peronal reality check on w/s jump 27 - flat spin

[matthias 0]

Before I begin, I apologize for the length of this post. It's in my nature to over-explain things to not be misunderstood. Since the events on this jump nearly cost me my life, I am doing a personal fact-finding analysis that will not only better myself, but save someone else's life as well.

The wingsuit in question is a Phantom2 in which I have 24 jumps. Prior was a borrowed Prodigy with 3 jumps.


-------------------------------------------------------

Hi. I mostly lurk on these forums and don't post often, but wanted to share the details of my past jump. This is not going to be easy for me to write because the content I will be discussing openly and honestly may reflect judgment upon me. I fear that I will be seen as reckless or otherwise unsafe. Its not hard to imagine how someone with hundreds or thousands of wingsuit jumps would feel about an inexperienced newbie potentially tarnishing their sport. I feel the same way about newly A-licensed jumpers who think the BSRs no longer apply to them. -- I could easily hold my piece all together and avoid scrutiny of any kind. Or I can do what I am doing now...and explore an near-incident that could have taken my life, that may benefit more people than just myself.

I will break this post up into sections to try to make it easier to read, and try to stick to the relevant facts as I am aware of them. Before I post the details of my jump...I will point out 2 facts that I didn't take into consideration before this jump..as hard as they may be to admit:

1. I was uncurrent by 2 months with only 27 wingsuit flights.
2. I do not have 200 jumps within the past 18 months.

I make no excuses for these 2, even though my previous 27 wingsuit flights went without incident. Onto the jump:


It was safety day at skydive houston (of all days) and I had gotten my reserve repack. A minor surgery on my wrist had kept me from jumping until I was 100% sure I had the strength to flare and cutaway if I needed to. Due to the previous flights, I was confident in my ability to exit, fly, and pull stable.

I was invited by other wingsuiters to follow them last out the door. Due to my low jump numbers I made it clear I was not going to approach the group but focus on flying smooth and stable while keeping everyone in view. No problem.

Fast forward to the exit. I feel this is what mainly led to the events that happened next. Instead of making the basic, into the wind exit I was taught and had used the other jumps, I simply followed everyone out the door...diving out. Immediately I tumbled and ended up on my back, and glance saw everyone else in the flock tracking toward the horizon. I had flown on my back many times, and had no trouble flipping back over to my stomach and regaining stability. This time, my roll out of bed techniques were not working.

I do not recall very clearly how I entered the flat spin, except that I felt myself no longer tracking on my back to spinning in place as if a tornado caught hold of me, it was that violent and very scary. What saved me is the fact I learned to recognize a flat spin and how to correct it. If I had not done this before putting on my first wingsuit, I would have died from it. - Immediately I attempted to ball up, and as I read..this is not an easy task. The centrifugal force was keeping my body pinned down and my legs didn't quite have the strength to collapse my leg wing. I did not give up. I fought off all thoughts about passing out, dying, life flashing before my eyes, vision turning to grey, all of it. I did feel myself quickly losing consciousness and in a last ditch effort leaned forward and clamped my arms/wings around the backs of my kneecaps and forced them into my chest with my head tucked in. -- This is where my memory fails me. -- I open my eyes as the sound of the 6K' dytter alarm and saw I was positioned belly to earth. I instantly went to full wings and felt myself moving forward vs downward. Calming my nerves I made sure I remained stable, checked my airspace, waved off and went to deploy as I knew how. .... As my luck would happened, my main had a unstowed toggle camouflaged like a stowed one, so I cutaway not knowing for sure what was going on... and then landing safe. Quite a jump no doubt.


Everything listed above are the facts as I distinctly remember them. There are unclear grey areas that occurred around the time I believe that I came close to blacking out from the spin...but I tried to give as much detail as possible so that everything can be analyzed to help other jumpers should they experience this.

My two uncertainties:
1. What caused the flat spin?
2. How did I get belly-to-earth after my final attempt to arrest the spin?

Answers to these two would no doubt help learn from what happened. Despite the 2 honest mistakes I listed at the top, I do wish to say the following in my defense. I understand that I am drawing scrutiny from some of the best wingsuit pilots in the world who post on this forum and expect to hear alot of harsh opinions...but I am posting this on my own accord. Should I have been killed, much of this would have been left to speculation as the other wingsuit pilots left my airspace and couldn't witness.

What I believe saved my life despite the top 2 mistakes, what my learning as much about wingsuit flying as I could before I started. Jenn Hinson, aka Moonglo, was someone I learned alot from. She's been a tough critic of mine as well as a mentor, and urged me to read every last wingsuit incident, particularly regarding flat-spins. To keep this short, This is what I did for two years before I started flying.

And of course...this is where the numbers come in. I had 270 jumps more or less when I flew a prodigy. It's safe to say that if I had half the number of jumps I do now, and half the experience, I wouldn't be here. All I knew at the point before the above jump, was that all 27 previous jumps went very well and I had alot of fun. .. I do realize that if I did have 200 jumps within 18 months or 500 jumps total, that I could have learned wingsuit flying much more rapidly....but I am also aware that incidents have to everyone regardless of their jump number.


The only solid conclusions I can draw as far as what caused the mishaps on the jump from the time of the exit was being uncurrent. This is my honest mistake, assuming that I could competently fly my wingsuit as I was able when I was making 5 flights per week. Instead of following a flock I should have gotten with Jen or another wingsuit coach and went back to the very basics of my first wingsuit flight....or I should have left the wingsuit off of the newly repacked rig and made a few tracking dives to get recurrent period.


I cannot undo what happened, but I can learn from it. Since I am alive to speak of the dive, I am doing so in hopes that someone reads and learns of a flat-spin, so that should one happen to them, they do find themselves unsure of how to get out of it. It is a grim reminder to myself, as well as those hoping to get into the discipline at 200 jumps, that the 18 month/200 jump rule was recommended as a reason. I singled Jen out because she was the only wingsuit pilot who actively got on my ass about education ever since I mentioned an interest. I pushed myself to get knowledgeable to prove to her I wasn't reckless about it.


This is getting long than I intended. Before I close these are my considerations for corrective action: I could either shift my focus to another discipline until jump 500 (despite the only skydiving interests I have is flying a wingsuit), or I can work with a wingsuit coach on tracking dives until they are convinced I can fly my suit again. Either way, it is my interest to fly in a manner that doesn't reflect negatively on me or the discipline I've chosen.

With all of this said, if there are any details you wish for me to elaborate on, or any questions for me at all...I will be happy to try to answer them at best I can. Thank you for reading this.

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[kellja2001 0]

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Thank you for reading this.

Thank you for writing it!

I, like you, am a relatively inexperienced wingsuit pilot, in similar circumstances (although slightly more current - above the "minimum").

Do you believe if you had identified the flat-spin earlier, that it would have been controllable?

Is there any way to simulate a flat spin in controlled conditions?



I like to practice all my drills (including flat-spin scenario) before every jump, but reading this, it does concern me that without experiencing it, I don't know exactly how it would feel.

If possible, I believe with a simulated experience, it might be possible to identify the problem earlier, and deal with it better.

I'm not going to sit on my high-horse (as I'm sure many of the DZ.com population will), but rather I would like to say good on you for identifying the problem, and sharing it openly and honestly with others so they can learn from your experience.

Glad to hear you're ok!

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I was invited by other wingsuiters to follow them last out the door. Due to my low jump numbers I made it clear I was not going to approach the group but focus on flying smooth and stable while keeping everyone in view. No problem.

Fast forward to the exit. I feel this is what mainly led to the events that happened next. Instead of making the basic, into the wind exit I was taught and had used the other jumps, I simply followed everyone out the door...diving out. Immediately I tumbled and ended up on my back, and glance saw everyone else in the flock tracking toward the horizon. I had flown on my back many times, and had no trouble flipping back over to my stomach and regaining stability. This time, my roll out of bed techniques were not working.

Take it easy! You have to get back and practice diving exit. Every tumble you make and recover makes you a better flier.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Is there any way to simulate a flat spin in controlled conditions?

Sure, take a rider and exit tumble is guaranteed.
You can try stable exit with a rider it might not happen.
what you have to do is stabilize and make it fly.

