how much experience to fly a mach 1 ?

[mrbiceps 0]

so im looking for my first wingsuit. i have only 80 jumps thus far so i still have maybe 12 months before i hit the 200 jumps and can wing for the first time. i have found a guy selling a good condition mach 1 for $500, less than 9 months old. i understand that this would not be a good first suit to try but how many wingsuit jumps would the average flyer need before he should get into a mach one. i figure that i could hire something like a phantom to learn on and then jump the mach one. thanks for your help people.

[mnskydiver688 0]

I would suggest reading the wingsuit FAQ. There are some minimums you might be interested in...

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[SuperGirl 0]

Dude, use your money for jumping right now.
Who knows what you'll want to fly when you get to 200 jumps, start wingsuiting, demo a few things etc?
Would you buy a crossbraced sub-100 sq ft canopy right now and save it for the day you'll eventually have the skills to downsize to it? Don't think so.
Don't worry about missing a good deal.. you'll find good deals again.
That Mach 1 needs to be flown, not thrown in a dusty closet for the next 12 months.

[piisfish 135]

ask Virgin Burner.. He knows a lot about it.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DarkZero 0]

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ask Virgin Burner.. He knows a lot about it.

...your mother...

www.pralle-zeiten.de

[mccordia 73]

Virgin Burner bought an SM1, but has been jumping a prodigy and classic. Untill he has at least a double dozen or more wingsuit jumps...(his words).

Kid got brains

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[virgin-burner 1]

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ask Virgin Burner.. He knows a lot about it.

what the fuck do YOU know, 400 jumps in 10yrs, you dont have no business in the air wearing a wingsuit anyway..

its a mach1, not an SM1. and i paid less than 500$ for my good deal..

come summer, i'll have somewhere between 20-50 jumps on the classic, and have a nice suit ready. not having to look around.

and nick, if your only right to exist comes from taking the piss out of people, while you never actually seem to give advice (not that i've read of anyway), why dont you keep it to yourself?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

and since i'm already in a bitchy and whiney mood, its actually kind of sad that after around 2yrs i'm on this site, the first person i got to meet up personally is shropshire from england. which was fucking cool BTW, but not a fellow countryman first!?

and one out of the approximately two guys on here that went out of their ways to help a fucking n00b out is from the netherlands? one that gave great advice, altough he probably must of gotten a couple of grey hairs out of the discussions we've had!? but i finally gave in and actually listened, got 2 suits out of it that will probably last me a lifetime, and i'm not even doing something considered grossly unsafe!?

but its much more fun to post silly one-liners that help nobody out at all. if i wasnt the one i am, i'd just say to myself "fuck it!" and go jump my mach1 anyway.. there! and people wonder why incidents happen that shouldnt have happened!

makes you wonder..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[fasted3 0]

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say to myself "fuck it!" and go jump my mach1 anyway.. there!

Please don't feel like you have to do that just cause somebody on the internet was mean to you.
Here is my opinion:
Bigger suits can be a lot tougher to fly, at least for me. I did 100 on an Intro, then moved to a Raptor. That was a good time for me, while you could do it sooner. I could back fly and do flips and rolls pretty well, and get out of the tumbles that learning those things sometimes caused. By getting that stuff down, it made the transition easier.
After 125 on that I went with a SM1, and found that I had a real challange on my hands. I've got 35 or so on it, and it's still a question of me flying it or it flying me. I will get it no doubt, but have made it harder on myself than i could have.
The smaller suits are easier to get out of trouble with, and you should be very good at that before moving up. They are also a lot of fun; a bit less hang time maybe, but a lot more agility too. Don't think you need the biggest or hottest suit available to be a wingsuit pilot. Take your time and enjoy the ride.

But what do I know?

[The111 0]

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but its much more fun to post silly one-liners that help nobody out at all. if i wasnt the one i am, i'd just say to myself "fuck it!" and go jump my mach1 anyway.. there! and people wonder why incidents happen that shouldnt have happened!

I see what you did there. And it's not very clever, at all.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[piisfish 135]

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and nick, if your only right to exist comes from taking the piss out of people, while you never actually seem to give advice (not that i've read of anyway), why dont you keep it to yourself?

hello mister Drama-Queen, had a short night ?
wasn't taking the piss out of you. By reading between the lines, you would have noticed the reference to someone who bought a "too performant suit" for his actual skill level, but asked (like the O.P.), got good advice, and decided to jump it later.

Maybe instead of biting immediately, you could have passed on what you had learnt.

And you need 2 people to meet...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Butters 0]

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The smaller suits are easier to get out of trouble with, and you should be very good at that before moving up. They are also a lot of fun; a bit less hang time maybe, but a lot more agility too. Don't think you need the biggest or hottest suit available to be a wingsuit pilot. Take your time and enjoy the ride.

Good post. After all, we don't want to see the same trends with wingsuit upsizing as we do with canopy downsizing (in regards to accidents) ...

