What is the "record" to beat?

[bdrake529 0]

With the upcoming "world record" at Elsinore and the subsequent "big way" event at Eloy increasingly topics of discussion, one issue I've not seen a clear answer on is:

What is the current record?

From what I understand, the FAI has not yet certified any record, so "officially", there's nothing to beat (and will the FAI even certify what we do in November?).

But among the community, is there a consensus on what the current top flock is?

I've heard of gigantic zoo loads in the 50s or 60s, but I'm under the impression that the 2 events in November will be stressing quality, not quantity. Declared slots, judged on proximity, completed formation or the load doesn't count.

So by stricter criteria, what's the current boast? I've seen pictures of a perfect 16-way diamond. Was there also a perfect 25-way recently?

Sara told me she was in a slot-perfect 35-way about 5 years ago in Florida. Anyone have details on this?

Thanks in advance,

Brian

Brian Drake

[The111 0]

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Sara told me she was in a slot-perfect 35-way about 5 years ago in Florida. Anyone have details on this?

I am 99% sure I know what she is talking about. It was in December of 2004, I had about 75 wingsuit jumps, and at that boogie I met Loic for the first time, and I also met Scott Bland and Omar Nery's for the first time who both went on to be good friends of mine. It was organized by Ray Dutch. I still have an 8x10 photo framed at home taken by Rickster Powell, I don't remember there being more than 23 people in frame and it was fairly "well-shaped", but not nearly as slot perfect as the 9 and 16-ways we've seen recently.

ACTUALLY... after some searching I just found THIS.
On topic, I don't think the current "world record" is any greater than 16, probably, unless somebody can show me otherwise.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[bdrake529 0]

Thanks Matt. I think it is indeed the same event Sara was referring to because she mentioned Loic being there (and her flying next to him, which you can see in the photo).

Looking at that photo, I would personally only consider Scott, Chuck, Ed, Loic, and Ian to be "in their slots" by the standard of that 16-way I've seen. But that's just me.

Brian Drake

[yuri_base 1]

Flocking record = record number of people who can't fly, falling like bricks simultaneously, creating an illusion of forward movement by aligning special arrow-like body bags in the same direction.

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[PhoenixRising 0]

check back on this forum on monday.

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[hjumper33 0]

Current official world record is the 16 way done at lodi. It was perfect, we did it twice, and more importantly, I was on it. Cmon, what are the odds that ill ever get a world record again, at least let me have this one for a couple of months.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Thanks Matt. I think it is indeed the same event Sara was referring to because she mentioned Loic being there (and her flying next to him, which you can see in the photo).

Looking at that photo, I would personally only consider Scott, Chuck, Ed, Loic, and Ian to be "in their slots" by the standard of that 16-way I've seen. But that's just me.

That jump was in no way slot perfect.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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Flocking record = record number of people who can't fly, falling like bricks simultaneously, creating an illusion of forward movement by aligning special arrow-like body bags in the same direction.

I think people care about your comments just about as much as your numbers. Your so cool.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[LouDiamond 1]

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With the upcoming "world record" at Elsinore and the subsequent "big way" event at Eloy increasingly topics of discussion, one issue I've not seen a clear answer on is:

What is the current record?

From what I understand, the FAI has not yet certified any record, so "officially", there's nothing to beat (and will the FAI even certify what we do in November?).

But among the community, is there a consensus on what the current top flock is?

I've heard of gigantic zoo loads in the 50s or 60s, but I'm under the impression that the 2 events in November will be stressing quality, not quantity. Declared slots, judged on proximity, completed formation or the load doesn't count.

So by stricter criteria, what's the current boast? I've seen pictures of a perfect 16-way diamond. Was there also a perfect 25-way recently?

Sara told me she was in a slot-perfect 35-way about 5 years ago in Florida. Anyone have details on this?

Thanks in advance,

Brian

There seems to be some confusion between the Elisnore event and mine. I am not trying to set a "record". The problem lies in that wingsuiting isn't recognized as a discipline by the FAI and therefore not even Guinness Book of records will acknowledge anything that we do. What I intend to do is bring the best wingsuit pilots in the world together and attempt to build the largest slot specific formation to date, what ever number that may be based on who shows up and what we accomplish. With that said, the bigger goal is to push wingsuiting to the next level as it has started to stagnate in mediocrity of flight. I'm tired of flying with my legs on my ass and arms back just so everyone can get in the formation. I am sad to say that Yuri's description in the post above is not far off.

People need to start flying their bodies and flying their suits faster, the way they were designed,not the other way around. I put this to the test in my group in Germany and we flew fast,very fast on most of the dives and it worked great for having consistent levels and symmetry in the formation. To put this in perspective for everyone, purple Mike, whom most of you have flown with before as the base, moved himself to the intermediate group because he could not hang with the people in my group in either of the 2 suits he was flying if he wasn't the base. I'm not saying this as a negative towards Mike, as he was flying at the speeds he and most everyone else has grown accustomed to when flocking.I think we have enough people in the WS community capable of flying fast and tight that we need to pick the pace up if we ever hope to build bigger slot perfect formations in the future. With the speed it becomes easier for people to maintain consistent levels and it's easier to maintain proper distances as there is less "breathing" or accordion effect in the formation as it gets bigger.

With the high caliber of people in Eloy, I hope to open a lot of peoples eyes to flying fast and to work some jumps with people who have the ability to do it beyond the same stuff we've already seen and done countless times. I flew some of the formations I have in mind while in Germany with the Finns on a smaller scale and they found it a challenge to do some of the stuff I have in mind for Eloy but they also found it to be fun to both fly fast and to push themselves.

I could give a rats ass about a record that no one will remember or care about in a years time as there is no governing body who will ratify it or even officially recognize it within skydiving. No one with in the WS community can even remember what the current one is so what does that tell you? We could claim a Galactic record and it still wouldn't be recognized by anyone. But I do want to keep wingsuiting fun and to eventually have it recognized as a discipline but thats not going to happen if we continue the way we are within our community. People need to concentrate more on flying faster forward together and less on RW speed flocks and so called "records" if we hope to see growth in the discipline.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mccordia 73]

At the speeds Tero flew base, half the flock, the cameramen and load organiser went low or couldnt catch on some jumps, so it wasnt just mike
That dude is just freakin fast!

But getting speeds up, while still honoring the intended goal of building a formation..definately the way forward..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[badenhop 0]

Hello,
Have you seen this photo?
Current World Record Lodi 16-way Flock (slot perfect)
None of that ass and arm stuff going on there.
While skilled flockers appreciate proximate capabilities,
shitty skydivers just piss and moan that flocking sucks.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[aarthus 0]

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I'm tired of flying with my legs on my ass and arms back just so everyone can get in the formation. I am sad to say that Yuri's description in the post above is not far off.

People need to start flying their bodies and flying their suits faster, the way they were designed,not the other way around. I put this to the test in my group in Germany and we flew fast,very fast on most of the dives and it worked great for having consistent levels and symmetry in the formation.

Finally it comes !!! Very Happy to read this post ! 100 %

It was about time !

Patrick de Guillebon

[mccordia 73]

Quote

Hello,
Have you seen this photo?
Current World Record Lodi 16-way Flock (slot perfect)
None of that ass and arm stuff going on there.
While skilled flockers appreciate proximate capabilities,
shitty skydivers just piss and moan that flocking sucks.

As I also sayd when that picture was first posted.
Not caring about an actual FAI/Guiness or whatever recognition of a 'record', I do think that 16 way is the biggest slotperfect formation flown to date.

Its important to get formations flying more and more, but it should never surpass the goal/intentions of actually building a complete formation.

Performance is important, but if it means leaving half the flock behind, then either be more strickt in cutting/selecting people, or just fly solo's.

I find that often people tend to think in extremes, while there is a lot of room left between legs on the ass, and all out/balls to the walls maximum flight...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[aerodynamite 0]

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At the speeds Tero flew base, half the flock, the cameramen and load organiser went low or couldnt catch on some jumps, so it wasnt just mike
That dude is just freakin fast!

But getting speeds up, while still honoring the intended goal of building a formation..definately the way forward..

I had brakes on in every jump... There was one cameraman who was always there if he was on the load. Flying ten meters under me same speed on his back.

Photos by Mark Harris

- No mercy in the flock! Straighten your legs!!! -

[mccordia 73]

Yea..it was funny seeing people go low on bigways, and having mark look at them with a "Dude..Im on my back and Im keeping up!" kinda look on his face

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[kallend 1,620]

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Yea..it was funny seeing people go low on bigways, and having mark look at them with a "Dude..Im on my back and Im keeping up!" kinda look on his face

Happens all the time in RW. Someone goes low on a big way and I look at them and think about the 12 pounds of lead I'm wearing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mccordia 73]

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Yea..it was funny seeing people go low on bigways, and having mark look at them with a "Dude..Im on my back and Im keeping up!" kinda look on his face

Happens all the time in RW. Someone goes low on a big way and I look at them and think about the 12 pounds of lead I'm wearing.

Is that also with you on your back, smiling at everyone, making it look easy

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Heffro1 0]

"There seems to be some confusion between the Elisnore event and mine."



This has only been created by you! Please stop, the only people that suffer are the jumpers.



"What I intend to do is bring the best wingsuit pilots in the world together and attempt to build the largest slot specific formation to date"


Sorry but this will be done in Elsinore, you have no chance.



"With that said, the bigger goal is to push wingsuiting to the next level as it has started to stagnate in mediocrity of flight"



That's not true at all, wingsuiting is in its biggest expansion stage right now. Its only mediocre in your mind.




"People need to start flying their bodies and flying their suits faster, the way they were designed,not the other way around."


This would be fine on a dive with everyone of a similar build flying similar suits. That however is not the case, we always have tall and short pilots, heavy and light with a big mix of suits. I heard all about your fast big way group solo's at Cochstead.




"With the speed it becomes easier for people to maintain consistent levels and it's easier to maintain proper distances as there is less "breathing" or accordion effect in the formation as it gets bigger."


This is far from the truth, the faster you fly the more sensitive a suit becomes to inputs. The fast flocks only seem to work well with more experienced pilots, and the few less experienced ones that are flying ahead of their jump number.




"I could give a rats ass about a record that no one will remember or care about in a years time as there is no governing body who will ratify it or even officially recognize it within skydiving"



No one cares how you feel about this record. The FAI will not recognize wingsuiting until it sees this kind of stuff happening.
Proposals have been put forth and eventually they will recognize it.





"But I do want to keep wingsuiting fun and to eventually have it recognized as a discipline but thats not going to happen if we continue the way we are within our community.'



Fun, come on I've been organized by you and it was anything but fun, everyone unanimously agreed they felt chastised and insulted by your debriefings.




"To put this in perspective for everyone, purple Mike, whom most of you have flown with before as the base, moved himself to the intermediate group because he could not hang with the people in my group in either of the 2 suits he was flying if he wasn't the base."


This again is not true Purple Mike was moved to the intermediate group for camera geeking and other nonsense that he does. I can say one thing for Purple Mike, he is a dam good wingsuit pilot that you could take some lessons from.


You seem to use the word "I" a lot, as you are in love with yourself!

Please stop trying to down talk the Elsinore event, you are only making yourself look bad in the eyes of other wingsuiters!

And please stop calling Elsinore and telling them its a bad idea for them to have a record there because of the nearby lake the landing area is more than adequate for this event!


Jeff Nebelkopf

BUY A WINGSUIT
My Website
Tony Suits
[url "http:/

[DangerDan 0]

That just made my day thank you Jeff

[PhoenixRising 0]

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[The111 0]

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"With the speed it becomes easier for people to maintain consistent levels and it's easier to maintain proper distances as there is less "breathing" or accordion effect in the formation as it gets bigger."

This is far from the truth, the faster you fly the more sensitive a suit becomes to inputs. The fast flocks only seem to work well with more experienced pilots, and the few less experienced ones that are flying ahead of their jump number.

Jeff's got the right idea here. To say faster flocks are easier is like saying it's easier to control a motorcycle at high speeds. True, it's easier to control the bike going 50mph than 5mph, but at 150mph it becomes difficult again due to the extreme speed. The best flocking speed is in the middle, not even close to "fast" or balls out.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[kallend 1,620]

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Yea..it was funny seeing people go low on bigways, and having mark look at them with a "Dude..Im on my back and Im keeping up!" kinda look on his face

Happens all the time in RW. Someone goes low on a big way and I look at them and think about the 12 pounds of lead I'm wearing.

Is that also with you on your back, smiling at everyone, making it look easy

Nope, - just wearing a load of lead, smiling and making it look easy to stay up.

Nice thing about WS is not having to wear lead.

Edited to add: the RW big way organizers are generally civil to each other too!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Costyn 0]

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"With the speed it becomes easier for people to maintain consistent levels and it's easier to maintain proper distances as there is less "breathing" or accordion effect in the formation as it gets bigger."

This is far from the truth, the faster you fly the more sensitive a suit becomes to inputs. The fast flocks only seem to work well with more experienced pilots, and the few less experienced ones that are flying ahead of their jump number.

Jeff's got the right idea here. To say faster flocks are easier is like saying it's easier to control a motorcycle at high speeds. True, it's easier to control the bike going 50mph than 5mph, but at 150mph it becomes difficult again due to the extreme speed. The best flocking speed is in the middle, not even close to "fast" or balls out.

Indeed, IMHO, the speed and breathing of the flock are mostly unrelated. What is related are the proximity and the breathing. The closer you fly, the more small inputs people make which are then propagated to the back. Close proximity flying is cool, but it does not make for a neat evenly spaced flock.

Additionally, there is not only a burble above and behind you, but there's dirty air around the sides too. I've noticed this flying as a base, where someone is flying very close to my leg wing and I felt my leg wing get bumped around by the bow wave coming off the person behind me. Another reason not to have people flying too close to the base.

Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

[unclecharlie95 3]

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Current un-official world record is the 16 way done at lodi.

Corrected it for you.

A record can only be ratified by an external body. No one recognizes wing suit flying so both events are about pushing the bar for the discipline as a whole. Only an "un-official" record can be claimed. Period.

IMO we are no way near the level for a 71 way formation and that is my honest opinion after attending most of the large wingsuit events for the past 4 years.

But that being said, it is important to move forward and try for bigger and bigger formations. 35-45 may be doable with the right pilots / formation / leadership.

Good luck to both events, may they be successful and more importantly safe.

J

BASEstore.it

[LouDiamond 1]

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"There seems to be some confusion between the Elisnore event and mine."



This has only been created by you! Please stop, the only people that suffer are the jumpers.

Negative. As I have stated the Eloy event is not about trying to set or claim a "record". However, some jumpers have confused both events and think they are both record attempts. I am simply clarifying the issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

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"What I intend to do is bring the best wingsuit pilots in the world together and attempt to build the largest slot specific formation to date"


Sorry but this will be done in Elsinore, you have no chance

I'm sorry but I don't see this as a competition as you apparently do. I see it as an opportunity to bring people together to possibly accomplish some great things and also have fun in the process. For the record, I really hope you guys do some great things in Elisnore. It will only help to spur people to improve and to do even bigger and better things within the sport.

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"With that said, the bigger goal is to push wingsuiting to the next level as it has started to stagnate in mediocrity of flight"



That's not true at all, wingsuiting is in its biggest expansion stage right now. Its only mediocre in your mind.

I didn't mention any thing about expansion, I am talking about the current state. We have enough skilled WS pilots in the sport now that we need to move forward. And I am not the only one who thinks this way, read up a few posts.

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"People need to start flying their bodies and flying their suits faster, the way they were designed,not the other way around."


This would be fine on a dive with everyone of a similar build flying similar suits. That however is not the case, we always have tall and short pilots, heavy and light with a big mix of suits. I heard all about your fast big way group solo's at Cochstead

I am not talking about scald the dog fast, I am merely saying we need to fly faster than what has become the norm. There were several different body types as well as suits that flew together in my group but I understand what you are trying to say.

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"With the speed it becomes easier for people to maintain consistent levels and it's easier to maintain proper distances as there is less "breathing" or accordion effect in the formation as it gets bigger."


This is far from the truth, the faster you fly the more sensitive a suit becomes to inputs. The fast flocks only seem to work well with more experienced pilots, and the few less experienced ones that are flying ahead of their jump number.

Again, I am not saying we need to fly balls to the wall but we do need to pick up the pace. We have a growing group of people who have the skills to fly fast in close proximity safely now. Variation in speed/fall rate cause formations to breath both horizontally and vertically(Levels) much like stop and go vehicle traffic. When everyone flys at the same pace it becomes easier for people to fly consistently.

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"I could give a rats ass about a record that no one will remember or care about in a years time as there is no governing body who will ratify it or even officially recognize it within skydiving"



No one cares how you feel about this record. The FAI will not recognize wingsuiting until it sees this kind of stuff happening.
Proposals have been put forth and eventually they will recognize it.

I wasn't referring to your record, just the idea of labeling something a record when there is no one to ratify or officially recognize it. Lets keep moving forward and doing bigger and better things and worry less about what it's going to be called. Thinking that these types of events will cause the discipline to be recognized by the FAI is akin to putting the cart in front of the horse in terms of the proper steps that need to be taken, but that is a whole different topic. Once a viable and supportable plan is put forth, then we stand a chance of being recognized.

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"But I do want to keep wingsuiting fun and to eventually have it recognized as a discipline but thats not going to happen if we continue the way we are within our community.'



Fun, come on I've been organized by you and it was anything but fun, everyone unanimously agreed they felt chastised and insulted by your debriefings.

Some people like to sugar coat things and some people don't like hearing the truth. The only way people get better is if they know what they are doing right and wrong. If the good is over emphasized and what could be improved on is ignored or glossed over people don't know where improvements can be made. The video doesn't lie and everyone else can see who did what, not addressing it doesn't mean it didn't happen, especialy in matters where safety is concerned. When it comes to debriefing, If the shoe fits, wear it, if it doesn't drive on.

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"To put this in perspective for everyone, purple Mike, whom most of you have flown with before as the base, moved himself to the intermediate group because he could not hang with the people in my group in either of the 2 suits he was flying if he wasn't the base."


This again is not true Purple Mike was moved to the intermediate group for camera geeking and other nonsense that he does. I can say one thing for Purple Mike, he is a dam good wingsuit pilot that you could take some lessons from.

Check your information because it is not accurate. Mike came to me after struggling and volutarily moved himself to the other group where he was guilty of his typical behavior and warned. As I stated and you conveniently ignored, my reference to Mike was not meant in a disparaging way.

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You seem to use the word "I" a lot, as you are in love with yourself!

Please stop trying to down talk the Elsinore event, you are only making yourself look bad in the eyes of other wingsuiters!

And please stop calling Elsinore and telling them its a bad idea for them to have a record there because of the nearby lake the landing area is more than adequate for this event!

I think you're under the wrong impression and misinformed in your statement. I have not spoken or called anyone at Elsinore since roughly Oct/Nov 07 when I was initially contacted and asked to hold an event there. I wish you and everyone participating in the Elsinore event the best of luck as a lot of those same people are attending the Eloy event and the WS community as a whole stands to benefit from both of these events. As always, I am available to discuss this topic with you in person or on the phone and clear up any misunderstandings if you so choose.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING