Incident at MOAB

[brianfry713 0]

I know everyone is waiting to see the video. I've got Charley's camera and could post it, but it's not my footage, and I'm not the subject. Charley, let me know when/where you want to pick it up.

[sdctlc 0]

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Scott, go ahead and post a couple pics. I definitely have been having fun freaking out all my friends.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[mnskydiver688 0]

Maybe the suits should have a Surgeon General's warning.

Surgeon General Warning: Use of this product may cause reddening of the eyes and face. Also, may cause involuntarily loss of bodily control, which may result in extreme increases in humbleness.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Perhaps youll never know until you get there.

I fly a Stealth. I've got some funny, spinning exit lately. Everything went back to normal after arching hard.

[hjumper33 0]

I give permission for anyone who has it to post it as I am leaving for boston in a few days and probably wont be able to pick it up for a while, just not to sell it to anyone else, and not to put up anything else on my camera... hey she looked 18.

[brianfry713 0]

See if this works, I can't watch video at work. Here's Charley's video of Matt's flatspin at the M.O.A.B. last weekend:
http://vimeo.com/6834669

Good job staying alive Matt.

[BenediktDE 2]

"This is a private video"
Please allow public access.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[brianfry713 0]

I just made it public, try again.

[mccordia 73]

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"This is a private video"
Please allow public access.

Its publicly accesable...I think its one of those German-blockers...Costyn is installing one on FLB soon as well from what I heard..

Its hard to see in the video, but it almost looks like backflips instead of the 'usual' spins around the center axis lying flat on the back...

If so, it seems the lower leg being bent up/back keeps feeding/increasing the spin. But its hard to see this small (and on a laptop thats just not quick enough to play the video at the proper playback speed without stuttering...)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[tr027 0]

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For those of you who dont believe in the flat spin, I will post a link to video soon.

Thanks for the video, and yes I still don't believe in the flat spin. Looks just like multiple half-hearted recovery attempts with legwing fully inflated at all times. He got his knees up, but didn't use his arms to bring them in the rest of the way.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[hjumper33 0]

I think thats kind of the point of this, he couldnt bring up his leg wing because of the combo of fast spin g force and the pressurization of the leg wing itself. The part that isnt on film, of course, just shows the spin getting nastier and nastier.

[magol 0]

That video definitely makes me dizzy all over again. After watching this video again, it looks like I tried to arch out of the spin at the beginning and then resorted to several brief attempts at balling up which actually caused me to spin faster- then hard arching out of it. Each time I tried to ball up I remember It was harder to shut down my legs. Maybe a fully commited grabbing my knees and pulling them to my chest (as you guys have stated) at the first moments in a fast spin, and holding that position for 5+seconds until the spin stops on its own would be the answer. I know for a fact that it is very hard to shutdown my legwing in a spinning situation, but causing that spin to continue to the point I did, made it virtually impossible for me to shut it down.
I've never been in a situation like this spin that I couldn't get out of, and it dumbfounds me that I let it get out of hand. Hopefully some good comes out of this video. I know I've learned some good tips from everyone.

NEVER GIVE UP!!!

[The111 0]

I count at least 4-5 seconds at the beginning where the spin is still relatively slow (compared to how fast it gets later on) and see no serious "ballup" position, just a couple cases where the legs are bent slightly. Certainly nothing like this:

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I then balled up and tried to get out of it as I have in the past, but I just kept gaining speed and kept spinning faster and faster. I was able to get out of my armwings, but by the time I was out of them, the force on my body was so intense

Now, if this suit is indeed so pressurized that you physically can't ballup (not what the OP said, but I know somebody will suggest it) even at a low "tumble speed," then I wouldn't fly one. But I'd wager it is very possible to ballup in that suit, and challenge somebody to get a photo of themselves balled up tightly just to prove it.
Scary video, regardless.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[magol 0]

I agree, after watching the video, that this was definitely a spin that could have ben stopped. But as I stated, I made it worse, it was ME. What you can't see on the video is the spin speeding up honestly to the point that I couldn't even reach my pilot chute(no bullshit), yet alone bring my knees in and nearly passing out. I fought for it for nearly 30 seconds.
Learn from my dumbass and get out of that shit fast and don't speed it up to the point you nearly pass out.

XOXOXO

[The111 0]

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What you can't see on the video is the spin speeding up honestly to the point that I couldn't even reach my pilot chute(no bullshit), yet alone bring my knees in and nearly passing out.

I believe it. That's scary. I think, for the same reason curling to fetal is a "stronger" move than squeezing legs together... as far as the arms are concerned, "curling" to reserve handle is probably a "stronger" move than pinching back for BOC. The goal is to never get in a situation like that... but if you have to fight a massive force with your arms, there is one way they are going to be much stronger to move in.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[LouDiamond 1]

Having seen the video I can now comment and say what I've said in the past (not to beat a way dead horse anymore) and that is your first course of action when you come to that split second realization that you are in a flat spin and or out of control is you should ball up into the fetal recovery position immediately. As seen in this and previous serious flat spins, failure to do so only allows the spin to gain momentum to the point where G forces prevent the person from taking corrective actions just as Matt just described. I can't see anywhere in the video where Matt actually fully balled up. It appears he tried to bring his knees in initially but gave up and resorted to trying to fight it. What also concerns me is the delay in the reserve deployment.

I am sure Matt doesn't require any further proof as to how serious things get in a short span of time and for the need to ball up immediately instead of trying to arch out of it. One never expects or knows when it's going to be a bad one so why waste time trying something that might work when you know what will work. Be safe not sorry.


Matt, glad you are OK. When you pulled your reserve where you still on your back and spinning?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[notsane 0]

Thanks for posting the video.

It leads me to make an observation ... I can't remember seeing someone spinning out of control on their belly, the person is always on their back. If out of control spins are more likely on your back, and folks are going to jump suits with such highly pressurized leg-wings that can't be collapsed ... wouldn't it be a good idea to limit the size of the back vents? If you want super stiff pressurization, you'd still have it on your belly, but the back flying would be with a more reasonable pressurization.

I've jumped a lot of large wing suits and too much pressurization always gives me the willies at pull time. Even in my Raptor I have the vent zippers half open.

Just a thought.

[lurch 0]

Wow. Thats a spin alright.
You know, I think it sucks he got in such deep trouble.
I think it sucks how close this could have been to being a major incident.
And I think it sucks he had to go to reserve to get out of it. And I'm really glad his reserve got him out of it.
But you know,
My inner teenager is thinking, "I'll bet that must have been one HELL of a ride! Whoa!"
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[magol 0]

I can't believe I'm on vacation and still looking at this damn incidentBed Time,
White sandy beaches and Bio Flouorescent waters await.......

[phoenixlpr 0]

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It leads me to make an observation ... I can't remember seeing someone spinning out of control on their belly, the person is always on their back. If out of control spins are more likely on your back,

Think! Why? Because arm wings are open too.... How about closing them? Eh, are you going to go head down? So what? at least not spinning anymore.

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and folks are going to jump suits with such highly pressurized leg-wings that can't be collapsed ... wouldn't it be a good idea to limit the size of the back vents? If you want super stiff pressurization, you'd still have it on your belly, but the back flying would be with a more reasonable pressurization.

I really don't think it would be a pressurization problem.
2 things feed the back spin: leg wing gives the rotation and arm wings keep it on level. You can easily kill one of them.

[fasted3 0]

Dead air in a burble is one thing, but I hit one close up like you did and it felt like getting sucked down a hole. It was damn hard to get out of. Scary video - I'm glad you made it.

But what do I know?

[DSE 3]

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2 things feed the back spin: leg wing gives the rotation and arm wings keep it on level. You can easily kill one of them.

Unzipping arms isn't the way to accomplish this.

[Butters 0]

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It leads me to make an observation ... I can't remember seeing someone spinning out of control on their belly, the person is always on their back. If out of control spins are more likely on your back, and folks are going to jump suits with such highly pressurized leg-wings that can't be collapsed ... wouldn't it be a good idea to limit the size of the back vents?

Wouldn't it be a better idea for folks to learn to backfly in smaller suits before jumping a larger suit?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mccordia 73]

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Wouldn't it be a better idea for folks to learn to backfly in smaller suits before jumping a larger suit?

I think thats a whole different subject, where many people would benefit from taking off the big suits, and learning to fly a smaller suit at 90% in flocks and playtime jumps, instead of lazy relaxing in a huge suit flown at 50%.

If people are shooting away from a formation like deploying canopies, it doesnt mean they rock, it means the formations sucks

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

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Wouldn't it be a better idea for folks to learn to backfly in smaller suits before jumping a larger suit?

I think thats a whole different subject ...

I don't think it's a whole different subject. After all, if folks learn to backfly than they'll be more likely to outfly these occurrences before they become incidents ... or am I wrong?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch