Tandem flyby, how to get right timing?

[phoenixlpr 0]

Tandem fly by, how to get right timing?

Because of the difference in free fall delay I've found a bit difficult to get the right place in right time. Do you have a good plan for the tandem fly by?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Read my post in the other thread

[diablopilot 2]

This shows that you pretty much shouldn't be trying this.

Go experiment with an non student jump.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[hjumper33 0]

If it is a planned flyby to the extent that its the only thing im doing on the jump, I usually do a wide circle around the tandem until I see canopy. It then takes about 30 seconds to actually get down to them. I dont really have a good reason, but I always come from behind on the right. I usually err on the side of being too high, then flatten it out to a nice glide as I near the tandem. Flying close to a cliff is good practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKkQXcKmJbQ

edit before chuck yells at me: This is much closer than a typical flyby and was done with one of my best buddies as the tandem master and my girlfriend as the passenger. Probably my 50th or so flyby. Not condoning, but I felt confident doing it, as did everyone involved.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I just had a good e-mail conversation with my regional director today about this exact subject. Oddly, I had NO idea that some wingsuiter had successfully flown himself right into the suspension lines of a tandem pair out on the West coast.

Listen, I definitely DO NOT condone tandem fly-bys unless they are practiced under the strictest of terms. In other words, I would have to consider them "stunts" only to be performed by the most-qualified wingsuiters and the most-willing tandem instructors(who also happen to fly wingsuits).

The point was made to me in this last e-mail that it is only a matter of time before a triple fatality occurs because of some wannabe cool guy, inexperienced wingsuiter flying into a tandem pair. That will fuck everyone of us in ways which most of you tourist skydivers will never understand.

If you want to show off and get close to things, then boogie off to Kjerag or the swiss valley and show Robi and the other rulers of the rock what you have. Do not, under any circumstances, endanger the lives of a tandem pair in your efforts to "be cool".

Another thing: Just like in tandem jumping RW rules, you are not permitted to do RW or dock on a tandem unless you possess the same rating at the TM (or higher). If you possess no ratings whatsoever then you have NO business getting anywhere near a tandem pair. Even then, with those equal qualifications, you must still work these stunts out to the enth degree.

Don't be that prick that kills a tandem passenger.

Chuck Blue
AFFI, TMI, SLI, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4

[tr027 0]

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This shows that you pretty much shouldn't be trying this.

Go experiment with an non student jump.

+1

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[mccordia 73]

I think the biggest issue with flyby's is that most people are actually talking about a dive-by. Speeding like a bullet, at a 45 degree angle (or steeper) past a tandem/parachute, instead of full (and controlled) flight. Giving much less (if any) reaction time at all to sudden changes in the canopies flight direction. And also really not using the wingsuit to fly (slower fall, better glide) but only as a means of aiming.

And for some reason, everyone sees a tandem as the ideal practice object, while tiny/fast moving canopies (due to the lesser difference in speed) are a much more ideal object to fly past. And you'll be amazed at how many pocket-rocket (free)flyers would be more than happy to function as your target/video platform on jumps like that.

On a side-note, chuck, how did that tandem/wingsuit collision end up? Nobody hurt? As I would gues, someone with severe cuts/burns (due to lines) and/or a cutaway on the tandempair if anything snapped?
Or wasnt the speed difference that high, and it just ended with a scare and some drinks held with trembling hands?

As to flyby's in general.
If you cant fly a slot in a formation (for a full jump), staying relative to an object moving at the same speed within one meter, then dont try and fly past (relative) to an object thats practicaly stationairy while you're flying at it with insano-speed.

(Much like sex) reading articles and watching videos on the internet only teaches you wingsuit flying theory. The actual practice is up to you. And only jumping, jumping, jumping and jumping some more will make you get better, and slowly be able to venture more outside of the normal flying and intro the 'stunt' arena.

And when you are there, again, a high perf. canopy makes for a much better practice target

Some general notes:

Never fly at another angle/direction than the canopy. You dont want a canopy flying into your airspace during your approach, or flying head-on, passing eachother at insano-speeds.

