0
bdrake529

What is the "record" to beat?

Recommended Posts

Wow. This is DZ.com and the wingsuit forum in particular, so I should have expected this. But my simple question was never intended to start such a ruckus.

Scott, I think you're getting hung up on semantics ("record" vs "largest flock"). I couldn't care less about FAI or some organizing body. What is the biggest, slot specific flock to date...period? Seems like the Lodi 16-way is it (for now). Much respect to those involved. That flock's a thing of beauty.

And I know we're all indoctrinated since birth to only think what those in "authority" tell us to think, but come on... are you telling me that if we put a 71-way together (slot perfect), that it won't be a "record" since the FAI or some other arbitrary "authority" won't recognize it? The wingsuiting community will reject its historical significance since some group of bureaucrats won't answer our phone calls?

I don't think there is anyone who seriously disagrees that there is room for improvement in flying performance on flocks. There's a small group of us at Elsinore that share this sentiment and do a "maxed out" flock whenever we get the chance. But when you're dealing with mixed experience levels (and body types/suits), it's just an accepted fact that you've got to find a middle ground. Isn't that the point of these invitationals? We'll only push the envelope when it's a select group. Any "come one, come all" event will have to compromise quality.

For the record, I think Scott is a fun guy and I think his debriefs are fair and not berating.

And bickering amongst the groups aside, I highly respect both Scott and Jeff and I'm really looking forward to both events this November.

In the words of that great philosopher and humanitarian...
"can't we all just get along?"
Brian Drake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

And bickering amongst the groups aside, I highly respect both Scott and Jeff and I'm really looking forward to both events this November.
reply]

Ditto.
I'd hate to see the bickering reach a point where folks felt a need to "choose sides" as everyone loses at that point.
Looking forward to both events. Both have merit, both will be fun, both are something for wingsuiters to look towards and aspire to participate in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Nice thing about WS is not having to wear lead.



I predict that within a few years, that will change. We'll see far fewer variations in suits and there will be an "ideal" wingloading. Just like CRW.

Dave



I'd tend to have to agree with this idea, but it's a bit more complicated then picking a crw canopy. What may be ideal for flocking (flat) may not be as ideal for 3d formations or distance or acrobatics, etc. I would say that too much diversity (in suit type and skill) just delays the potential of what can be done on any scale. It's just more apparent in larger groups.
As for the speed.. sure most are too fast, but you also can't max out a flock (especially with points). tolerances become too great for movement (both vertical and horizontal.)

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So back to my original question, am I allowed to call myself a world record holder, pretty much anyone saying I can is all I need to start doing so. I just want all the wingsuit gods of the world to get together and race balls out in classics, the way it out to be, then we'll know who the best pilot is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there evidence that anyone in the world has flown a bigger, slot perfect formation than the one you participated in at Lodi?

If not, congratulations, you're a world record holder. Or does that only count if I'm from a governing body?

What difference does it make?

Feel good that you're part of a group that has done something that no one else in the world has done to date. Savor that feeling quickly though since I have a feeling the birds in MA will be stepping it up this weekend (unless of course, you're going to be in MA too).
Brian Drake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


I just went outside my house and ran 100m in 5 seconds!

I am a world record holder! ;)



And I bet that was with your undies down around your ankles and a glass of wine in your hand......?

Atleast thats how I practice it.....;):D
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you believe me that makes it official? :)
Q. What is a wing suit?
Q. What is a wing suit formation?
Q. What is the definition of a complete formation?

You first need to define the record before you can claim it.

Only an external professional body can ratify an official world record. The FAI for skydiving.

But if you feel the need to claim records then feel free. :P But they will be un-official.

BASEstore.it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Only an external professional body can ratify an official world record. The FAI for skydiving.



Why?

Because the FAI says so?


The bottom line is that a world record means an achievement unique in the world. If you actually did run a 100m in 5 seconds, and no one in history has done that, you've set a world record, whether anyone saw you or not and whether anyone believes you or not.

What we're really discussing is not about setting a world record, but in being recognized for that accomplishment. Some of us consider the personal (and communal) knowledge of doing something never before done to be reward enough. Others need a pat on the head from people they've probably never met before (I've certainly never met anyone in the FAI) who have declared themselves "the authorities".

Oh horrors, without "authorities", people would run around fraudulently claiming world records left and right (as you sarcastically implied by your 100m claim). Uh... so what?

For one, frauds don't have the personal satisfaction of accomplishing what they claim (since they know it is a lie).

As far as impressing others. Gullible people will believe anyone and the rest of us will require some form of evidence. If the evidence holds up, I'll give that person congratulations for what they've claimed to do.

The fact that the wingsuiting community is as tight as it is (probably 1-2 degrees of separation), means we can quickly evaluate the validity of formation record claims. No, I'm not talking about rule by consensus, I'm merely referring to the fact that if anyone claims they've been in anything bigger than a perfect 16-way, enough people here know enough people to know if such an event did or did not take place (which would confirm any presented photo/video evidence or expose it as digital fraud).
Brian Drake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guiness didn't require any ratifying body to accept the Firefox/Mozilla number of downloads in a day on June 17, 2008 of this year. But it's in their record books.
Nor did they require any ratifying body to certify a Stradivarius violin known as the "world record price paid for a violin" either.
Who ratifies the "Most ketchup ever consumed in shortest time?" "Greatest number of TShirts worn at one time?" "Largest human foot?"
No one.
[edit]No one from FAI was present for Jay Stokes "World Record" of 641 (really 642) jumps in 24 hours. Would anyone dispute it was a record? Guinness didn't call on FAI to ratify that one, either. I was there for every second of it.

IMO, a "World-record" is the best performance in a specific discipline as recognized by practictioners or participants in said discipline. Nothing more.

Malaysia doesn't recognize Guiness World Records, because they have Limca World records (Sponsored by a soft drink company, named for same).:S
At the end of the day, would anyone dispute that 71 wingsuiters in the air in a slot-perfect formation (or 71 wingsuiters in the air, period) constitutes the greatest number of wingsuiters flying in proximity in the history of the discipline of wingsuiting, FAI be damned?
Until someone provides evidence to the contrary, the event in Lodi for example, is truly a "world record" within this discipline, regardless of whether Larry, Moe, or Curley at USPA, FAI, FAA, CSPA, APF, or CNN recognize the attempt.
And truth be told, who really gives a shit? It's a collective of disciplined people training to be part of something bigger than any possible individual effort. And if that in and of itself is a point of potential dispute, then this entire sport is meaningless, isn't it?
I don't care who or if anyone recognizes it as a "world record" event, I'm thrilled to be part of the largest known attempted wingsuit formations known to have taken place in our sport, successful or not.
Fu** the semantics and bullshit bickering.:S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It was fun being a part of the 16 way in Lodi. When we saw Avery's photo and we all cheered is what made the flight great. Doing it a second time just put the icing on the cake. I don't care if it is considered a record or the current largest slot perfect formation flown to date, or just a cool picture for that matter. I hope that is bested soon. That desire to improve on what has been done in the past just means this discipline will continue to grow and achieve new things we still haven't even thought of.

These two events in November will give us all who attend a chance to meet a lot of fellow flockers from far off places and have a great time.
50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

So back to my original question, am I allowed to call myself a world record holder, pretty much anyone saying I can is all I need to start doing so.



Congratulations. I offically recognize your unoffical world record holder status. :)
That designation, and maybe 30-50 lbs of lead, is all you need to to be allowed to flock with me. ;)

-Blind
"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we want the wing suit discipline to move forward, then official recognition is part of the solution (as for all the other skydiving disciplines).

At the moment there is not even a working definition of what a completed formation is! :S

What does that matter? OK, i claim to have been part of the official world record breaking largest wing suit formation ever, the 69 way from Cochstedt 2006.

BASEstore.it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still love the number 69!

Shame we had out chance to get into the Guiness Book of records, and our inability to count to 70 f*cked it up:P

Regardless of 'records', official or unofficial status...I hope everyone flies to their best, and you build the biggest formation possible, while still flying forward and keeping it safe.

I sadly wont be there (for any of the record/non record attempts) for a variety of reasons, but will be hitting F5 on dz.com every 5 minutes when November comes..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.....it will be very helpful if each organizer for a while skip the word ''record'' and ''large''. No reason to use any of this words right now.
Paperwork is a must, if one day any WS jumper want to walk around w the ''record holder'' T-shirt. Therefore, instead of bashing each other about who is or has ''bigger''... better spend some time on getting WS closer to FAI. I know James did presentation to gov. body in Paris. That is small but hopefully first and important step.

As far as formation planing goes, would be good to announce the type of formation, shape and wished size ( several option )
IMHO, that is easy to do especially if large number of people will before the WS camp attend the basic RW skill camp. Why?! Because the principal is the same....

cheers R
Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
agreed.

getting the diveplans (named/numbered slots) online a few weeks to a month before the event, will definately help show that we can actually follow through with our planning, and not just throw stuff out of airplanes and 'see what works'
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Nice thing about WS is not having to wear lead.

I predict that within a few years, that will change. We'll see far fewer variations in suits and there will be an "ideal" wingloading. Just like CRW.



And I've already seen a pilot wearing lead on the competition in Marl/Germany
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0