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QuoteQuote*People not clearing the bridle properly or using too short of a bridle and causing friction burns/damage on the canopy.
when an extension is used, then that should be no more of an issue as burns resulting from putting it in the bag in a conventional way.
There in lies one of the problems, you need an extension(some not all) and most don't add an extension, they just go with what they have and think that yanking it out far enough is good enough until they damage their canopy.
Quote* People in a hurry to get on the next load forgetting to remove the intentional twist out of the lines and or adding an additional twist (2 twists) by rotating it the wrong way. (I've seen it happen in person)
I don't see how a person would put in 2 twists. Even if someone rotates the bag the wrong way, it would result in 1 twist. I quickly go used to it, and rotating it the wrong direction is not something I think I could ever do
. Even though I think I will not ever do it, 1 twist should be no big deal. As I stated, I watched someone do it and had to tell them to go back and look at what they had done. Like you, they swore they could never make that mistake as they had been psycho packing a long time.
Quote* Bigger canopies (200 and up) are harder to handle neatly which are typically used by students/newbies who end up doing the 2 issues mentioned above and or end up with a football packjob.
I don't understand this comment, as the larger canopies being harder to handle is a big part of why the psycho pack is a benefit. A football or whatever mess type of material distribution you want to call it is I think more likely when it is harder to get in the bag.
It's about canopy/material management. Unless you pack large canopies a lot, most people cannot manage a canopy neatly as is depicted in the link above showing how to psycho pack. This is compounded by them usually being students/newbies who have limited packing skills. Being able to pack a canopy that touches the floor while it is on your shoulder, rotate it 180 degrees and then lift all of the material off of your shoulder and place it on the floor in a controlled manner as depicted in the link, requires a bit more skill and technique than most students/newbies have, even some experienced jumpers. This is also a problem for some people who PRO pack as well as they end up throwing their canopy down on the floor instead of placing it down.
Quote* It requires a bit more technique to get good at it.
I really don't understand this comment. I realize that many people make it look so easy to get a canopy in the bag in a conventional manner, but speaking as a veteran jumper, but new to ZP, I tried and tried to copy what I saw in person and in packing videos showing all the tricks, but it definitely was not easy to pick up the technique. The differences needed to use the psycho method were extremely simple for this old dog to learn.
In my experience, most people who psycho pack do it because they have a hard time with ZP material, especially when it is new. I've watched people struggle with a psycho packjob as much as they struggle with a pro pack when new at it but those who learn how to PRO pack seem to get it down quicker than those who try psycho packing, just my experience. It is also less forgiving of errors (line twist, clearing the bridle) in packing.
I'm not saying psycho packing is evil, it works for some people. I watched Chris Martin Psycho pack everything he jumped for years as well as show others how to do it. But I have also seen people royally screw it up and damage their gear. It's six in one hand, half a dozen in the other, do what works best for you.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
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Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING
riggerrob 558
QuoteQuote" ...
Flat packing is a very general term, that can be used to mean a "roll" pack technique (generally very much out of favor now, but it did work), or something that is actually very much like what is used by many to pack reserves, and is much like a pro pack except done a different way - that used to be called a "factory pack". Without packing tabs, and with ZP fabric, it is much more difficult compared to pro packing.
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I used to roll-pack my Strato-Cloud and first-generation Strong Tandem mains, but the only canopies I still "roll pack" are Strong Tandem reserves. You have to "roll pack" Strong Tandem reserves to hide the nose, delay cell inflation and soften the openings. If you have ever opened a tandem reserve at "tandem terminal you will understand why!
I also used to roll (some called it "flop") pack everything, then adapted the "factory pack" technique to do what a pro pack does.
Very interesting about roll packing the reserve. Do you just roll/flop the nose half toward the middle, or do you also roll/flop the tail in the same way. It always seemed like a bad idea to flop the tail, and I would limit the "flops" to the nose and tail by S-folding it instead of just flopping. Not sure I'd like a reserve to be flopped toward the middle a bunch that way.
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To my mind, roll-pack is a variation on flat-pack, except that you roll the nose and tail towards the center. The primary advantage of roll-packing is that it hides the nose openings for an extra second, delaying cell inflation.
Strong Tandem reserves are packed with a method that mixes factory-pack and flop-pack.
Since Strong's method hides the nose openings, I sometimes refer to it as a "roll-pack).
Strong Tandem reserves are flaked on their left side, then the nose is folded back (on top) onto the A lines. Then the nose is folded a second time, so that the A lines lay on top of the B lines.
The rest of the (C, D and steering) are S-flaked similar to an old-style factory-pack.
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I think BASE jumpers flat pack...
I've never seen a BASE jumper flat pack. Most start our PRO pack standing and re-dress the initial folds on the ground although I've seen a couple people start with their canopy on the ground like a flat pack. Most ram-air reserves are packed the same way.
When a base jumper is observed "flat" packing most of the time they are actually "stack" packing because as previously mentioned in a couple other posts the canopy is still flaked symmetrically like a pro pack just on the ground while stacking the flakes on each other. Personally I prefer to start on the ground. It gives me more control throughout the entire packjob and I dont have to redress anything.
Fiend
I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.
I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.
RufusW 0
This is the video saw of what I thought was a flat-pack by a BASE jumper. But it sounds like 'flat' doesn't just mean it's on the ground, but also the actual way it's put together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=medttl2zc9E
But what this thread has taught me is there's a lot more than I thought to look at with regards to packing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=medttl2zc9E
But what this thread has taught me is there's a lot more than I thought to look at with regards to packing.
pchapman 261
QuoteBut it sounds like 'flat' doesn't just mean it's on the ground, but also the actual way it's put together.
Yes!!
Propacks start over the shoulder and end up on the ground in a narrow pile.
Flatpacks start on the ground, canopy laying spread out on its side, and end up on the ground in a narrow pile.
They look very much the same at that point, although the internal folding is different.
BASE packs are pro-packs, reserves are usually propacks, indeed most canopies are propacked these days. But flat packing is a tool that is still handy for things like large F-111 canopies.
A standing PRO pack makes it easy to roll the tail to slow things down a bit because the two halves of the tail come together facing the jumper instead of being buried under the pile in a flat pack.
I've never seen a BASE jumper flat pack. Most start our PRO pack standing and re-dress the initial folds on the ground although I've seen a couple people start with their canopy on the ground like a flat pack. Most ram-air reserves are packed the same way.
The difference between flat and PRO packs is that the flat pack folds the fabric between line groups of both sides together while the PRO (Proper Ram air Orientation) does them as mirror images of each other.
The psycho pack/Precision pack (as in the company)/bat pack (as in the Batwing) is a PRO pack with the resulting stack rolled instead of S-folded with a half twist and un-twist as part of the process so it's easier to roll with the nose on the inside.
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