MarkM 0
QuoteWingsuiters are an inclusive group. Flocks are often flown with wings half shut down so we can stay with the weaker flyers. We don't just say tough shit, I'm a skygod and I only fly legs out, then take off and abandon our friends in the sky. We fly with wings at less than maximum so we can enjoy the company of and fly with our FRIENDS.
THAT is the "American way of flying."
This. Tomorrow's leet flyers are today's 70+ fall rate rocks that can barely hold a slot. Leave them behind to fly on their own and we can watch our discipline wither and die since they'll just get bored and go back to RW.
Quote... they'll just get bored and go back to RW.
can you really be that bored?
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
lurch 0
Exactly.
If I only flew with people who could stay with me when I'm flying maxed out, I'd be flying alone. I'm just a skinny critter so thats how it is.
I LOVE flying maxed out. I do it every flock... at breakoff. Ask me if I give a damn about the performance I might not be using on any given flock or the freefall time I'm missing. One of the things I love most about the experience of flying with a whole bunch of birds is seeing their faces lit up in flight. "Look, there's a puffy to surf, LETS GO GET IT!"
It is possible to both be inclusive and elite about it in the same flight with the same friends depending on how much hardcore flying they are ready for. One by one I see our new flyers go from 70 mph bricks to world class birds pulling 2.5+ with ease. We've got a bunch of elite birds around here. If you're an up-and-coming bird, you know you've made it into the elite when you get the invitation: "Hey... at breakoff? Come play."
I guess I just don't understand where the negative attitude comes from and I'm getting annoyed with it. Are we such a bunch of skygods we can't back off the gas pedal a bit to include everyone? If we want to go off work on our leet skillz fly legs out and gloat over how well we fly we can go do a freakin' solo. We're flying with our legs bent so everyone gets to participate. I enjoy a good maxed out flight, whenever theres nobody else around to fly with or I need to get somewhere in a hurry. Some flocks, I've got my armwings almost behind my back so I can keep up. Why on earth would I give someone a hard time about that? Hell, my crowd gives ME a hard time about it...all in good fun. If I start to go skygod my friends will put rocks in my pockets and laugh at my arrogant ass. I can indulge myself all I want at breakoff. Flocking is all about being with the group and making sure as many people as possible get to enjoy flight as much as I do. I couldn't give a damn WHAT the fallrate is when I'm flying with some newb or midrange bird whose face is so lit up about the cloud we're going to surf they look like they're gonna pop. THATS flying.
-B
If I only flew with people who could stay with me when I'm flying maxed out, I'd be flying alone. I'm just a skinny critter so thats how it is.
I LOVE flying maxed out. I do it every flock... at breakoff. Ask me if I give a damn about the performance I might not be using on any given flock or the freefall time I'm missing. One of the things I love most about the experience of flying with a whole bunch of birds is seeing their faces lit up in flight. "Look, there's a puffy to surf, LETS GO GET IT!"
It is possible to both be inclusive and elite about it in the same flight with the same friends depending on how much hardcore flying they are ready for. One by one I see our new flyers go from 70 mph bricks to world class birds pulling 2.5+ with ease. We've got a bunch of elite birds around here. If you're an up-and-coming bird, you know you've made it into the elite when you get the invitation: "Hey... at breakoff? Come play."
I guess I just don't understand where the negative attitude comes from and I'm getting annoyed with it. Are we such a bunch of skygods we can't back off the gas pedal a bit to include everyone? If we want to go off work on our leet skillz fly legs out and gloat over how well we fly we can go do a freakin' solo. We're flying with our legs bent so everyone gets to participate. I enjoy a good maxed out flight, whenever theres nobody else around to fly with or I need to get somewhere in a hurry. Some flocks, I've got my armwings almost behind my back so I can keep up. Why on earth would I give someone a hard time about that? Hell, my crowd gives ME a hard time about it...all in good fun. If I start to go skygod my friends will put rocks in my pockets and laugh at my arrogant ass. I can indulge myself all I want at breakoff. Flocking is all about being with the group and making sure as many people as possible get to enjoy flight as much as I do. I couldn't give a damn WHAT the fallrate is when I'm flying with some newb or midrange bird whose face is so lit up about the cloud we're going to surf they look like they're gonna pop. THATS flying.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.
MarkM 0
QuoteQuote... they'll just get bored and go back to RW.
can you really be that bored?
You laugh, but I see this happening with freeflying: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3216082;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
Used to be most everyone went to FF shortly after AFF. Get a couple friends, go out and maybe in a couple hundred jumps you'd be able to pull off a Spock, get it on video and have everyone going gaga over it. Now people are doing VRW, don't bother trying to join until you have 600+ jumps, and in the meantime those old RW dudes over there are inviting you in on a 4 way the day you get your A. I see more RW today on the Florida DZs than I did 4 years ago.
With wingsuiting... we have a real small window for getting people hooked. You gotta have 200 jumps and by that time a lot of people are already forming a clique with whatever discipline they're doing. If you don't bring them in and hook them, they'll get bored and just go back to whatever they were doing before.
mccordia 73
QuoteNow people are doing VRW, don't bother trying to join until you have
600+ jumpsa certain skill level and experience, suitable for that group
I actually think, its the attitude change we are seeing in freefly where people are no longer encouraged to fuck around, do mediocre headdown and other scary shit on 4 to 10 ways with other unskilled flyers, just lauging at eachother from a distance, with the occasional accidental kick in the nuts.
