Large Wingsuits + Lower WS experience can = Very Nasty Flat Spin video

[The111 0]

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As a matter of fact, yes, you are missing something. I know Sangi personally and he's actually a really nice guy. The reason that he post the posts that he posts (quite negatively loaded usually) is because when he was new to this site, and asked questions, he always got smartass remarks from the ''oh-so-experienced" skygods who dissed him alot.

Wrong, I just searched for Sangi's first posts in the WS forum and he got polite responses to the first dozen or so easy answer questions he asked.

The first one where he was unhappy with the responses was when he asked:

"What will happen if you put a 100 jump wonder in a V3?"

Which honestly is about like entering a handgun forum and asking:

"What will happen if you give a 5-year old a loaded gun and send him to school?"

I mean, WHO KNOWS? Nobody can predict the future. Maybe nothing will happen in either case, but the person asking either question obviously knows that it is a bad idea and against published recommendations. Both questions are silly, and both questions are disturbing because they make you worry about the thought process of somebody who would ask them. So when people POLITELY responded to Sangi asking how many jumps he had, and where he jumped so some locals could answer his questions in person, he got offended. If you get offended because people are honestly concerned for you, and honestly trying to help... that is your issue. Silly skygods... trying to offer good advice.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[elias123 0]

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The fact that he reacts in a negative way to being told he was flat out wrong is his issue. Not this website.

Absolutely true. But the website IMO does have something to do with it, be it indirectly.

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My responses are direct, but not rude. Some members here don't sugar coat their opinions.

Some remarks that people make (and I'm not specifically talking about anyone) are quite rude. I hear people saying how they'd love to get more people in the sport, but how is that gonna work if some of the experienced jumpers on DZ.com keep 'dissing' them, being basically rude etc. It demotivates people to continue jumping IMO. And that I find really sad.

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Giving ill informed opinions that can hurt someone is not taken lightly.

Agreed.

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"But saying it is the fault of the "skygods" that he was pushed to make the posts that he does seams a bit offbase."

Well, I'm not saying that it's the skygods who are to blame for this, definitely not. You're right, it does seem a bit offbase to say that. It's just that people who have more experience, and act like they know everything (a.k.a. some skygods, not all of them, actually I shouldn't have said the word skygod, that was wrong on my part, it's just some people who think or know that they're the shit who give him shit I think) who acted condesending towards him.

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He does it because he likes the responses.

That I would not know. I can't read Sangi's mind

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[elias123 0]

Woot!

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[scottygofast 0]

it was in the video... ;) and good point! how did this get so sidetracked? Performance is completely subjective, and any conversations directed at comparing performance levels between differing forms of wingsuiting, is just silly. you want to compare performance? go jump with a friend... it truly isnt a dick measuring contest guys... and girls... and, well, others..

I will ask someone who has more time than I do to accomplish this though.. if you really want to talk performance, you actually have to solve the wing loading question in wingsuits. total area of the wingsuit, i would say the best unit of measure would be likely square feet, then take the weight with gear of the person flying the wingsuit... the higher the loading, the faster the suit will fly, when used correctly. Trust me when i say that wing loading has alot to do with total performance capabilities, in any realm of flight. In order to begin to quantify performance data, we need to understand what the information means to individuals. So whoever wants to do this, should do it for a number of wingsuiters at their DZ. we can then begin to figure out what any of this performance data really means... just my 2c..


bring that new suit to zhills butters and well find some puffies... ;)

Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

[elias123 0]

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Wrong, I just searched for Sangi's first posts in the WS forum and he got polite responses to the first dozen or so easy answer questions he asked.

The first one where he was unhappy with the responses was when he asked:

"What will happen if you put a 100 jump wonder in a V3?"

Which honestly is about like entering a handgun forum and asking:

"What will happen if you give a 5-year old a loaded gun and send him to school?"

I didn't made a search. I mainly just heard what Sangi himself told me. And I fully agree with you on the V3/loaded handgun comparision.

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So when people POLITELY responded to Sangi asking how many jumps he had, and where he jumped so some locals could answer his questions in person, he got offended. If you get offended because people are honestly concerned for you, and honestly trying to help... that is your issue.

Again, I share my opinion with you on this one. I don't see why someone would get offended by that.

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Silly skygods... trying to offer good advice.

Just to be clear, a skygod for me is someone who has just made like his 500th or something, can go HD and starts saying to instuctors at the DZ with 1000's of jumps that their method of teaching is wrong and that they should listen to them. The skygods you are refering to are, in my opinion, not skygods, but guru's :) Those are IMO the people who don't have the ego's and have all the knowledge and will always be opeen to help other people become safer in the sport.

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[elias123 0]

My apolliloggies to you Scotty, I didn't mean for this thread to get so off course

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[Butters 0]

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if you really want to talk performance, you actually have to solve the wing loading question in wingsuits. total area of the wingsuit, i would say the best unit of measure would be likely square feet, then take the weight with gear of the person flying the wingsuit... the higher the loading, the faster the suit will fly, when used correctly. Trust me when i say that wing loading has alot to do with total performance capabilities, in any realm of flight.

