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yuri_base

American way of "flying"...

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...takes over the (what used to be) beautiful Europe.

http://vimeo.com/7431005

Student-style 90-degree angle of attack, chest-to-airflow exits (great way of setting up poor-glide flight as you have no lift, only drag at 90 degree AoA), bent legs (a syndrome previously attributed only to USA), banana arches...

Man, where's the world going to?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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Really? What a flight flier can do if I fly high speed/high glide?

I could smoke most of the guys/gals but that would not be a flock.

We had a full Vampire formation, 3 Vampires and a camera and some speed runs too.

It was not a distance or speed competition. Anyway everyone was really happy.

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Yuri.
I met you once. You treated me with respect. I appreciated that. I thought you were an ok guy. Since then I've watched you trash talk most of the people events and activities I respect and care about and I have tolerated it in indulgent silence.

Why don't you shut the fuck up?

Those who know me know I'm never this rude to other wingsuit pilots but if you are one at all you do not deserve to be.
I just spent thousands of dollars, tolerated the near certainty of serious health problems from the environment and risked everything to participate in the flocking you attempt to mock. I am prepared to lose my life for the privilege of doing it. One of my friends and flockmates just did.
Got news for ya.
Wingsuiters are an inclusive group. Flocks are often flown with wings half shut down so we can stay with the weaker flyers. We don't just say tough shit, I'm a skygod and I only fly legs out, then take off and abandon our friends in the sky. We fly with wings at less than maximum so we can enjoy the company of and fly with our FRIENDS.

THAT is the "American way of flying."
I would LOVE to see you try to keep up.

We have a real kickass flock up here where I live. If you could outfly the least of us I'd be shocked.
Steve was a dedicated flocker and could have outflown you with one wing behind his back.
I just test flew an S-bird and pulled 3:24 from 13.5 to 3 covering roughly 6 miles. The plane took me 1.5 miles out, I waited till 1.9 miles, exited, flew to twice the distance outbound, turned around on about a 1 mile radius and covered all the distance back to the airport easily. That was with a looping flightpath, multiple turns to avoid a nearby aircraft the pilot had warned me about, an asymmetrical suit fit that forced me to fly with one leg slightly gimped to fly straight in a suit I'd never flown before all working to COST me performance. If I'd flown a straight line path, known all the ninja tricks for flying this suit to its limits and stuck to just flying the suit at the one best glide I could find I could have done much better than THAT. I just won one of these suits in a raffle and I'm beginning to think I might be able to pull 4+ minutes and 7-8 miles from normal altitude with it once I really learn how to fly it and have my own suit instead of a demo.
And you know, one of my prime concerns with choosing exact model and fit of the suit is, can I still fly it in a flock with my brother and sister birds, or is it too much wing?
The people I care about and want to fly with enjoy flocking and come to these forums to exchange information and learn. Some of them have forgotten more about flying than you will ever know.
Your posts in this forum are like having a child show up at a champagne party and start throwing dogshit at the guests.

You do not converse. You gibber.
You have no style. You have no delivery. You come off as a clown but you aren't even funny.
You constantly try to bash the achievements and passions of others and have nothing constructive or useful to offer in exchange.
Get some new material, champ.

Show some fuckin' respect.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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"Show some fuckin' respect.***

Yeah; I expected a better attituded from him on a couple of posts.

I do, however, agree with him on the fact that the video shows people exiting like a non-wingsuit skydive. I always try to put my head into the wind and fly ASAP upon exit.

Is it typically an American thing? I'm not sure, but I took less offense to it than Lurch did.

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You may not like the packaging - but Yuri does have a point.

Imagine Patrick up on his cloud looking down on us all. First off he would be incredibly happy to see how wingsuit flying has grown from a handful of jumpers to thousands!

Look at the flights being performed, 7 minute freefalls, 11 miles+ distance, 3 minute BASE jumps, incredible terrain flying, performance competitions, races and even freestyle.

The suit designs have come on leaps and bounds, the construction, materials, inlets, pressurization and cut away systems.

"and LOOK at the size of the wings on that thing and there are so many of them flying together!

But why are they all flying with their legs bent?"

BASEstore.it

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I do, however, agree with him on the fact that the video shows people exiting like a non-wingsuit skydive. I always try to put my head into the wind and fly ASAP upon exit.



why do you (and Yuri, too) need to criticize people who take a couple seconds to exit without their wings completely spread out?!!
it is the SAFE thing to do.
exiting "like a non-wingsuiter" (i.e. not popping all spread-out right out the door) keeps people ALIVE.
we just lost a friend and wingsuit brother because he started flying TOO SOON upon exit...

you guys can trash the flying style al you want, but leave the exits alone! this is not the kind of advice you want to spread on here.
there is a fine line between a nice flying exit and a too hard pop out the door. there is a horizontal stabilizer on the tail of that plane, and it ain't all that friendly.
encouraging people to fly sooner on exit is some very risky advice!

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***I do, however, agree with him on the fact that the video shows people exiting like a non-wingsuit skydive. I always try to put my head into the wind and fly ASAP upon exit.
Is it typically an American thing? I'm not sure, but I took less offense to it than Lurch did.



You talk about these poised exits that look like static line students exiting? ;)
No, this is not an exclusive American style. Fighting against it here in Europe as well. Many people burn the aircraft's speed on exit just to speed up again after it.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

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Wingsuiters are an inclusive group. Flocks are often flown with wings half shut down so we can stay with the weaker flyers. We don't just say tough shit, I'm a skygod and I only fly legs out, then take off and abandon our friends in the sky. We fly with wings at less than maximum so we can enjoy the company of and fly with our FRIENDS.

THAT is the "American way of flying."



This. Tomorrow's leet flyers are today's 70+ fall rate rocks that can barely hold a slot. Leave them behind to fly on their own and we can watch our discipline wither and die since they'll just get bored and go back to RW.

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Exactly.
If I only flew with people who could stay with me when I'm flying maxed out, I'd be flying alone. I'm just a skinny critter so thats how it is.
I LOVE flying maxed out. I do it every flock... at breakoff. Ask me if I give a damn about the performance I might not be using on any given flock or the freefall time I'm missing. One of the things I love most about the experience of flying with a whole bunch of birds is seeing their faces lit up in flight. "Look, there's a puffy to surf, LETS GO GET IT!"
It is possible to both be inclusive and elite about it in the same flight with the same friends depending on how much hardcore flying they are ready for. One by one I see our new flyers go from 70 mph bricks to world class birds pulling 2.5+ with ease. We've got a bunch of elite birds around here. If you're an up-and-coming bird, you know you've made it into the elite when you get the invitation: "Hey... at breakoff? Come play."
I guess I just don't understand where the negative attitude comes from and I'm getting annoyed with it. Are we such a bunch of skygods we can't back off the gas pedal a bit to include everyone? If we want to go off work on our leet skillz fly legs out and gloat over how well we fly we can go do a freakin' solo. We're flying with our legs bent so everyone gets to participate. I enjoy a good maxed out flight, whenever theres nobody else around to fly with or I need to get somewhere in a hurry. Some flocks, I've got my armwings almost behind my back so I can keep up. Why on earth would I give someone a hard time about that? Hell, my crowd gives ME a hard time about it...all in good fun. If I start to go skygod my friends will put rocks in my pockets and laugh at my arrogant ass. I can indulge myself all I want at breakoff. Flocking is all about being with the group and making sure as many people as possible get to enjoy flight as much as I do. I couldn't give a damn WHAT the fallrate is when I'm flying with some newb or midrange bird whose face is so lit up about the cloud we're going to surf they look like they're gonna pop. THATS flying.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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... they'll just get bored and go back to RW.



can you really be that bored? ;)



You laugh, but I see this happening with freeflying: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3216082;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Used to be most everyone went to FF shortly after AFF. Get a couple friends, go out and maybe in a couple hundred jumps you'd be able to pull off a Spock, get it on video and have everyone going gaga over it. Now people are doing VRW, don't bother trying to join until you have 600+ jumps, and in the meantime those old RW dudes over there are inviting you in on a 4 way the day you get your A. I see more RW today on the Florida DZs than I did 4 years ago.

With wingsuiting... we have a real small window for getting people hooked. You gotta have 200 jumps and by that time a lot of people are already forming a clique with whatever discipline they're doing. If you don't bring them in and hook them, they'll get bored and just go back to whatever they were doing before.

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Now people are doing VRW, don't bother trying to join until you have 600+ jumps a certain skill level and experience, suitable for that group



I actually think, its the attitude change we are seeing in freefly where people are no longer encouraged to fuck around, do mediocre headdown and other scary shit on 4 to 10 ways with other unskilled flyers, just lauging at eachother from a distance, with the occasional accidental kick in the nuts.

Most people seriously into coaching and instruction in freefly now focus on the individuals in their group having certain skills, before you're allowed to fly with a bunch of other people etc.

And thus, the people who dont want to put the work in, and get their MTV/GoFast lifestyle 10 minute freefly-god speed-course, suddenly get scared away.

As they can not go on that 10 way headdown dive, and they can not go on that slotted trackingdive with the guru's who suddenly demand everyone does things within his/her own skills -envelope on a bigway.

So now we get those people, and they want to be wingsuit gods, and get into proximity flying, and wingsut bigways at barely 200 jumps.

Quote

With wingsuiting... we have a real small window for getting people hooked. You gotta have 200 jumps and by that time a lot of people are already forming a clique with whatever discipline they're doing. If you don't bring them in and hook them, they'll get bored and just go back to whatever they were doing before.



Actually quite a few serious wingsuit flyers I know (and got hooked on nylon myself) had way more jumps. And it also shows in their wingsuit flying skills.

Its not about bringing big masses to our discipline. Its about making it safer, and offering more education and strict/firm ideas on what one should and shouldn't do at what skill level.

'a bigway is just a 3 way you fly, with a double dozen other people all around you trying to kill you' is a bit overdone, yet sometimes very true phrase I heard one known FF organizer quote. If a person can not keep up with 10 other people, dont let those 10 adjust to that person, but work with him/her untill he/she is up to the specs of the rest of the group.

Compensate by increasing skills, not be decreasing the performance level of others..

And last but not least..

learn there are shades of grey.
Too many people get their panties in a bunch, because they only see the two extremes, and bitch at each other for not agreeing with flying 100% legs out, or 0% with legs fully on their ass.

Its perfectly possible to fly a tight flock, or have fun play at normal flying speeds. Not total balistic breakoff speeds, but also not reverting back to 60 second freefall from 12k.

There's stuff in between the black and white views a lot of people express above here..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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Its perfectly possible to fly a tight flock, or have fun play at normal flying speeds. Not total balistic breakoff speeds, but also not reverting back to 60 second freefall from 12k.

There's stuff in between the black and white views a lot of people express above here..



Generally speaking, if you want to have a successful bigway, participants should be in the middle of their comfortable speed range. This applies whatever the discipline.

I also note that the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Snowbirds, Red Arrows, Patrouille de France etc. do not fly their formation routines while maxed out.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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You said it all Lurch!!....many of us fly for the same reasons as you...nothing to prove....just to enjoy the buzz with others. Perhap they should consider having a different forum here on DZ.com for guys like yuri..."Skygods and Trolls only"...fun jumpers need not post. It's always been a pleasure jumping with you. Play Safe my friend and enjoy the new wingsuit!.

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I'm a 100 jump wonder and I consider myself a freeflyer. What you just described sounds magical. I am glad that I have people like you in this sport to look forward to meeting when I get into wing suiting.

Thank you!
Jeff

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Exactly.
If I only flew with people who could stay with me when I'm flying maxed out, I'd be flying alone. I'm just a skinny critter so thats how it is.
I LOVE flying maxed out. I do it every flock... at breakoff. Ask me if I give a damn about the performance I might not be using on any given flock or the freefall time I'm missing. One of the things I love most about the experience of flying with a whole bunch of birds is seeing their faces lit up in flight. "Look, there's a puffy to surf, LETS GO GET IT!"
It is possible to both be inclusive and elite about it in the same flight with the same friends depending on how much hardcore flying they are ready for. One by one I see our new flyers go from 70 mph bricks to world class birds pulling 2.5+ with ease. We've got a bunch of elite birds around here. If you're an up-and-coming bird, you know you've made it into the elite when you get the invitation: "Hey... at breakoff? Come play."
I guess I just don't understand where the negative attitude comes from and I'm getting annoyed with it. Are we such a bunch of skygods we can't back off the gas pedal a bit to include everyone? If we want to go off work on our leet skillz fly legs out and gloat over how well we fly we can go do a freakin' solo. We're flying with our legs bent so everyone gets to participate. I enjoy a good maxed out flight, whenever theres nobody else around to fly with or I need to get somewhere in a hurry. Some flocks, I've got my armwings almost behind my back so I can keep up. Why on earth would I give someone a hard time about that? Hell, my crowd gives ME a hard time about it...all in good fun. If I start to go skygod my friends will put rocks in my pockets and laugh at my arrogant ass. I can indulge myself all I want at breakoff. Flocking is all about being with the group and making sure as many people as possible get to enjoy flight as much as I do. I couldn't give a damn WHAT the fallrate is when I'm flying with some newb or midrange bird whose face is so lit up about the cloud we're going to surf they look like they're gonna pop. THATS flying.
-B

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