Future of wingsuit able to fly up?

[gisellemartins 0]

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I agree with u, same way we couldnt hold our arms under a hang glider or a paraglider but the harness was invented and now we just lie down confortable under our wings.

Dont u think the designers could creat something in way wingsuit pilots could hold their arms open with long span wingsuits without too much efforts?

Yes, and then it would not be called a wingsuit. It would be called a wing apparatus, or whatever you want to name it. A suit is something you wear... to the scale of your body.

Will copy and paste from the message above...


No its not a Hang glider as the proper name says in a hang glider u hang under a wing, in this case will be a proper wingsuit because u not hanging under a wing, the wing come from your arms with carbon extention just like vampire3 same wing tip its used on wing tips but longer.

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

[base851 0]

You are aware that, between 1930 & 1960, of the 75 people that tried various wing extensions such as you describe, 72 of them died trying?

Knowing that track record, are YOU willing to try it as #76?

[DSE 3]

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You are aware that, between 1930 & 1960, of the 75 people that tried various wing extensions such as you describe, 72 of them died trying?

Knowing that track record, are YOU willing to try it as #76?

They didn't have Pawlowski Hair back then. Carbon-fuckin-Fiber makes all the difference.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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You are aware that, between 1930 & 1960, of the 75 people that tried various wing extensions such as you describe, 72 of them died trying?

Knowing that track record, are YOU willing to try it as #76?

Well by this thinking we wouldn't ever flown.
You know heavier that air things can not fly and iron ships can not float.

[base851 0]

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Well by this thinking we wouldn't ever flown.
You know heavier that air things can not fly and iron ships can not float.

Actually, that wasn't my thinking.

Repeated failure doesn't imply "quit". Repeated failure DOES imply "OK maybe this particular approach isn't working". We started seeing more success when we stopped trying the bird model and applied more of the flying squirrel model to the problem.

I'm just saying, the bird model HAS been thought of and tried... and for the plethora of reasons stated doesn't work. The problem isn't so simple as giselle implies it to be. If it were, it would have been done by now.

[mccordia 73]

Is this is paraglider or a big wingsuit?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

From what I can tell from the picture it's a hang glider ... he's hanging from the wing.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[base851 0]

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From what I can tell from the picture it's a hang glider ... he's hanging from the wing.

/agree

That's a hang glider.

[mccordia 73]

So a closed sleeve wuld turn this into
a wingsuit?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[base851 0]

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So a closed sleeve wuld turn this into a wingsuit?

No. Not in my mind at least. But maybe we're thinking along similar angles & I'm just not communicating very clearly. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that.

That, or this is slowly devolving into another "what is a wingsuit" argument. In which case... time for me to beat a hasty exit!

[Butters 0]

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So a closed sleeve wuld turn this into
a wingsuit?

No, he would still be hanging from the wing.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[notsane 0]

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They didn't have Pawlowski Hair back then. Carbon-fuckin-Fiber makes all the difference.

I was unaware, until now, that Ed used carbon fiber in his hair. It does make sense, of course.

[base689 0]