This is the reason I'm thinking about wearing weight with my Stealth 2.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SuperGirl 0]

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That was at a time when Sangi knew next to nothing about BASE and just started to get interested in it.

you say that like he's some big expert now. just because he's got more posts doesn't mean he's got any more experience. yes, people are gonna diss someone who doesn't jump but acts like he knows it all.

eli, how come you didn't get spanked with the same rude replies when you were new here and asking silly questions? why didn't I get the same treatment when I firs t got to this forum? a lot of people are greeted with respect and get nice comments, and so did sangi. like Matt, I too was intrigued by your post and did a search. plenty of people were super nice and spent so much time writing long informative replies to sangi's first posts here. go see for yourself. but when someone starts acting like a troll, he'll get the replies he's seeking... and let's face it, sangi trives on stirring shit and pissing people off. don't go ruin all that for him now :)

[SuperGirl 0]

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This is the reason I'm thinking about wearing weight with my Stealth 2.

it would be interesting to see a more thorough study of how adding weight affects the flights. gps tracks, adding more weight, doing 5 jumps, adding more weight, then another 5, and so on... get averages over each of those groups of 5, and compare the different results...

[lurch 0]

None of the above! Fuck performance! Theres a puffy guys, LETS GO GET IT!!!!
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[scottygofast 0]

ummm... add weight? Im fat enough as it is... ;)

Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

[SuperGirl 0]

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ummm... add weight? Im fat enough as it is... ;)

not you, LOL... my reply was to Butters!!!

[Skwrl 56]

Scotty, I'm pretty sure you can't add weight without collapsing into a black hole.

(I keeeeeeeeeeeeed....)

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I am just glad that my fighter pilot flying motherfucker buddy, Matt Miller, didn't die on that jump. His exposure to "unusual attitudes" in his flight training probably helped in this instance.

[kallend 1,623]

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it was in the video... ;) and good point! how did this get so sidetracked? Performance is completely subjective, and any conversations directed at comparing performance levels between differing forms of wingsuiting, is just silly. you want to compare performance? go jump with a friend... it truly isnt a dick measuring contest guys... and girls... and, well, others..

Which aircraft has the best performance:

X-15
Schleicher ASW-28
FA-18
C-17
SR-71
Boeing747-400

Answer - ALL OF THEM when judged according to the purpose for which they were designed.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[VectorBoy 0]

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I am just glad that my fighter pilot flying motherfucker buddy, Matt Miller, didn't die on that jump. His exposure to "unusual attitudes" in his flight training probably helped in this instance.

Maybe he meant to do it. Maybe he was doing the Handley.[/sly]

[scottygofast 0]

[LouDiamond 1]

Everyone: Stay on topic and check yourself if you feel the urge to tell someone something that meets the criteria for a PA.

Sangi: Put yourself in check, you're on thin ice not only in this forum but on the whole site. Chose your words wisely from now on.

I'm tired of the BS people, grow up and post the way you would want people to respond to your posts. I have the ban hammer out and several of you are looking like nails.


Note: If the shoe fits, wear it. Everyone else please continue with the topic of discussion. That is all.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Sylvain 0]

Back to topic ... a nice spin (spitfire vs V1 remake ) at 3:43 here :

http://vimeo.com/12730241

-- Sylvain

[MarkM 0]

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My intention with this post is to merely allow us all to see just how much RESPECT we all must have for these suits.

I've been a little shocked at how fast wingsuit designs have progressed. At 10 WS jumps back in the day a S3 was the most advanced thing around and it was a scary suit. At 500 WS jumps today the x-birds totally leave those in the dust.

And on top of that certain aspect of wingsuit safety(being able to cut away the wings in freefall) have gone away because it's just not safe on the larger suits and pilot skill has made it unnecessary. Then you have things like air locks, which on some suits can be very hard to shut down even when you deploy.

I'm very surprised we haven't had more incidents. I don't know if that's luck or because our community is very social and the experienced birds are watching out for the younger ones.

[SuperGirl 0]

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I'm very surprised we haven't had more incidents. I don't know if that's luck or because our community is very social and the experienced birds are watching out for the younger ones.

or maybe it's just a matter of time...
hopefully i'm wrong.

[mccordia 73]

I also believe a lot of scary incidents never make it online for various reasons such pride, shame or marketimg reasons. Next to a LARGE group of wingsuit flyers who only peek in here once a year, less or have never even heard of this interwebs thing...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[base851 0]

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I'm very surprised we haven't had more incidents. I don't know if that's luck or because our community is very social and the experienced birds are watching out for the younger ones.

or maybe it's just a matter of time...
hopefully i'm wrong.

I have my own, and somewhat complex, theory on this, but the short answer is all of the above. I'd also point out that while the number of skydiving fatalities is fairly low, it's no coincidence that the BASE fatality list is littered with wingsuiters who have pushed the envelope too far.

[ecnuob 0]

Almost to the point that the BFL should be split up into two lists, just to keep it in perspective. Just as the sport was getting safer, we've gone and changed the rules. Unfortunately it may only be the beginning.

[jakee 1,254]

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Just as the sport was getting safer, we've gone and changed the rules.

Rules? It is what it is. No-one can make you jump a suit or exit point you're not comfortable with.

And safer? I'm not sure what fundamental changes making 'normal' BASE that much safer than it was 10 years ago...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?