[LouDiamond 1]

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My two uncertainties:
1. What caused the flat spin?
2. How did I get belly-to-earth after my final attempt to arrest the spin?

Matt,
I am glad to hear you are Ok and applaud you for sharing your experience with the community. I just gave the USPA safety day briefing on wingsuits at the Skydive Expo in Deland and spoke about this very subject in detail. It's one of those topics that always seems to come up every so often and it is also one I sadly hear explained incorrectly. In a post I made back in 2005 on this subject I outlined Learning Points after a very bad flat spin was had by one jumper and the video was uploaded to Skydiving movies for all to learn from. Sadly, that web site is no longer available but the video still exists and I use it in my seminar along with other flatspin videos. Even though the learning points are in response to a separate incident, they are applicable to all flatspins. In your case, without seeing video, I would make an educated guess that:

#1. Your initial instability on exit and subsequent body position lead to inducing the flat spin.
#2. You were fortunate enough to finally stop the flat spin and realize you had luckily returned to a belly to earth orientation, which doesn't always happen automatically simply by balling up. Most people HAVE TO make a physical effort to return to a belly to earth orientation and then resume flying.

The only way to stop a flat spin is to remove as much of the surface area that is generating the spin as possible as quickly as possible. That is why balling up into a fetal position is the correct way to stop a flat spin. Doing this breaks the actual flat spin which is where the G forces will eventually cause blackout. It does not however stop tumbling and or instability. This is why one must be able to identify when the flat spin has been dealt with, which is the rapid spinning, and when one is now in a tumble and or un-stable orientation.

It is entirely possible to stop the flat spin and still be tumbling on any of the axis because you are curled up into a ball. There is a marked difference between a flat spin and tumbling and this is where the jumper must be able to differentiate. How does one differentiate? This is where prior experiences gained from doing acrobatics in a wingsuit and or tumbling on a normal skydive come into play as they serve as your frame of reference for determining when you've gone from being in a washing machine on spin cycle to simply tumbling.

Once you've established that you are simply tumbling, you need to make an effort to regain stability. That usually involves stopping any rotation and or returning to a belly to earth orientation. The important part here is that the jumper must know that they must do something. Simply balling up and staying balled up is not a solution and it will not return a jumper to a belly to earth orientation. The jumper must make an effort to stop the tumbling/instability and regain a stable belly to earth orientation. It can be viewed as a 3 step process:

1. Stop the flat spin: Ball up into fetal position....which leads to #2
2. Stop the tumbling: Regain stability using arms and then legs and or roll over once the location of the ground is known..which leads to #3
3. Resume flying


I do not advocate the arching out of it technique because I feel it is misleading and causes people to waste time and allows a real flat spin to build momentum. If you can arch out of it, you are not in a real flat spin, you are experiencing a form of instability no matter how exciting or fast you think it is. In terms most people can relate to, a merry go round best demonstrates the difference. Most people remember as a kid laying on the merry go round on their back as someone spun it to the point where you could feel the G forces and you could not move, that is a flat spin. Since we are talking about something that happens in a split second and a decision that has to be made by the jumper in another split second wasting time trying to arch is not a good course of action in my opinion, balling up in a fetal position is. If it turns out to not be a serious flat spin but just some instability you can recover quickly and resume flying. If it is a true flat spin, you stopped it before it built momentum and returned to flight. It is also easier to remember when you are hit with one. BAM!...what do I do? Ball up. How easy is that for the brain to process and the body to do?



In my book, Skyflying Wingsuits in Motion I cover skills that need to be mastered before moving into acrobatics which addresses flat spins and instability issues that can be encountered while attempting these moves. That section could also be a good primer for someone before going to a larger suit.


