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Bip

Progidy2 or Phantom2

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Hi guys, I have a couple of questions if I may. I have read the stickys and most of the threads on this forum. I have also read the manufacturers manuals. I just need a bit of advice from guys that actually do it.

Details first: I am 52 years old, 5’7” tall and weigh about 190lb (nekkid) and have about 1650 jumps. I currently jump a Pulse-170.

My goal with wingsuiting is only to enjoy myself. Maybe some flocking if I get good enough.

I have been toying with the idea of getting a Phoenix-Fly Prodigy2. The reason for this is the ease of use, I have no experience and it does not cost so much if I decide I do not like wingsuiting.. My plan was to buy one then take a wingsuit course when the season starts in Norway or fly down to Empuriabrava.

But reading threads on this forum I have started to have doubts.

I am short, fat and round. Would I be merely a guided bomb with a Progidy2. ;)
I have read a lot of enthusiasm for the Phantom2 would that be a better bet for
My kind of body shape/size? Could I start straight off with a Phantom2?

Another consideration I have is I had a rotator cuff operation last year. My left shoulder is weakened. Do these suits put a lot of pressure on the shoulders?

Sorry for such a long post.. Just trying to set my thoughts out.

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I think the added lift the Phantom2 gives you over the prodigy2 will be an advantage you'll need, judging your description on body build/weight.

As to pressure on the arms. There is some added strain from longer flying, and use of different musscles than normal. But I wouldnt say its any different compared to normal skydiving.

A lot of people experience muscle pains/cramps from over-tensing the wings, and a deathgrip on the wing/grippers. But its not something thats should happen.

Regardless, should Norway not work out, and Empuria be too far...you're always welcome to drop by in Holland/Belgium (halfway down) for some fun flying..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I have no experience and it does not cost so much if I decide I do not like wingsuiting.. My plan was to buy one then take a wingsuit course when the season starts in Norway or fly down to Empuriabrava.

But reading threads on this forum I have started to have doubts.

Just trying to set my thoughts out.



If I were you I would reverse the plan, first take a course, your instructor will likely have rental suits for you to try, get feedback from your instructor, order the suit that is appropriate.
B|

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Another consideration I have is I had a rotator cuff operation last year. My left shoulder is weakened. Do these suits put a lot of pressure on the shoulders?



I can't say anything about your injury, but I can give you my own experience. I dislocated my right shoulder last year and was back flying my V3 after about 2 months (beasting the physio exercises!) with no problems, even though my shoulder certainly wasn't yet 100%. The arm position for normal wingsuiting actually seemed to hold my shoulder in a more secure position.

I roughly tested it out before hand by putting my arm into a wingsuity position and replicating-ish the forces by pushing hard against a door frame for a minute or so at a time - seemed OK so I went for it.

Make of that what you will, and bear in mind that I'm not really very sensible:P

(And the Phantom series are great suits, definitely appropriate for a first suit - and probably the only one you'll ever need)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Hi Bip,

I am the same age and weight as you, but a bit taller.
Eighteen months ago I dislocated a shoulder and it took most of year for my achromium clavicular ligament to heal to the point that I could resume wingsuiting.
A few years back, I did about fifty jumps on Birdman Classic and Crossbow wingsuits, but this past August I tried a Prodigy 2 and really enjoyed it.
Sorry, but I have not jumped a Phantom.
Like the other poster said: book some lessons with a wingsuit instructor and remind him about your weak shoulder, so that he will start you with a small-wing suit, Once you more than a dozen wingsuit jumps - under supervision - you will know much better which size of suit to buy.

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Thank you for all your replies. It probably is a better idea for me to wait untill I have had instruction. I was/am a bit worried that most of the season will pass me by before I get setup. At my age every season is valuble. ;)

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It's really hard for me to comment on the shoulder stuff, but in general, I will answer about the suits.

First, get a Phantom2.
Then, get a Phantom2.
In conclusion, get a Phantom2.

SUCH a great suit. It has LESS shoulder pressure than most comparably sized suits I've flown. But I haven't flown a Prodigy2. Though the old Prodigy with its single skin arm actually had quite a bit of arm pressure (but that was of course due to the single skin thing).
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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Ive flown both the Prodigy 1 and the Phantom 2. I did only one jump on the prodigy many months before the Phantom 2, and I ended up buying a Phantom 2 which I have been flying since. There is significantly less arm pressure in the Phantom 2 and it is not a difficult suit to fly well at all. You will never outgrow it(unless you really, really, really want to :) ), and it will retain its resale value as everybody wants one nowadays. I had the old model P2 at firts and upgraded to the Phantom 2z for ease of switching between rigs and both the arm and leg wings are slightly larger than the earlier version of the P2 which gives it quite the performance advantage(IMHO), but still retains its ease of flying and ease of finding the PC at pull time.

Get a Phantom 2z and don't look back. I had ordered both a brand new Phantom 2z and a V3 at the same time(knowing that the V3 would take several months longer to arrive), but I love the P2z so much that I canceled my V3 order. Its just that good of a suit, you really don't need anything bigger for all around flying.

Also, I have shoulder problems stemming from a torn rotator cuff several years ago and have noticed no discomfort while flying the suit, it really just feels natural.

(Disclaimer: I am a novice wingsuiter with less than 50 wingsuit flights, but you being a novice wingsuiter as well, I thought that you might benefit from my opinion on the subject even though overall you have many more jumps than I do)

Have fun either way

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Thanks for all the good posts.

Couloirman what does the "Z" mean in the Phantom 2z ?



Z stands for zipper. P2z is updated version of P2 with zipper attachments to your harness (rather than traditional cables) which are much nicer and faster for hooking up your suit. It also might have a slightly different wing profile than P2, but is basically the same suit. I think the P2z is standard now anyway, but it can't hurt to ask for it. Definitely what you want.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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The Phantom2z is the only version thats being made. So everyone gets the same up to date model. The P2z is a radical update on the P2, but not visualy deemed enough of a change to warrent a P3 name..

But performancewise, its quite a different animal compared to the previous ittirations...B|

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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The Phantom2z is the only version thats being made. So everyone gets the same up to date model. The P2z is a radical update on the P2, but not visualy deemed enough of a change to warrent a P3 name..

But performancewise, its quite a different animal compared to the previous ittirations...B|



There could be P2s out without zipper, some of those might be even for sale.

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The Phantom2z is the only version thats being made. So everyone gets the same up to date model. The P2z is a radical update on the P2, but not visualy deemed enough of a change to warrent a P3 name..

But performancewise, its quite a different animal compared to the previous ittirations...B|



So what else did Robi do to it? I've not been able to compare a P2 and P2z side by side yet.

Zippers, inlets, and...:)
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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new features:
  • clean leading edge
  • new inlet design (taken from the V3) for better pressurization
  • new cutaway design (cleaner system, freeing arms completely of any wing fabric attached)
  • quick zipper rigging system
  • slightly altered wing profile/size

    The updates Robi introduced on the P2z already a year ago, are now standard on every suit ordered. Several mods go across the production line, and can be found on most current '2' designs of the PF product range.

    Its never needed to ask for the latest version, its always whats made.
    New designs coming out are always announced ahead of time, so people wont get caught ordering something 'old'.

    Looking forward to see everything 2010 will bring us!
    JC
    FlyLikeBrick
    I'm an Athlete?
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    Hi all, I thought I would re-visit my thread and let you know how it went.

    With Jarno's good help I got my Phantom 2 wingsuit yesterday. I am looking forward to my first flight in April. Untill then I am dirt diving as much as I can. ;)

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    Hi all,

    Sorry for resurrecting this thread again. I just thought I would let you know how it went.

    Last weekend I qualified as a wingsuit pilot.

    I had been a bit unlucky trying to get some instruction. I had planned to take a course in Spain earlier in the year but the instructor got injured so that had to be cancelled. Then on my next attempt I got suck in England during a business trip because of the Icelandic volcano eruption.

    I ended up taking a course in Norway which I am very happy about as I feel I received outstanding instruction and help.

    I have to say though, I did not find it easy flying a wingsuit. Several times during my first flights I flipped over or lost stability. I always regain stability but it did scare me a bit.

    Some of my openings were rather wobbly (to put it mildly) but my last couple of flights were pretty reasonable and stable so I will just have to carry on and get better at it.

    I had mentioned earlier that I had a rotator cuff injury. This has caused no problems but I am noticing a stinging feeling which feels like a healing sting. It is probably activating unused muscles.

    Unfortunately I have no photos or video. That will come later.

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