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kallend

Multi-plane formations using a tailgate aircraft?

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All the wingsuit multi-plane formations I have been on used Twin Otters, even when a Skyvan was available. Is there a reason tailgate aircraft are not suitable?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I think those who are wiser and more experienced about these things can (and will) chime in, but I think a portion of it is the difficulty in spotting the other aircraft and coordinating exits. Visual becomes tricky as the person "in the door" most likely can't see the other aircraft. Of course, this could be solved by air to air radio, but...
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All the wingsuit multi-plane formations I have been on used Twin Otters, even when a Skyvan was available. Is there a reason tailgate aircraft are not suitable?



The biggest limiting factor is that most locations( except Skydive Arizona) don't have more than one tailgate available to them. Other factors that play into it is that mixing a tail gate with say an otter introduces the differences in climb rates and requires a bit more coordination to time everything correctly on jump run. Another factor, cost to operate (self explanatory) compared to other aircraft.

We used 2 Pink Skyvans in Cochstedt to launch a wingsuit way simply because they were there at the time in lieu of the An-72. We also used an air to air system but coordinating the exit was no more challenging than it is on any other bigway.

There are simply more Otters available, more pilots that can fly them,they climb faster and they are cheaper to operate in comparison to a Skyvan or CASA. If the same were true for tailgate aircraft I'd wager we'd see more used.
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we did it in peperell last year. I was rear float on the otter, and it was actually pretty cool to look up into the tail of the casa and see Justin hanging out on the ramp.

We put the otter low and to the right of the casa, so I had a clear view. I was the key for ou aircraft and I just left when I saw justin jump. I seem to remember it went pretty smooth, probably just not enough tailgate aircraft for it to happen that often.

we also had to do a staggered take off and a meet at altitude as they had different climb rates.

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All the wingsuit multi-plane formations I have been on used Twin Otters, even when a Skyvan was available. Is there a reason tailgate aircraft are not suitable?



The biggest limiting factor is that most locations( except Skydive Arizona) don't have more than one tailgate available to them. Other factors that play into it is that mixing a tail gate with say an otter introduces the differences in climb rates and requires a bit more coordination to time everything correctly on jump run. Another factor, cost to operate (self explanatory) compared to other aircraft.

We used 2 Pink Skyvans in Cochstedt to launch a wingsuit way simply because they were there at the time in lieu of the An-72. We also used an air to air system but coordinating the exit was no more challenging than it is on any other bigway.

There are simply more Otters available, more pilots that can fly them,they climb faster and they are cheaper to operate in comparison to a Skyvan or CASA. If the same were true for tailgate aircraft I'd wager we'd see more used.



In big RW formations the lead plane is usually a tailgate when available, with Otters in trail.

Just thinking that a Skyvan was available at Summerfest lastyear when we did the 25-way from 2 Otters, and Elsinore borrows the Perris Skyvan for their RW bigways, but we didn't use it for the 68-way last Nov.

Should have a Skyvan at Summerfest this year.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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We did it at Pepperell with the CASA and an Otter for a couple of the big way flocks. August 08 CASA Boogie.



oh yea... like that one when the people in each plane relied on the people in the *other* plane to check the spot... and we landed a 40-way a couple miles off... pepperell style...B|

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To be honest, it was nothing mentioned yet in any responses.

While planning the 71 way, in 2008 There was heavy discussion on this topic. Jeff had originally panned for a skyvan to be lead. As the event started coming closer, there was issues with getting the Skyvan, along with mechanical problems.

My opinion was.... Dont fix what is not broke. Wingsuiters can exit otters. Very well. More so that you could be safe to say the average wingsuiter exits an otter better than a casa or skyvan. Because they usually jump otters or similar door caravans on a regular basis. Aside from a few dropzones, people rarely get to jump tailgates. It is usually reserved for special events.

Timing and exit on a Bigway are critical. Using the More familiar Otters, eliminated some of the issues that might have risen by using a tailgate.

In my experience with tailgte bigways ( fairly extensive ) I have found that a Casa with the same amount of jumpers, exits slower than an otter. Despite the tailgate.

People also tend to get blasted and be unstable more often out of tailgates.

So in a nutshell, its easier to use the familiar aircraft. Especially when we do not need the extra capacity.

Justin
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We did it at Pepperell with the CASA and an Otter for a couple of the big way flocks. August 08 CASA Boogie.



oh yea... like that one when the people in each plane relied on the people in the *other* plane to check the spot... and we landed a 40-way a couple miles off... pepperell style...B|




It was a 27 way, and it was and otter and cessna 206 formation load. Cessna lead.
Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
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To be honest, it was nothing mentioned yet in any responses.

While planning the 71 way, in 2008 There was heavy discussion on this topic. Jeff had originally panned for a skyvan to be lead. As the event started coming closer, there was issues with getting the Skyvan, along with mechanical problems.

My opinion was.... Dont fix what is not broke.



Hard to argue with that.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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