One thing I have seen recently that needs to made clear that when balling up all the wings must be collapsed. Recent flatspin incidents have video showing the jumper pulling their knees to their chest but not collapsing the tail wing. The jumper MUST close their legs until their knees and ankles touch one another while balling up. Likewise the arm wings must be collapsed as much as possible by ensuring the elbows are tight against the torso. This is even more crucial as some suits have very large arm wings that extend down the torso to the mid thigh area. On some leg wings, the wing may stay inflated even when your knees and ankles are touching. However, reducing the actual wing surface,whether the inflated leg wing pops in front of your legs or behind when they are closed, will still aid in stopping the flat spin.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BenediktDE 2]

You still did a lot of things right:

you noticed you are in a spin
you started the correct action (trying to ball up)
you noticed it is harder than expected
you tried harder and balled up successfully
you noticed when you where in a stable position again and restarted flying

after such a ride you did your emergency procedure perfectly as well.

To me it sounds like a jump full of perfectly managed malfunctions.
Well done, dude!

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[Idgy 0]

Thanks for and sharing. Glad you landed that one alright.

My question for the experienced flyers here, is what about cutting away the wings in a flat spin. If you could free your arms, would that be a first step in regaining stability? I imagine you would still need to ball up, but coming out of the ball with arms would help a lot I think.

Has anyone here cut their arm wings before?

[phoenixlpr 0]

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My question for the experienced flyers here, is what about cutting away the wings in a flat spin.

Why would you think that help you? Some flapping material? Closing your leg wing would serve you better.

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Has anyone here cut their arm wings before?

Not in flight. I got jammed zipper several times.

[Idgy 0]

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My question for the experienced flyers here, is what about cutting away the wings in a flat spin.

Why would you think that help you? Some flapping material? Closing your leg wing would serve you better.

I am asking if it might be easier to come out of the ball with your arms free. I understand that the leg wing needs to be closed, I am just asking if use of the arms would make it easier to return to a stable position for deployment.

[DSE 3]

No. Do not cut your armwings free.
A-takes time you may not have.
B-Spins are caused by asymmetrical surfaces. Cutting away a wing isn't likely going to help you, but it likely will help the spin continue.

FWIW, a lot of experienced wingsuiters have experimented with flat spin recovery techniques. Ever since seeing how Nebelkopf intitiates and recovers from very violent flatspins and seeing Matt Gold's video from Moab, I've played with them quite a bit.
I'm of the "collapse wings, arch, fly out of it" camp. I've logged 15 jumps with intentional flat spins, one violent enough to give me bloodshot eyes. Balling up in a big suit, big body, and not being very flexible didn't work nearly as well as collapsing, arching, flying. Just like we all learned in AFF. Different suits, different body styles, different instructors...YMMV

BTW, if you watch the "Wingsuits 202" DVD, you'll see a couple small flatspins, and in one, the student balls up and it takes a long while to get out while the other (in a worse spin) tracks out of it very quickly.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I am asking if it might be easier to come out of the ball with your arms free. I understand that the leg wing needs to be closed, I am just asking if use of the arms would make it easier to return to a stable position for deployment.

What is your stable deployment position? Box or Delta?
I agree with DSE above.

[matthias 0]

Lou I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write your response, and wish to thank everyone else for their input. The gap in my memory of the jump comes during the the Step 2 of the 3-step process. I do not know if I sub-consciously made an effort to regain stability after the spin stopped or if I tumbled into a belly-to-earth position and succeeding in flying out of it. I was still seeing stars after I landed...which may explain why I couldn't recognize the unstowed toggle before cutting away lol.

I love wingsuit flying and it is my wish to continue with it. I've always dreamt of flying and this is the only sub-discipline that gives me that sensation. :)

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[Birdman_Mike 0]

Hi Matt,

That jump was almost your 300th jump, right?

Purple Mike

[LouDiamond 1]

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My question for the experienced flyers here, is what about cutting away the wings in a flat spin.

Why would you think that help you? Some flapping material? Closing your leg wing would serve you better.

I am asking if it might be easier to come out of the ball with your arms free. I understand that the leg wing needs to be closed, I am just asking if use of the arms would make it easier to return to a stable position for deployment.

The short answer is no. In my post above I linked to an earlier incident (learning points) that answers your question as that jumper did cut their arm wings away and in the video you can see their spin get even more violent . Point four covers your question. Here are those learning points from that post:




FIRST LEARNING POINT
For those who want to start flying a wingsuit prior to the recommended minimums due to a suits ease of use or features or without receiving proper training: No matter how easy it is to fly a wingsuit, it is not a normal skydive just like a tandem isn't a normal skydive. Flying a wingsuit is not particularly hard.However, when things go bad, they usually go bad quickly and having the proper training and prescence of mind to handle the situation is critical. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE FOR PROPER TRAINING OR EXPERIENCE, PERIOD

SECOND LEARNING POINT
The jumper involved is of average wingsuit experience and had not had any issues up until that point. The jumper thought they knew what the right procedures were to stop a spin. However it is evident from their actions that they were not completly clear on what those procedures are. While the jumper attempted to close everything down, they failed to bring their knees up towards their chest and actualy "ball up" or cannon ball. When one finds themselves in a flat spin the first reaction should be to "ball up" as tightly as possible. Failure to do so will result in your continuing to spin and an increase in G forces until you pass out or stop the spin. "Balling up" means that ones legs are together and the knees are brought to the chest as tightly as possible and the arms brought in to ones sides, elbows preferably touching ones torso.

THIRD LEARNING POINT
Not "balling up" completely will result in your basically becoming a helicopter blade. Flat spins will more than likely have you in a back to earth configuration at some point if not for the duration of the event. Stopping or breaking the flat spin is the #1 priority. Once that G inducing flat spin is stopped, the next step one should be concerned with is regaining stability and a belly to earth orientation. This requires one to make an effort to find the ground while rotating through possibly all axis. Once the spin is broken, it turns into a rotating tumble and is manageable as long as one makes an effort to orient themselves and maintains the balled up position. Once the ground is located and the jumper makes an attempt to regain a belly to earth type orientation, the arm wings should be opened up. At this stage any residual rotation should stop and the legs can be extended and the leg wing opened back up and normal flight resumed.

FOURTH LEARNING POINT
Cutting the arm wings away is not going to stop a flat spin. Focusing on trying to cut away ones wings while on their back and spinning uncontrolably is a waste of valuable time. As seen in the video, the jumpers rate and violence of spinning actually started to increase after they managed to cut the arm wings away. Once the arm wings are cut away the jumper has zero control over the arm wing fabric. The arm wings will continue to catch air and partially if not fully inflate, there by creating more surface area for the spin to work with. Likewise, cutting ones leg wing or pulling the LQRS will have a similar effect and result.


If you fly a wingsuit for any amount of time, you will eventually experience a moment of instability and /or a flat spin that will require you to act immediately. Instability and flat spins are easy to recover from if one is quick to react properly to the situation. It is entirely possible to encounter a flat spin or moment of instability and regain ones ability to fly. If you ever perform acrobatics or fly in flocks you will have to deal with this usually on exit or when someone bumps you inside of a flock. The key is not wasting time and following proper procedures when this does occur.

I cover this a bit more in depth in Skyflying, Wingsuits in Motion and it will also be one of the topics that I cover during the wingsuit seminar during the Dropzone.com Holiday boogie. If any one has any questions, please feel free to PM or e-mail me

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mccordia 73]

I do see a lot of people listing balling up as the last option. Which its not.

1. arch
2. ball up
3. throw pilotchute

Its a last resort, but better have a main with 20 linetwist to cut away from into a clean reserve deployment, than a (hopefully present) cypres trying to fix it with a reserve at 750 feet.
This 3 step recovery should be standard in any first flight course.
It was also demonstrated with great effect by a skydiver in at Zhills sometime ago, after a skydiver made a coaching-jump on a way oversized suit for his experience level of 3 jumps. He ended up doing 1,2,3. With the step 3 being own initiative, rather than being part of the FFC.
Sadly that person is now also 'lost' to wingsuit flying, as wel as having a complete lack of trust, faith and support in wingsuit instruction. While he could have been THE person that could have helped us move a step further.
People teaching (coaching and ffcs) should be aware of rules, recommendations and open to practical application of new knowledge.
And like the first poster, have the balls to share their mistakes and laps in judgement as examples. Rather that sugercoating or hiding it for a more PR friendly image.

I also second DSE on the subject of cutting away wings in freefall. It may be a mental crutch some people need, but its a counter productive measure with regards to the flatspin cause.
A lot of example 'disaster' videos show legs that are still stretched, people cutting arwings etc.
And the lack of knowledge on the subject by some jumpers is sometimes shocking.

DSE also correctly mentions a lot of knowledge preached on recovery and reserve deployment techniques could also do with updating based on practical experience with current 'big surface' wingsuit models. A low armwing-root, legwings extended past the feet and improved inflation techniques radically change the dynamics of a spin or encountered instability.
And older techniques dont always give the most complete answer if they are not updated to current construction standards and design features of high end wingsuits.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[matthias 0]

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Hi Matt,

That jump was almost your 300th jump, right?

Purple Mike

Almost

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[dragon2 0]

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No. Do not cut your armwings free.
A-takes time you may not have.
B-Spins are caused by asymmetrical surfaces. Cutting away a wing isn't likely going to help you, but it likely will help the spin continue.

Also:
C-Opening your canopy gets more interesting without arm wings. You can have a harder opening if you're more headdown, and if you're not very carefull in closing down your legwing on opening you can actually frontflip right through your risers. This actually happened to a fellow wingsuiter who borrowed my Safire in lieu of his usual Stiletto - he loved the way the Safire still flew fine, after his step- eh flythrough!

I wouldn't cut away my arm wings in freefall unless I really had to, perhaps because of unsymmetrical flight like one wing coming loose, some situation like that.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[The111 0]

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I am asking if it might be easier to come out of the ball with your arms free. I understand that the leg wing needs to be closed, I am just asking if use of the arms would make it easier to return to a stable position for deployment.

Coming out of the ball is a piece of cake, there is no way or reason to make it easier. The problems most people have are:

1) Getting into the ball. They either physically can't get into it, or more likely, just think they can't.
2) Not staying in the ball long enough. They think the ball is making them spin faster and immediately get afraid and get out of it. And it's true, the ball WILL make you spin faster... INITIALLY. This is only due to rotational inertia and not aerodynamics at all. You need to STAY in the ball for a good 5 seconds (assuming you have altitude of course, if you don't... PULL) and wait for it to start to slow down. If you're scared you may think that 1 second was 10 seconds, and immediately abort the ball when it would have helped you if you'd only stayed in it. I've seen this far too many times.

Step 1: ball up
Step 2: wait
Step 0: STAY CALM

You can check your alti while you're in the ball. You probably have all the time in the world. DON'T PANIC. You will speed up at first. If you panic and abort the ball, you've just taken one step forward and two back. WAIT in the ball until the spinning slows down. Then you can come out of the ball, and you won't need any assistance doing so. It's easy. I have never once heard of somebody getting stuck in a ball (because it's not possible).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[droquette 0]

I first met Jeff N. at Rantouls a few years ago.. his eyes had just popped out of his head because of a flat spin he had... his eyes were so bloodshot the entire freefall convention it had everybody freaked out! Good times.

I have had my share of flat spins... ball up and fly out of it.. if that doesnt work just PULL and pray.

HISPA 72 ----- "Muff Brother" 3733

[matthias 0]

I would again like to thank everyone for their input on this post. It definitely helps me understand the situation I was in a little bit more clearly, and will help in the occurrence that it happens again.

While it is interesting to note, as I only wanted to focus on the flat spin, I did infact have a spinning mal/reserve ride on this same jump. In short--a brake had either came unstowed during my opening...which was astable one, or had failed to stow the toggle properly during packing.

My first thought was to cutaway the wings and check the toggles, although...since both toggles looked perfectly stowed, I focused my efforts on cutting away before I got below my hard-deck.

Heh...I know I owe beer for this jump. A flat-spin and a spinning mal. Not too mention being very dizzy under the reserve. ... And luckily got all of my gear back lol.

I waited to mention this part of it as it was the flat-spin I wanted the attention focused on. Canopy/cut-away wise I feel I made the best decisions based on what information I had at the time with the low altitude. -- Stay focused, stay calm, stay safe.

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[Martini 0]

Well you sure got your money's worth out of that jump. Are you a U.A. apprentice?

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[littlestranger 0]

did you throw the handles?