Treat it like a swoop, do a proper setup. Judge the distance. And find a controlled and repeatable trajectory. Dont just 'wing it'. Think about it, and plan!

when you come up short (or too high!), abort. And dont make it do-or-die passes, speeding past at close to vertical/freefall speeds.

Mind your distance. Skill and accuracy builds up over hundreds of jumps. Stupidity can end your (and your buddies) jumping career in only one.

Have at least 100 or more wingsuit jumps before even attempting getting close (<200 meters) to a canopy.

If you wouldnt want someone else with your skill level near a parachute with someone you like and love, than its probably not a good idea for you to be there now. Even though you might not know the person all that well.

FLY your Flyby. Dont freefall. And also, dont 'hug' the air soo much you stall. Keep flying the suit, nice, far and flat/open.

Visualise and fly a predictably patern. No sudden turns/angles/dives. If a canopy spots you, your (planned) path must be one they understand. And not seeing some irratic spastic object flailing their way, scaring them to death.

practice your flying, before doing stupid stuff and...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mccordia 73]

And as a side-note.

A nice, slow, full-flight flyby at 100/200 or more meters away (in front of the canopy, in clear view, without any collision or proximity dangers) is often a much coolers sight to see for the canopy-flyer, than someone whipping past at 1 meter distance in a quarter second.

Picking such safer/further distances also frees you up a lot more in how well timed/on level and slow/fast your setup and flyby need to be.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

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And for some reason, everyone sees a tandem as the ideal practice object, while tiny/fast moving canopies (due to the lesser difference in speed) are a much more ideal object to fly past. And you'll be amazed at how many pocket-rocket (free)flyers would be more than happy to function as your target/video platform on jumps like that.

I doubt that there are any "pock-rocket" flyers that would want to be our target/video platform. I think it's more fullfilling as a wingsuiter to be flying with a canopy than flying by a canopy.

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A nice, slow, full-flight flyby at 100/200 or more meters away (in front of the canopy, in clear view, without any collision or proximity dangers) is often a much coolers sight to see for the canopy-flyer, than someone whipping past at 1 meter distance in a quarter second.

I agree. A lot of reward for no risk. Then again, I'm just a tourist who agrees with ...

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"That will fuck everyone of us in ways which most of you tourist skydivers will never understand.
...
Don't be that prick that kills a tandem passenger." Chuck Blue

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[bodypilot1 0]

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I had NO idea that some wingsuiter had successfully flown himself right into the suspension lines of a tandem pair out on the West coast.

Wow, when did this happen, and why wasn't it posted on somewhere? People brake finger nails and post about it, but not this?

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

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I just had a good e-mail conversation with my regional director today about this exact subject. Oddly, I had NO idea that some wingsuiter had successfully flown himself right into the suspension lines of a tandem pair out on the West coast.

So let me get this straight, your regional director personally flew a wingsuit into canopy lines while visiting the west coast?

[VectorBoy 0]

Wow, when did this happen, and why wasn't it posted on somewhere? People brake finger nails and post about it, but not this?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

No, Glen. My regional director was in a meeting at this BOD and was told of an incident on the west coast where a wingsuiter in freefall clipped a tandem pair under canopy. I don't have any more information than that. It was the first I had ever heard of such a thing. It surprised me that such an event hadn't even been leaked to me or anyone I am in close contact with. Perhaps it simply never happened, but then why would it have been brought up at the BOD?

Chuck

[DualHawk 0]

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So let me get this straight, your regional director personally flew a wingsuit into canopy lines while visiting the west coast?

While at the Summer BOD meeting in Dallas this past weekend, I was informed that there was a tandem flyby incident where a wingsuiter made contact with a tandem pair under canopy, thankfully no one was hurt from what i was told. I shared this information with Chuck in an email exchange where we were discussing wingsuit flybys. As to why it was or was not posted here on dropzone.com, I can't answer that one.

I don't speak for USPA (only the President and Executive Director can do that), but my personal opinion, as a USPA Tandem I/E, AFF I, Coach and S&TA at Large, I am 100% against the practice of tandem flybys made by wingsuits. From a manufacturer perspective, I can also state clearly that Strong Enterprises does not condone it either.

In the conclusion of my email to Chuck, I stated that when a wingsuiter does finally strike and kill a tandem pair, and it will happen eventually if the practice continues, that it will in all likelyhood end skydiving as we know it in the US. The FAA allows us to Self-Police, take out three people, including an innocent tandem student that cannot possibly fathom the risk, and see what self-policing is left after the dust settles.

Tom Noonan

[Butters 0]

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In the conclusion of my email to Chuck, I stated that when a wingsuiter does finally strike and kill a tandem pair, and it will happen eventually if the practice continues, that it will in all likelyhood end skydiving as we know it in the US.

It won't end skydiving. It will end wingsuiting ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DualHawk 0]

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It won't end skydiving. It will end wingsuiting ...

To be clear, you are incorrect, I didn't say it would end skydiving, I said that it would end skydiving "as we know it" in the US, that it would drastically change the self policing freedoms that we are entrusted with today, and the effect will go BEYOND just wingsuiting, that is one of the central points to take away from this, it will affect all of us.

Tom Noonan

[Butters 0]

Quote

Quote

It won't end skydiving. It will end wingsuiting ...

To be clear, you are incorrect, I didn't say it would end skydiving, I said that it would end skydiving "as we know it" in the US, that it would drastically change the self policing freedoms that we are entrusted with today, and the effect will go BEYOND just wingsuiting, that is one of the central points to take away from this, it will affect all of us.

Tom Noonan

My point was that the consequences will fall largely (if not solely) on wingsuiters since tandems are the bread and butter ...

Edit: Maybe I'm wrong ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

"Eye opening" to say the least!

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

While at the Summer BOD meeting in Dallas this past weekend, I was informed that there was a tandem flyby incident where a wingsuiter made contact with a tandem pair under canopy, thankfully no one was hurt from what i was told. I shared this information with Chuck in an email exchange where we were discussing wingsuit flybys. As to why it was or was not posted here on dropzone.com, I can't answer that one.

Made contact with a tandem pair? Suspension lines, canopy fabric, person to person? News like this would travel very fast locally even off these forums simply by word of mouth. I'm sure all wingsuiters would be sternly briefed by manifests.

So you are saying this has already happened, although no injuries and that it happened on the west coast? Would that be north, mid or socal region? Can you elaborate? This info would be very worthy of posting in the incedents section.

[bodypilot1 0]

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While at the Summer BOD meeting in Dallas this past weekend, I was informed that there was a tandem flyby incident where a wingsuiter made contact with a tandem pair under canopy,

Hello

Please post the name of this Regional Director, as I and a few others would like to have a more informed briefing on what exactly happened.

Thanks
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[DualHawk 0]

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Please post the name of this Regional Director, as I and a few others would like to have a more informed briefing on what exactly happened.

His name is Tom Noonan, SE Region.

I don't have any more information than what I have already conveyed to Chuck, which he conveyed here.

I made a comment at the BOD Safety and Training meeting during a break that it is "only a matter of time" before a collision occured and I was informed that it actually just had.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who I was speaking with but at the same time, it's not my place to name them or demand of them, or anyone, anymore details in this public realm. If and when anyone involved or "in the know" wants to respond, I'm sure they will. If they choose not too, that's their prerogative as well.

Tom Noonan

[pierre3636 0]

good god that doesnt sound very good...

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[phoenixlpr 0]

Thanks a lot for your constructive and helpful answer!

[mccordia 73]

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs133.snc1/5720_135449235448_550660448_3367610_6852282_n.jpg

Wingsuits outdone by a bunch of freeflyers/trackers...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[za_skydiver 0]

I do this regularly on solo wingsuit jumps. full flight fly bys at no closer than 100 meters. I always ask the TM if its ok, and which side ill by flying past them so they can keep an eye out and point it out to the passenger, keeping in mind which way they are flying, especially if they not flying straight to the landing area. The TM's passengers love it.

Some dream of flying, i live the dream...