OK, Giselle.
Let's make clear one point: you have NEVER flown a wingsuit.
So you cannot imagine how tiring it is to "keep" the wingsuit in shape and in the right position to get to best flight/best efficiency.
The bigger the wingsuit = the higher the human effort to just simply "keep it"
At the end of the day, after 3 wingsuit skydives with my Phonenix V2, I am really tired (OK, I am old but anyway...), being V2 quite a "big" wingsuit that requires quite an effort to keep it there (yes, if you "fly" the wingsuit with an arch, you don't get tired but you don't so much forward too, so, if you want to fly, you MUST keep your muscles tight to keep the position).
If you manufacture a hypotethical wingsuit just slightly bigger/wider that the biggest wingsuit of these days, no man can keep it.
Man hasn't got the physical strenght to fly a BIG wingsuit.
Full stop
And if you start adding frames to your "wingsuit"; I am afraid that's not anymore a wingsuit, rather a hangglider, perhaps small, perhaps fast, but still a hangglider it is
What Yves has done is really FANTASTIC but I am afraid to confess you that tht's NOT a wingsuit but something that has invented few years ago: a jet powered aircraft
Is it small? Yes, but it still is a (very) rigid frame with proper rigid wings.
Can it go up? Yes indeed, it's got 4 jet engines.
does ti required some physical strength? Very little indeed: it has to be designed in a way that the center of gravity (of the overall system, man included) is on the vertical of centre of pressure (of the overall system) which is generated by the lift, so any small movement of the body (hanged/attached to the small aircraft) can cause the small jet powered aircraft to pitch down, to pitch up, to turn right, to turn left.
Human body has "only" the physical strength to the most perofmrnat wingsuit on the market today: forget to manufacture ANYTHING that the man underneath moves his arms and automatically move the wings and he can fly UP.
This is NOT going to happen for the next 1000 years.
Then, if you think to manufacture (and use) something what Yves did, fine, I would like to fly myself too, but that would NOT be a wingsuit rather a small jet powered aircraft
Visa, a fininsh bloke, couple of years ago, managed to get 2 jet engines attached to his boots and during a wingsuit skydive (but launched by a balloon) he succeeded to fly HORIZONTAL for a while: from here I can easily see that with a bit more power by the jets, you can go (slightly) up, but then the problem becomes the endurance of such a flight, because the jets consumes a LOT of fuel and it is NOT easy toget all that fuel ON YOU
Yes, Visa can go up (probably he already did it) but with JETS, and NOT waving his arms inserted into the arm-wings of his wingsuit.
From now on: I will keep on flying my wingsuit at the best I can, I will try to improve as much as I can, and if one day someone will come up with "something" that can fly up, sure I will do it
Just my 0.02 €
P.S.: I forgot to mentuion to Giselle that, among all these nice things of fluying up and making wingsuits bigger and bigger, stil there is left the small detail that at the end of the story (or the end of the flight, which is more appropriate) we must open up our parachutes: the bigger the wingsuit, the more diffuclt is to grab the handle and open: on my about 10th flgiht with my V2, it itook me 800 m to get my parachute open: yes, I was the ass, yes, it was jolly cold and I wore gloves, yes, I got some armwing cloth between my hand and my handle, yes, I revised the whole procedure of (grabbing and) pulling the handle.
Stil remains the that the bigger the wingsuit is, the more difficult is to save your life trying to reach the handle, grab it it and throw it

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[shropshire 0]

Not a PG ... it's got rigid battens

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[gisellemartins 0]

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OK, Giselle.
Let's make clear one point: you have NEVER flown a wingsuit.
So you cannot imagine how tiring it is to "keep" the wingsuit in shape and in the right position to get to best flight/best efficiency.
The bigger the wingsuit = the higher the human effort to just simply "keep it"
At the end of the day, after 3 wingsuit skydives with my Phonenix V2, I am really tired (OK, I am old but anyway...), being V2 quite a "big" wingsuit that requires quite an effort to keep it there (yes, if you "fly" the wingsuit with an arch, you don't get tired but you don't so much forward too, so, if you want to fly, you MUST keep your muscles tight to keep the position).
If you manufacture a hypotethical wingsuit just slightly bigger/wider that the biggest wingsuit of these days, no man can keep it.
Man hasn't got the physical strenght to fly a BIG wingsuit.
Full stop
And if you start adding frames to your "wingsuit"; I am afraid that's not anymore a wingsuit, rather a hangglider, perhaps small, perhaps fast, but still a hangglider it is
What Yves has done is really FANTASTIC but I am afraid to confess you that tht's NOT a wingsuit but something that has invented few years ago: a jet powered aircraft
Is it small? Yes, but it still is a (very) rigid frame with proper rigid wings.
Can it go up? Yes indeed, it's got 4 jet engines.
does ti required some physical strength? Very little indeed: it has to be designed in a way that the center of gravity (of the overall system, man included) is on the vertical of centre of pressure (of the overall system) which is generated by the lift, so any small movement of the body (hanged/attached to the small aircraft) can cause the small jet powered aircraft to pitch down, to pitch up, to turn right, to turn left.
Human body has "only" the physical strength to the most perofmrnat wingsuit on the market today: forget to manufacture ANYTHING that the man underneath moves his arms and automatically move the wings and he can fly UP.
This is NOT going to happen for the next 1000 years.
Then, if you think to manufacture (and use) something what Yves did, fine, I would like to fly myself too, but that would NOT be a wingsuit rather a small jet powered aircraft
Visa, a fininsh bloke, couple of years ago, managed to get 2 jet engines attached to his boots and during a wingsuit skydive (but launched by a balloon) he succeeded to fly HORIZONTAL for a while: from here I can easily see that with a bit more power by the jets, you can go (slightly) up, but then the problem becomes the endurance of such a flight, because the jets consumes a LOT of fuel and it is NOT easy toget all that fuel ON YOU
Yes, Visa can go up (probably he already did it) but with JETS, and NOT waving his arms inserted into the arm-wings of his wingsuit.
From now on: I will keep on flying my wingsuit at the best I can, I will try to improve as much as I can, and if one day someone will come up with "something" that can fly up, sure I will do it
Just my 0.02 €
P.S.: I forgot to mentuion to Giselle that, among all these nice things of fluying up and making wingsuits bigger and bigger, stil there is left the small detail that at the end of the story (or the end of the flight, which is more appropriate) we must open up our parachutes: the bigger the wingsuit, the more diffuclt is to grab the handle and open: on my about 10th flgiht with my V2, it itook me 800 m to get my parachute open: yes, I was the ass, yes, it was jolly cold and I wore gloves, yes, I got some armwing cloth between my hand and my handle, yes, I revised the whole procedure of (grabbing and) pulling the handle.
Stil remains the that the bigger the wingsuit is, the more difficult is to save your life trying to reach the handle, grab it it and throw it