PS: I was actually going to purchase a Vampire III recently but decided to put a couple hundred more on my Phantom II instead.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[fasted3 0]

Yes, the V3 looks so beautiful I want one too...
But if I could afford another suit I'd get a Raptor.
Not that I'd give up the SM1. It is a handful, but what fun! 2:57 and a 5 mile flight this weekend. I still wobble around some, so 3 minutes is possible for sure.
Maybe I'll get good enough in this one to stop missing the Raptor, but so far I find it less stable, more tiring, and less agile. I want both, and a Vampire too.
One other thing: I wouldn't lend my SM1 to people that could easily fly the Raptor, so it's harder to swap out with friends now.

But what do I know?

[PhoenixRising 0]

500 for a mach 1 is a good deal, but there are always gonna be good deals out there. Spend your money how you see fit, but if i were you I would use it to jump more, get to 200 quicker so you can fly a mach 1 sooner. we set our suit minimums as follows

200 for Intro
40 wingsuit jumps for Raptor
100 wingsuit jumps for Mach 1
150 wingsuit jumps for SM1
200 wingsuit jumps for XS

those are our "official" recommendations
These are just guidelines, we have other suits you can use in between, such as an Aerobat, which is a great suit to learn acrobatics in.

Spending more time in a smaller suit will make you a better flyer for sure. learn all the inputs needed to fly a raptor, or aerobat with flocks, and when you put on a big suit it will be much easier to transition.

learning to backfly for example, in a mach1 is MUCH harder than in a aerobat or raptor. You would be selling yourself short in that case.

Also, I have acsess to around 100 demo suits. of every type and size (tonysuits) :-)
send me a PM, find out our tour schedule, and Ill get you trained up, when you get 200, or come to sebastian this winter. the intros we use are free for your to use with the first flight course, after jump it all you can, get your experience up, and I will toss you a bigger suit to try.

Once you get your minimums, Im always happy to send out a demo suit to you. all you will have to pay is shipping.

Jump as much as you can, and when your ready contact us and Ill make sure you have a set of wings



Justin

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[virgin-burner 1]

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Please don't feel like you have to do that just cause somebody on the internet was mean to you.

well, thats what i've tried to say. you know, i'm all for taking the piss out of people n'shit, but, some useful advice every now and then wont hurt the case either.

i did buy the mach1, knowing well i shouldnt jump it for quite a while. i was more than tempted, and i could have, but i havent. not only because i'm smarter than that, but mostly because i've had (what i consider to be FRIENDS) people telling me, what was wise and WHY that was so. and those exact same people actually got me a classicII to fuck around with, and to learn how to actually fly the (whatever) suit. and not to let the suit fly me.

its pretty silly to put on one of the biggest suit available and flail around like duck-shit, would it. even a moron would understand that, so it was easy for me to grab the concept.

and yea, i'm still the guy that had his first flights with his 70th jump, and i actually put the nylon-crack off for another 114 jumps. still not the magic 200, but anyway..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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but its much more fun to post silly one-liners that help nobody out at all. if i wasnt the one i am, i'd just say to myself "fuck it!" and go jump my mach1 anyway.. there! and people wonder why incidents happen that shouldnt have happened!

I see what you did there. And it's not very clever, at all.

in fact, you dont see what happened there. because what i was referring to is that gixer-guy in GSD that bought a 120 stiletto anyway. whoever sold it to him right after AFF, altough the "advice" (or giving shit, whatever you might want to call it) was clearly against it.

again, as i said in my post right further up, i waited and jumped my ass off since last year, but bought a HP-suit anyway. so what!? maybe you (not only you, but more in general) should realize that there are people that dont only own brains, but they also know how to use them.. that might be a concept hard to grasp.. this is not a PA, but an observation!

so, whats my point you might ask: there are people that are eager to learn, that suck up every bit of information they can get their grabby hands on. what if they dont get it!? they go out on their own, do whatever they please anyway, and then, thats when the shit starts to hit the fan..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[gainer 0]

I have around 200+ wingsuit jumps, of those I have doen at least 100+ on a GTI, I can fly with anybody, even a S6 with that suit.

Now my SM1 I have 20 jumps, maybe, and I am still shaking after jumping it. my opinion don't buy the suit, better deals will come, and don't dicourage the intro suits, I saw a guy outfly a vampire on an OLD classic.

[virgin-burner 1]

nick, in fact, i had a very exhausting 2 days trip down to valais and back, some snowboarding and drinking inbetween..

then i get onto here, see whats going on, and what do i see, your "silly" one-liner! i actually waited it off for a night! before i replied. you're right, i am a drama-queen, but so what. instead of posting cryptic crap, you might as well post something useful and more understandable.

and something a little more combined to the posts above that might be better explained in an example not related to wingsuiting (as this is obviously emotionally distressing to me, since i'm a drama-queen
for my first rig i got that 150 sabre. loaded at the time just under 1.3 (i'm gaining weight it seems and now its loaded over that.. ). i'm constantly learning to fly that thing, i've had my first canopy-course on it right after the season started again at my dropzone, i got (and hope to get more!!!) mentoring on it, i even went on to ask for a briefing for the more advanced (read high-performance approaches) landings. the other piis-brother gave it to me, saying with a smirk that if i dont get the briefing, i'll try it eventually anyway and might fuck up myself in the process. not a good thing for anyone, anyway.

so, why not pass on the information? if people ask for it? they want to learn! if they dont get it, well, i said that already, they might not only hurt themselves and/or others while doing so.. the sport will suffer, instructors will trust even less their students, and/or vice-versa! its a dog biting its own arse..

and to you again, nick, you know i'm being trained to the most demanding standards in this country. and if i fuck up, mate, that will turn ugly on me.

whenever i read in the iincidents about some tragic loss, guys hoooking themselves in or the like, i'm asking myself: why did that happen? shouldnt that poor lad have known better? why did no-one tell him? - i'm being sold to: his instructors must have failed him! he didnt get the instructions he needed. nobody took their precious time to sit down with them and explain things.

in my own case, and all of you can ask that dutch guy what it took to convince me, that some people might be slow learners. that their egos cannot be adjusted by saying: "oh, you gonna die, where can i bet on bounce-bingo? i'll win!"?

it is you super-experienced skygods that make all the difference to us dumb-arse, ego-tripping n00bs that think they're the latest hot shits, HP-canopy swooping, HP-wingsuits flying next-generation-skygods that just by coincidence decided to par-take in the sport of skydiving!

maybe not only us (N00BS)need a serious attitude adjustment, but also the guys that we look up to, the guys we consider our mentors, our instructors and what not. and that doesnt only apply to wingsuiting!





so, to come to an end, nick, when the fuck am i gonna meet up your sorry arse and do some jumps with!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[The111 0]

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there are people that dont only own brains, but they also know how to use them.. that might be a concept hard to grasp..

there are people that are eager to learn, that suck up every bit of information they can get their grabby hands on. what if they dont get it!? they go out on their own, do whatever they please anyway, and then, thats when the shit starts to hit the fan..

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so, why not pass on the information? if people ask for it? they want to learn! if they dont get it, well, i said that already, they might not only hurt themselves and/or others while doing so.. the sport will suffer

Let me get this straight. The people out there who "own brains and know how to use them" are the same people who will petulantly go against the well-meaning advice of those much more experienced than them, and end up hurting themselves and others in the process (i.e. do something stupid)? You're right, that is a hard concept to grasp. It's hard to understand why you'd call a person smart, who would do something so stupid. If they truly were "eager to learn," maybe they'd approach a dangerous sport more carefully (i.e. take the advice of veterans) and not end up hurting themselves and others.

And for the second time in this thread, you are now placing the blame for that potential outcome on the heads of those who withheld the knowledge from the eager little overachievers. You've now said twice, in slightly more subtle words that it is "our fault" if a 50-jump wonder gets hurt because he lacked information we refused to pass on to him. And that is absolute rubbish. The one piece of information he needs to know is that he's not ready. If he disregards that info and proceeds, then he is acting like a child, not like somebody who "owns a brain and knows how to use it." If he was my child, I would ground him. If he is just an adult acting like a child, then he is free to go hurt himself and anybody else foolish enough to let him act out his antics in their proximity or at their DZ.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mrbiceps 0]

thanks for the advice guys. im thinking that the mach 1 is a good deal but ive seen a few gti s for pretty cheap so one of those sounds like a better idea for me. cant wait to soar like a bird soon.

[Buried 0]

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I saw a guy outfly a vampire on an OLD classic.

1)it's the pilot not the suit.
2)we need more pilots in the air, not suits

more and more people are flying suits not suited for them. although there are a few suits out there well suited for most sub-disciplines, there is not one suited for all.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[virgin-burner 1]

this kind of discussion is kinda hard over the web..
basically, my point is, that instead of flaming people, take your time to sit down with them, and help them go through the process. "you're not ready yet!" is not going to help. if they want to learn, give them something to work with. i spent the last year freeflying, or i tried to learn to fly unstable positions rather..

but man, all the flak i got on here after my first flights..

ok, it wasnt the wisest thing to do. i had long convos with spot and jarno.. still have. and they guided me in the right direction. i'm glad they did.

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[piisfish 135]

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so, to come to an end, nick, when the fuck am i gonna meet up your sorry arse and do some jumps with!?

come to empuria for X-mas, and take the MAch 1

You're a lucky man to have such instructors at your DZ, they will teach you LOTS, and kick your butt if you screw up.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[virgin-burner 1]

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so, to come to an end, nick, when the fuck am i gonna meet up your sorry arse and do some jumps with!?

come to empuria for X-mas, and take the MAch 1

You're a lucky man to have such instructors at your DZ, they will teach you LOTS, and kick your butt if you screw up.

man, i'm poor, i go to locarno for a couple of days.. and will fly the classic there!
i know, i love and adore them! i choose the place for a reason..

and the flying-cows videos made me wanna skydive!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Zeemax 0]

As mentioned in another thread, don't buy ANY wingsuit yet, no matter how good the deal is.

There is zero point buying one as you're not ready to jump one yet.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies