mccordia 73 #26 December 9, 2009 I know the hole on most other suits is the size it is, to allow for size variations and handle placement. A single, small hole may give a perfect fit on one suit/rig, and end up in fabric riding against the handle with a lot of tension on others. Resulting in either swallowed handles (a tiny, tiny hole can swallow handles as well, if there is enough tension) or handles actually being pushed out of the MLW. There have been some incidents with ill-fitting S-Fly's by people who should have flown a size bigger, and several some ones in Jii-Wings suits. But the size of the hole was NEVER the cause of that. Its the placement, and how it rides up against the handle or not. The Jii-Wings suit has a slit, the size of the MLW, and even there, its possible to have it swallow a handle. So good job on someone informing you on the problem of handles being swallowed. But its a suit size/hole PLACEMENT issue...not a hole size issue..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #27 December 9, 2009 Just to clarrify: Quotethe zipper goes down completely to the bottom end of the pillow, which prevents the pillow from being sucked into the suit, as it is possible on some other designs. The suits where I have seen the handles get 'sucked' into the suit, this was exactly the case. The webbing was so tight against the pillow/MLW, it put tension on it when sitting in the plane or when the suit rides up a bit on opening (which is the actual crucial moment where you may need them). There is a bit of slack bellow the MLW/Handle for a reason on the S-Fly, TonySuit, PF suits for a reason. And usually when there is a sizing issue, the zipper/fabric rides close to the handle. It doesnt have to be an issue. But for sure isnt the thing that prevents it. A handle can poke through a hole 1/3d the size if there is enough pressure on it. The only real cause for handles getting sucked it, is incorrect hole placement. Which is 100% related to how well a suit fits. As long as the sizing on the suit you order is spot on, thats not an issue..But some slack near the handles, is for sure not a a bad thing.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #28 December 9, 2009 QuoteThe suits where I have seen the handles get 'sucked' into the suit, this was exactly the case. The webbing was so tight against the pillow/MLW, it put tension on it when sitting in the plane or when the suit rides up a bit on opening (which is the actual crucial moment where you may need them). There is a bit of slack bellow the MLW/Handle for a reason on the S-Fly, TonySuit, PF suits for a reason. And usually when there is a sizing issue, the zipper/fabric rides close to the handle. It doesnt have to be an issue. But for sure isnt the thing that prevents it. A handle can poke through a hole 1/3d the size if there is enough pressure on it. The only real cause for handles getting sucked it, is incorrect hole placement. Which is 100% related to how well a suit fits. As long as the sizing on the suit you order is spot on, thats not an issue..But some slack near the handles, is for sure not a a bad thing. I got my handles sucked in with a borrowed V3, I have not got that problem with my Stealth. That was a bit tight fit anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #29 December 9, 2009 usually related to QuoteThe only real cause for handles getting sucked it, is incorrect hole placement. Which is 100% related to how well a suit fits. If you stand on the ground, with a rig on, and reach up. The hole still shouldnt be close to the handle. On any suit. Ive seen people give sketchy looks in the plane about their handles and suit fit (on just about any brand) and usually do the stupid thing, and jump it anyways. Just like you wouldnt jump a container/rig that doesnt close or fit properly. Dont jump a wingsuit if it doesnt go allong with your rig. Any rig. Any wingsuit. Its a fit issue, related to any brand. Check it, and be safe...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #30 December 10, 2009 QuoteIts a fit issue, related to any brand. Check it, and be safe... Hence my point in asking the question to Balu. It's a measurement/ill-fitting suit issue that the Blade II may actually suffer more, vs less, because of the design. Measurements are critical (even though I was measured by both a BMI and a Master Rigger, my Blade never did fit right). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balu 1 #31 December 10, 2009 Thanks for the explanation Jarno. I found out it was a Ghost 2, so I take your statement as from the manufacturer.1300 Sprünge, 100er Wingsuit Formation, viele nette Menschen kennengelernt, keine Unfälle. Schön war's! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #32 December 10, 2009 Id actually heard that stated as an SFly before. And have also heard scary stories on other suits/brands. Which shows its more about fit, than any specific company. Incorrect cable rigging easily caused the same issue for many in the past. In general, when you hear bad stuff on one brand coming from another manufacturer, its usually more marketing than safety. If they really found some safety concerns (like non functioning cutaways or legwing zippers opening in freefall) they would directly contact the manufacturer, and not just spread vague rumors among the people they train. This 'handle issue' goes for ANY wingsuit, model or brand: Make sure a wingsuit fits properly. Make sure your handles are clear and accesable. Thats not a manufacturer quote, thats common sense and safety..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #33 December 10, 2009 Quote This 'handle issue' goes for ANY wingsuit, model or brand: Oh, really? What are these 'handles' of which you speak? But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #34 December 10, 2009 Quote Quote This 'handle issue' goes for ANY wingsuit, model or brand: Oh, really? What are these 'handles' of which you speak? The cutaway some smart* basejumpers have in case of water or tree landings*not youJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #35 December 10, 2009 You're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperGirl 0 #36 December 10, 2009 Quote You're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues. and... "I can ride my bike with no handlebars, no handlebars, no handlebars..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #37 December 10, 2009 I hope that first you did at least 200 bike rides, and were trained by a qualified 'no handlebars' coach. Smooth roads. But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #38 December 10, 2009 QuoteYou're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues. You know they're talking about the handles on the rig, right?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #39 December 10, 2009 Quote You're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues. We're talking canopy cutaway/reserve handles here I've seen a reserve handle vanish once into a good fitting suit, just incorrectly rigged that one time (one tab difference). Luckily I could point it out on the ground ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #40 December 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues. You know they're talking about the handles on the rig, right? Nope, I wasn't.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #41 December 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou're right. I wouldn't base jump in my suit, and not just for the landings. Some suits made for skydiving, on the other hand, don't need cutaways at all. Just pointing out, no handles, no issues. You know they're talking about the handles on the rig, right? Nope, I wasn't. You know they're talking about the handles on the rig, right?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #42 December 10, 2009 I do now, thanks. I did think they were talking about the cut away handles, because I've never had the ones on my rig come anywhere close to doing that. Anyway, thanks for setting me straight.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #43 December 16, 2009 Close ups of the handles and the zipper system on the Blade II. As can be seen, the hole is just big enough to accommodate the main lift web width. It is highly improbable that a pillow handle could slip through the opening and for those who have hard handles on the reserve side, even more so. The design simply doesn't allow for a handle to enter into the suit any more than the original cable system does. While worn Cutaway handle side Cutaway handle side 2 Reserve handle side Reserve handles side 2"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #44 December 16, 2009 On the Jii wings suit there isnt even a hole, but just a slit the size of the MLW, and even there its possible. Highly unlikely maybe, but just like any other suit. A wrong fit and openingshock can do things that change your view on that one. Talk to Andy Ford about cutting away his main by using thumbs hooked behind the cables, if you need more convincing. Its about hole placement, relative to your handles. Not the size of the hole. The hole pictured here seems similar sized to the one on other suits/brands. As unlikely as it may seem to you. Pinchecks! See if the fit and placement of the hole is correct. Not every rig is the same. Check for tension on the handles when sitting down. Fabric may never touch/ride against the bottom of the handles. A handle pushed out is just as bad as one swallowed. And this suit and system isnt any different than other suits/brands (I used to own a home-modified prototype suit with this exact system/setup..100% identical to these pictures. I do know this setup 'quite' well). Be safe. Tell people to always check for a proper fit, and dont let 'unlikely' be a reason for skipping that. Nice looking suit..good to see the improvements over the initial Blade.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #45 December 16, 2009 Dude, it's so good to see they used your designs! Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #46 December 17, 2009 Quote Dude, it's so good to see they used your designs! pssssssst! Not so loud. For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #47 December 19, 2009 Ooops. Did i just use my outside voice?Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
