours trying to build my own upgrade style vents with no luck. Buying that suit was a waste of time and money.

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ALL of the acros had back vents.....

The issue was the silly leg vent that inflated the leg wing via the thigh area. If the leg was too tight it choked off the inlet completely. My leg wing never -ever inflated. I should of had a new suit made but by that time version 2 came out with proper vents. That is what I wanted, I was told no.

I was told PF had a big problem in this regard if the measurements were off. Hence the very quick version 2 upgrade.



Acro Suit was officially released on : 8-Aug-2005

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1737770


Acro2 announced : 6 Mar 2008

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3175309

Two years and a half years is hardly a very quick version upgrade.

The clock didn't start when you received your Acro.

BTW, When did you order/receive your Acro? When did you ask for the upgrade?

I have it on good authority that this 'never -ever' problem you speak of in this thread never -ever made it to PF HQ.

As I remember, you tested an Acro before ordering it and even posted a nice review. My point is that you were in a position to realize that there is a defect on your suit very soon after you jumped it. You say in your post that you asked after the Acro2 was released. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to refuse a new suit/free upgrade several months after you received your suit.

I heard directly from you regarding your issue in late 2008 and you said, "I asked Robi to upgrade my Acro to an Acro2 and he asked me to just buy an Acro2...I am done buying suits from him..."

It seems, you didn't even communicate your issue properly and now you are behaving in an unreasonable manner.

I was emailing a friend of mine(dmkellett...I can ask him to come here and chime in) to catch up, its been a while and he was talking about his Phantom2. He had sizing issues that he got sorted... Here is the relevant part of the email...

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I ordered a Phantom 2 as a stop gap, it didnt fit.... not even close.... the arms were 10 cm at least too long, I jumped it and couldnt stretch the arm wing, the body was waaaaaaay to long, and the suit didnt fly at ALL.

That being said, Robi sorted me out big style. I got a new Phantom 2 my exact size and V3 my exact size pretty quick after that for a big discount. I wanted to send the original one back but he made me a new one for less than the alterations and shipping would have cost.... so I cant really bitch.



I have to say that Robi has been more than fair with me.

I ordered a V1 in 2004 and made a measuring mistake. Shoulder to floor of 63 instead of 61. I made the same mistake on the V2 order(2006) as well and Robi made me another suit for free in spite of realizing that it was my mistake.

I purchased another V2 in 2007 and that had a defect. Following that, me and Robi had our differences and I was on the black list. No V3 for me. Quite recently, Robi and I resolved our differences and he offered a big discount on my next order, but I refused the discount, I figure we are even.

I think of it this way. Not having me as a customer has ZERO impact on PF's business. If Robi is willing to be fair and resolve the differences with me, then, there is no reasonable logic I can apply and make him the bad guy. Damn it!>:(

If you can't work out your issues with a reasonable person like Robi, I am not sure who you can work with.


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Yep, I agree.

My first Phantom2 order was a disaster. But the mistake was MINE. Me and the girlfriend took my measurements and they were wrong. So the suit was wrong.

The replacement Phantom2 and my V3 are a perfect fit. I couldn't be happier. Customer service is very important to me, in my business we try to go out of our way to make our patients / customers happy and they return with their family members so even when we take a hit on one thing, we try to not be too short sighted and refuse customer service just because it was the customer who ordered the wrong glasses or made another annoying stupid mistake. We suck it up and smile, knowing we will get more business in the end.

I have ordered several PF suits over the years and have always had outstanding service and any probs have been sorted beyond my expectations.

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I have it on good authority that this 'never -ever' problem you speak of in this thread never -ever made it to PF HQ.




WOW vu-jade Robi and I were just sharing some PMs regard exactly this. Since you care.


1 Ordered Acro 1 approx late 06. You are right/ I was wrong it had been a while since the release in 05.

2 received it April 07,

3 started exchanging a friendly Pm dialog with Robi about the leg wing inflation May 07. The Pms continued on and off about me opening up stiching carefully and try that. You are right I should have just sent it back instead of sporadic months worth of pms. I admit this to everyone when discussing the sequence of events in person.

4 Nobody said anything about a free upgrade. In fact a several of my friends have had their version 1 acros upgraded to version 2 style vents at a very reasonable cost. I would have then more than happily paid that cost.

5 And as I discussed it with Robi I'm done buying wingsuits... period. I'll let my sponsor buy them for me.:D

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Since you care.



Only because you make every thread about your 'issue' :S.


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I'll let my sponsor buy them for me. :D



Sponsor would be the Mrs., Scott. :D

In this thread, I want to share my excitement about the new V-suit with other like minded individuals.

Edited: To fix something that was not put in the most effective way.


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Only because you make every thread about your 'issue' :S.

I have no interest to deal with a no-tits, not an ass I want to fuck person >:( :D:D.



Actually Jakee brought up inlets then you chimed in. I was talking production versus prototype. Short termer it digressed from there.

That second sentence, is that Pujabi speak for something?

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That second sentence, is that Pujabi speak for something?



C'mon Glenn...It's Twi. You don't recognize the syntax? :S
I've got a proto vx that'll be at S'nore if you wanna bitch about inlet placement, but the suit mentioned in in the OP is quite different (inlets and wingshape, and safety features). I'm sure someone will leak some photographs soon. :)
See you at Chick's Rock?

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That second sentence, is that Pujabi speak for something?



Punjabi, waaay off mate:P.

It was admittedly a very inefficient way of putting it(so, I fixed it) but I was trying to say.

Wanting to sleep with someone(Tits and Ass) is a quality redeeming enough to want to deal with them for a while. I don't want to sleep with you, so there isn't a reason in the whole wide world that would make me engage in a conversation with you as long as you continue with this negative and annoying attitude.

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Actually Jakee brought up inlets then you chimed in. I was talking production versus prototype. Short termer it digressed from there.



I would not even have responded to your post were it not for every thread in the forum turning into I was screwed over by a company in a small market and they will die a death because of it :S.

After two attempts from you to steer the conversation into a petty, who copied from who discussion. My post on inlets also pointed out that we are happily at a place in history where such issues are a thing of the past.

Some people live their whole lives without solving simple problems because they are hooked on the misery! We can only steer clear of those characters .


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Actually Jakee brought up inlets then you chimed in. I was talking production versus prototype. Short termer it digressed from there.



I would not even have responded to your post were it not for every thread in the forum turning into I was screwed over by a company in a small market and they will die a death because of it :S.

After two attempts from you to steer the conversation into a petty, who copied from who discussion. My post on inlets also pointed out that we are happily at a place in history where such issues are a thing of the past.




You said the discussion was interesting and then you took it in the direction of the series 1 vents. Small markets and corporate death are different thread, Sally. Which has more to do with product quality and factory rework and nothing to do with the V-5 specifications which is this thread ( focus). For the record I don't want PF to die, as you claim, because the design competition gives us all good product. Let me remind you I'm not on any PF black list, like you were, I'm also not in the market.


Some people live their whole lives without solving simple problems because they are hooked on the misery! We can only steer clear of those characters .



Are you mad because I called you a mutard or a Punjabi?

BTW I fixed my problem.

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I've already told Robi I want one. There is a dude that is asking about one in camo too.
The few pix I've seen...very nice new features and some that are obviously improvements built on what others have done.
If the performance envelope is anything like the changes from the P1 to the P2...it'll be a very high bar in the suit evolution

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Robert, Boris and JNO wanted to show the video at the World Base Race this coming weekend, and thus decided we should post it online before they left their home (tomorrow morning).

So a bit premature...but based on the 10.000 views in the last 6 hours..nobody is complaining.
DSE I will shoot you a full-res version tomorrow for local presentations at the next PF event you are organizingB|
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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