Most people seriously into coaching and instruction in freefly now focus on the individuals in their group having certain skills, before you're allowed to fly with a bunch of other people etc.
And thus, the people who dont want to put the work in, and get their MTV/GoFast lifestyle 10 minute freefly-god speed-course, suddenly get scared away.
As they can not go on that 10 way headdown dive, and they can not go on that slotted trackingdive with the guru's who suddenly demand everyone does things within his/her own skills -envelope on a bigway.
So now we get those people, and they want to be wingsuit gods, and get into proximity flying, and wingsut bigways at barely 200 jumps.
QuoteWith wingsuiting... we have a real small window for getting people hooked. You gotta have 200 jumps and by that time a lot of people are already forming a clique with whatever discipline they're doing. If you don't bring them in and hook them, they'll get bored and just go back to whatever they were doing before.
Actually quite a few serious wingsuit flyers I know (and got hooked on nylon myself) had way more jumps. And it also shows in their wingsuit flying skills.
Its not about bringing big masses to our discipline. Its about making it safer, and offering more education and strict/firm ideas on what one should and shouldn't do at what skill level.
'a bigway is just a 3 way you fly, with a double dozen other people all around you trying to kill you' is a bit overdone, yet sometimes very true phrase I heard one known FF organizer quote. If a person can not keep up with 10 other people, dont let those 10 adjust to that person, but work with him/her untill he/she is up to the specs of the rest of the group.
Compensate by increasing skills, not be decreasing the performance level of others..
And last but not least..
learn there are shades of grey.
Too many people get their panties in a bunch, because they only see the two extremes, and bitch at each other for not agreeing with flying 100% legs out, or 0% with legs fully on their ass.
Its perfectly possible to fly a tight flock, or have fun play at normal flying speeds. Not total balistic breakoff speeds, but also not reverting back to 60 second freefall from 12k.
There's stuff in between the black and white views a lot of people express above here..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
Bones 0
(stands up)
"golf clap"
(sits down)
"golf clap"
(sits down)
kallend 1,619
EXCELLENT post, Lurch.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 1,619
Quote
Its perfectly possible to fly a tight flock, or have fun play at normal flying speeds. Not total balistic breakoff speeds, but also not reverting back to 60 second freefall from 12k.
There's stuff in between the black and white views a lot of people express above here..
Generally speaking, if you want to have a successful bigway, participants should be in the middle of their comfortable speed range. This applies whatever the discipline.
I also note that the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Snowbirds, Red Arrows, Patrouille de France etc. do not fly their formation routines while maxed out.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Guana 0
You said it all Lurch!!....many of us fly for the same reasons as you...nothing to prove....just to enjoy the buzz with others. Perhap they should consider having a different forum here on DZ.com for guys like yuri..."Skygods and Trolls only"...fun jumpers need not post. It's always been a pleasure jumping with you. Play Safe my friend and enjoy the new wingsuit!.
I'm a 100 jump wonder and I consider myself a freeflyer. What you just described sounds magical. I am glad that I have people like you in this sport to look forward to meeting when I get into wing suiting.
Thank you!
Jeff
Thank you!
Jeff
QuoteExactly.
If I only flew with people who could stay with me when I'm flying maxed out, I'd be flying alone. I'm just a skinny critter so thats how it is.
I LOVE flying maxed out. I do it every flock... at breakoff. Ask me if I give a damn about the performance I might not be using on any given flock or the freefall time I'm missing. One of the things I love most about the experience of flying with a whole bunch of birds is seeing their faces lit up in flight. "Look, there's a puffy to surf, LETS GO GET IT!"
It is possible to both be inclusive and elite about it in the same flight with the same friends depending on how much hardcore flying they are ready for. One by one I see our new flyers go from 70 mph bricks to world class birds pulling 2.5+ with ease. We've got a bunch of elite birds around here. If you're an up-and-coming bird, you know you've made it into the elite when you get the invitation: "Hey... at breakoff? Come play."
I guess I just don't understand where the negative attitude comes from and I'm getting annoyed with it. Are we such a bunch of skygods we can't back off the gas pedal a bit to include everyone? If we want to go off work on our leet skillz fly legs out and gloat over how well we fly we can go do a freakin' solo. We're flying with our legs bent so everyone gets to participate. I enjoy a good maxed out flight, whenever theres nobody else around to fly with or I need to get somewhere in a hurry. Some flocks, I've got my armwings almost behind my back so I can keep up. Why on earth would I give someone a hard time about that? Hell, my crowd gives ME a hard time about it...all in good fun. If I start to go skygod my friends will put rocks in my pockets and laugh at my arrogant ass. I can indulge myself all I want at breakoff. Flocking is all about being with the group and making sure as many people as possible get to enjoy flight as much as I do. I couldn't give a damn WHAT the fallrate is when I'm flying with some newb or midrange bird whose face is so lit up about the cloud we're going to surf they look like they're gonna pop. THATS flying.
-B
]Yuri.
Show some fuckin' respect.
-B
+1 Lurch~
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