vidiot 0 #76 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteI prefer to put a GPS on a tandem - it's usually easier to retrieve the unit than with a streamer ;-) But for which part of the jump of the tandem do you calculate the windspeed from? Freefall or canopy? (and if so, how?) And if you calculate the wind speed from the tandem, do you use that speed for the entire day, or only for that load? The wind speed would be taken at certain key heights, eg. where the wind changes direction or if it is constant, one value @ 2500m would be enough. It would be inter-/extrapolated for the rest of the dive. We would need one regular jumper/tandem on every load for up to date information. This years results were not compensated for wind!My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #77 August 12, 2008 Thanx..that explains a lot..as there was quite a bit of variable talk buzzing on the DZ as to how results where calculated. Not that ANY amount of math or corrections would have helped with my scores hehe Big thank you for the work (and added explenations here). So how about next year, adding a few euro's to the entrance fee, and offering people discount 'WoM GPS tandems' JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #78 August 12, 2008 Quote So how about next year, adding a few euro's to the entrance fee, and offering people discount 'WoM GPS tandems' Better yet, let's hold a tandem instructor rating course and help to subsidize the event Although I still think having the pilot 'fly' the wind @ 2000 and 3000m - even when it's only one value @ 2500m is more practical and should give us practical results. After all, this is all still a lot of experimenting and trail and error... