mccordia 73 #76 November 9, 2009 QuoteAs the formation size gets larger the "grid" becomes more and more difficult to fly. But at the same time easier. A 6 way flown with a 1 meter spacing needs to be quite tight. If we fly it with a 400 km spacing, all we have to do is exit at the same time, and ask the NASA people to have Hubble take a snapshot. And all of us will have about 454 km of space to move around, and still be concidered 'in slot'. Even though it will be harder to react to the base (which we dont see). The margin becomes bigger, as the set distance grows.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #77 November 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteAs the formation size gets larger the "grid" becomes more and more difficult to fly. But at the same time easier. A 6 way flown with a 1 meter spacing needs to be quite tight. If we fly it with a 400 km spacing, all we have to do is exit at the same time, and ask the NASA people to have Hubble take a snapshot. And all of us will have about 454 km of space to move around, and still be concidered 'in slot'. Even though it will be harder to react to the base (which we dont see). The margin becomes bigger, as the set distance grows. Your analysis is flawed too, because all you are considering is short range order. The angular accuracy required is independent of grid spacing - in math terms the angular and spatial lattice parameters are independent.. Besides, I doubt your vision is good enough to see the next guy in his box 400km away, let alone your depth perception. Would be OK for a 4, but nothing bigger.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #78 November 10, 2009 we should really discuss this in [url=http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3616314;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=63512319]this thread[/url] QuoteBesides, I doubt your vision is good enough to see the next guy in his box 400km away, let alone your depth perception. Would be OK for a 4, but nothing bigger. who needs a visual reference when you have gps. there's no rule about needing to see the person. our points remain valid. I do see what you are saying about angular accuracy short or long. There's still a larger variance from the person you may be flying off of given a larger and wider grid and spacing. Angular range widens from the true base the further one is from it. again tolerance allowed is just too large. last I checked the 'approved' method is a 2d square/diamond with a 13.5% buffer zone on each side which effectively increases your allowed 'in' space by 62%. why are you discussing something it is not, but could potentially be with tweaking?. It's also not a 3d lattice as height isn't taken into account. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #79 November 10, 2009 Quotewe should really discuss this in [url=http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3616314;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=63512319]this thread[/url] QuoteBesides, I doubt your vision is good enough to see the next guy in his box 400km away, let alone your depth perception. Would be OK for a 4, but nothing bigger. who needs a visual reference when you have gps. there's no rule about needing to see the person. our points remain valid. I do see what you are saying about angular accuracy short or long. There's still a larger variance from the person you may be flying off of given a larger and wider grid and spacing. Angular range widens from the true base the further one is from it. again tolerance allowed is just too large. last I checked the 'approved' method is a 2d square/diamond with a 13.5% buffer zone on each side which effectively increases your allowed 'in' space by 62%. why are you discussing something it is not, but could potentially be with tweaking?. It's also not a 3d lattice as height isn't taken into account. Lattice parameters apply to plane (2-D) lattices as well as to space(3-D) lattices. To all those who carp and bellyache about the USPA system, tough! You could have taken the initiative and proposed your pet scheme instead of leaving it to someone else. And if you think flying a 45 degree line +- 3 degrees does not indicate talent - try it for yourself and report back.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #80 November 10, 2009 QuoteTo all those who carp and bellyache about the USPA system, tough! You could have taken the initiative and proposed your pet scheme instead of leaving it to someone else. if you only knew the whole story and history... I also prefer not to push a poor judging system down the communities throat and go with something that shows better testing, thought, and a has a backing of a fair portion of the community. Quote And if you think flying a 45 degree line +- 3 degrees does not indicate talent - try it for yourself and report back. you speak big for only dusting off your suit for the summerfest's and now the bigway09. I've done it, along with things you can't do..Jarno too... now can we get back to talking about the grid, because 45 degree line +- 3 degrees (from whatever point you think) this isn't it. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #81 November 10, 2009 QuoteI've done it, along with things you can't do..Jarno too... now can we get back to talking about the grid, because 45 degree line +- 3 degrees (from whatever point you think) this isn't it. Yes, he has. That was 2.5 years ago. Where did you get that 3 degree number from, kallend? The average lines of a formation must be very close to 45 degrees to fit the grid, but a single flyer can be far more than 3 degrees off the line to his next forward partner, and still fit the grid.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #82 November 10, 2009 QuoteQuoteI've done it, along with things you can't do..Jarno too... now can we get back to talking about the grid, because 45 degree line +- 3 degrees (from whatever point you think) this isn't it. Yes, he has. That was 2.5 years ago. Where did you get that 3 degree number from, kallend? The average lines of a formation must be very close to 45 degrees to fit the grid, but a single flyer can be far more than 3 degrees off the line to his next forward partner, and still fit the grid. If a line of 10 square boxes is off the 45 degree line by more than about 3 degrees. then the ends can't both be in their boxes at the same time. (Nice formation,but lining up three in a row is not the same as lining up 10 in a row, and the actual angle cannot be determined from that picture)..... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #83 November 10, 2009 3deg is not accurate and does vary by grid size and position. short order or long order. If it sounds cool to all your friends than more power to you. if you want to show i'm wrong than do so. Also if you want to argue about something the gird not right now, then you will be a lone man in the room going fwd. in the sample below the X's are the same size, the grid is not. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #84 November 10, 2009 Quote3deg is not accurate and does vary by grid size and position. short order or long order. If it sounds cool to all your friends than more power to you. if you want to show i'm wrong than do so. Also if you want to argue about something the gird not right now, then you will be a lone man in the room going fwd. in the sample below the X's are the same size, the grid is not. I didn't claim it varied by grid size. I claimed it varied by number of grid squares, AS YOUR PICTURE CLEARLY SHOWS. The more grid squares in a row you have, the more accurate the angle needs to be flown to keep everyone in their box. Simple geometry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #85 November 10, 2009 Quote you speak big for only dusting off your suit for the summerfest's and now the bigway09. It is not clear to me how ability to evaluate a judging protocol depends on which events one attends. Let me be quite clear - I wouldn't have designed the existing grid method (I suggested something quite different a while back). However, I didn't get off my ass and take my idea to USPA, while some others did take their idea to the board and got it approved. Kudos to them for initiative and hard work. And that's the way it goes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #86 January 15, 2010 The event video is now posted at www.raisethesky.org... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