Like the most Italians i know u speak too much, with nosense...

We are not speaking about jet powered airfoils here.

Did u read all the messages or u just come straight to end and coment?

once again... the way the carbon fiber can be placed in the back the pilot wont need to make effort to keep his wings open.

Are u Nustradamus or do u have a cristal ball to say that the wingsuit wont be able to fly up in a thousand of years?

u makes me remember the people tho said to Santos dumond than nothing heavy than the air could fly up and laughed on him and soon he flow for the first time in the humanity history with his 14bis around eifell tower for 15 minutes!

Do u know how many people before him died trying to realize the same thing?


Also Accord to the scientists great minds like Stephen Hawking people gonna be living in mars in 500 years time.

Now u ask me, am i gonna believe in you and all the old fashioned minds who doubt about what few humans are able to do or believe on the great minds who creat most things in this world that u use to make your life more confortable and easy? no need to answer in it

Im trying to upload a picture of a wingsuit prototype i have in mind but im have some issues...

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

[gisellemartins 0]

I manage to post the picture.
Its attached here.

This is just a in image of what i have in mind of what would be a wingsuit in the future etc...

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

[SethInMI 145]

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So a closed sleeve wuld turn this into
a wingsuit?

To really push the definition/limits in this "more arm wing"' direction I can think of two ways:

1. Powered/reconfigurable exoskeleton. Jointed robotic arms allow human arms to move freely, but when stopped lock in place to relieve arm muscle fatigue. The pilot is still suspended from the exoskeleton, but he can move it however he wishes. Is that the ultimate wingsuit?

2. Flexible frame. A flexible frame, likely pre-stressed or curved "down" so that when in the air the weight of the pilot flexes it "up" to level. The pilots arms can still bend the frame, but in level flight it takes much of the weight off the arms. The pilot is only partly suspended from the frame.

Some one else mentioned the exoskeleton; it makes me think of MechWarrior or some other Japanese anime. They do love their robots in Japan.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[base851 0]

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I manage to post the picture.
Its attached here.

This is just a in image of what i have in mind of what would be a wingsuit in the future etc...

The wrist strength required for me to hold the outer part would require.... a LOT of dead kittens....

[Sangi 0]

Imho the future of true flight is in complex technology, not some nylon.. What we're doing now here is honestly just horsing around with wingsuits and parachutes..

Jets, anti gravity devices, that's how it's prolly gonna be..

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean

[gisellemartins 0]

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To really push the definition/limits in this "more arm wing"' direction I can think of two ways:

1. Powered/reconfigurable exoskeleton. Jointed robotic arms allow human arms to move freely, but when stopped lock in place to relieve arm muscle fatigue. The pilot is still suspended from the exoskeleton, but he can move it however he wishes. Is that the ultimate wingsuit?

Hi Sethinmi, exoeskeleton could help in the flexibility of the wing but it would add a vast amout of weight on the wingsuit and also too many complications, also would be too expensive.
The Flexibility we need can be achieved with a joint on the fibers in the pilots back, allowing you to close your wings and open, allowing you to dive and glide anytime u want.

When i say joint many pilots gonna think oh ok but with the joint we wont be able to hold such a big wing with our muscle, the solution could be that the joint is flexible only in a horizontal way when the "pilot in flight position" not on vertical way! its allows u to to turn easily, dive but the pilot wont make efforts to keep the wing opened at all.

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

[gisellemartins 0]

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Imho the future of true flight is in complex technology, not some nylon.. What we're doing now here is honestly just horsing around with wingsuits and parachutes..

Jets, anti gravity devices, that's how it's prolly gonna be..

Hi Sangi when u say something to fly need to be complex and not nylon, depends for what kind of fly u want if u want powered supersonic aircraft to fly probably u are right nylon wont be good, but if u want only a wing to fly and glide i think nylon have been doing an amazing job so far, ballons are made of nylon, flexible hangliders and paragliders are made of nylon and all of them are succesfull non powered machines able to take and fly up for hours and hours.

Of course there are rigid hanggliders like the ATOS from the germany company A.I.R and they fly much better than flexible hanggliders made of thick nylon. but it doesnt mean that nylon is uselles, in my opnion for the kind of fly i want for myself , take off from a montain or a plane and be able to glide and fly up for many hours wihout using any powered engine and maybe landing for me Nylon is the best material ever for it, strong, flexible and light!

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

[shropshire 0]

Sangi ... classic.. you don't know what you don't know..

I've been flying paragliders (bit's of Nylon and string) for 20 years now and if my 7 hour (SEVEN) flight is mere horse play ... then bring it on Dobbin.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[DSE 3]

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[Are u Nustradamus or do u have a cristal ball to say that the wingsuit wont be able to fly up in a thousand of years?

Also Accord to the scientists great minds like Stephen Hawking people gonna be living in mars in 500 years time.

when I was in elementary school, we were told that we'd be living on the moon in my lifetime. We were told that no one would ever want a "computer at home" because they ate too much power and were too big. We were told that living on the bottom of the sea would be common-place. They even once sold space shuttle tickets, because the space shuttle was going to be "common travel" in 20 years. 40 years later, the shuttle program is being scrapped.
Sure...in "thousands of years" we might have something along the lines of what you're talking about, but in a thousand years, human bodies won't be very much like they are today either.
Get your butt into a wingsuit and learn to fly in the "now" and not the "tomorrow." I promise you'll understand the dreams of tomorrow once you've experienced the reality of today.

[lurch 0]

Giselle:
You have made a series of mistakes here.
1: Real wingsuit pilots are answering your questions and you tell them they speak nonsense. This is not polite.

2: You are not a wingsuit pilot. We are. Yet you tell us we don't know what we're talking about and YOU will tell us how wingsuits will be built. Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds to us? Not to mention offensive?

If you will not listen to them, perhaps you will listen to me. I HAVE tried flying things like what you describe. I am one of the only ones who has ever tried who did NOT die trying. I AM a wingsuit designer. I have built and flown the single largest wingsuit design ever attempted. The only reason I did not die trying was because I made my pieces -relatively- small, and based the design on a known, workable wingsuit I already knew how to fly.

What you describe cannot work. If you build an assembly with rigid pieces that takes the load off the body it is not a wingsuit. It is a hang glider. And it will fly totally differently than a wingsuit will. If it is attached to the limbs it restricts your freedom of movement. If it sticks out beyond your limbs more than about half an arms length it will restrict your freedom of movement enough to kill you.

I KNOW. What I built was a combination exoskeleton tailwing combined with armwings that went all the way to the ankles, connected to the feet by cable struts that allowed me to take some of the load off my arms with my feet. The cable system worked well, but took all the strength I had to fly it, and it could be made no bigger. The exoskeleton tail did not work and the only reason it did not kill me was because I made sure I could fight it with my armwings, overpower it if it did things I did not want it to do, and could collapse the whole assembly behind me so that I could go into normal freefall and still get a parachute open.
After 6 flights with that monster, I stopped trying. There was no point.

Now I am a retired wingsuit designer. My friends are glad because it means I'm still alive. There are limits to what is possible in wingsuit design, and I know what those limits are because unlike you, I've actually DONE IT.

The reason a wingsuit is flyable at all is because the wings are small enough to be controllable with the muscle strength we have. THAT is what makes the wingsuit experience what it is. When we fly our suits, we are light, quick and free. We move easily.

The moment you make hard pieces any bigger than our bodies, movement and control become very difficult, clumsy and slow. I know. I did it. I barely survived it and only because I made sure that it wasn't THAT much bigger than a normal wingsuit.

It wasn't better...it was WORSE. I was barely able to get a parachute open around it. And in flight I was barely able to control it. It was not very steerable. It ruined the wingsuit flight experience. I could fly better without it. The reason I built and flew it was to see if the kind of thing you want to make could be done. You are not the first to come up with these ideas. The answer is NO.

There was no need to keep trying after what I learned from the first few prototypes. What I learned from those flights was that as soon as you add a skeleton, even a simple one, you ruin the wingsuit flight experience.

Accept it.

We are wingsuit pilots. You are not. We know what we are talking about. You do not. We actually fly wingsuits. We know what it feels like and why what you propose is not a workable idea. You came here to ask us about it and instead you ended up telling us we don't know what we're talking about because you did not like the answers you got.

Deal with it.

Go learn to skydive. Build up the hundreds of skydives experience you need to be qualified to try flying a suit. Then learn to fly a wingsuit. Fly a wingsuit about a thousand times until you are good enough to try making your own. Then build one or two suits of your own and see how they work, and why, in person by your own experience. Don't just talk about it from a nice safe keyboard, go DO it.

THEN you will be qualified to try to build your "flying up" wingsuit. But by then, you will understand why it will not work. The picture you have drawn is nothing but a picture. Things like that work well, in cartoons. In real life, connecting artificial rigid struts to your arms with wings 4 times bigger than your muscles can handle is suicide. Many people have already died to learn the knowledge you are trying to ignore. This is why hang gliders exist in the first place.

The only way to support enough wing to go up, is with a frame structure. The only way to control that frame is to hang from it. If you want to try to fly something like what you have in your picture, why don't you start with a small hang glider?

Go ahead. Just cut it down a little, then strap your arms to the wings and try to fly it. Let us know how it works for you if you're still alive and able to speak after the crash.
OR, you could just learn to fly a wingsuit with us and enjoy what IS possible. See you in the air!
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[gisellemartins 0]

when I was in elementary school, we were told that we'd be living on the moon in my lifetime. We were told that no one would ever want a "computer at home" because they ate too much power and were too big. We were told that living on the bottom of the sea would be common-place. They even once sold space shuttle tickets, because the space shuttle was going to be "common travel" in 20 years. 40 years later, the shuttle program is being scrapped.
Sure...in "thousands of years" we might have something along the lines of what you're talking about, but in a thousand years, human bodies won't be very much like they are today either.
Get your butt into a wingsuit and learn to fly in the "now" and not the "tomorrow." I promise you'll understand the dreams of tomorrow once you've experienced the reality of today.

i agree 100% with u that if i want to understand it better i need to start flying a wingsuit first and i already booked my windtunnel to help me get some skills...

Tho Ive been in the air probably thousands time more than u, ive got accumulated knowledge about flying machines and aeorinamics much more than u can imagine, the things i mention is completely unerstandable and real for another person like me but completely confused and nosense for you.

PS. I would like to suggest u something... if u have discovery channel at yours watch this week --- Stephen Hawking - Universe the origin of everthing. Its really worth it.

Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20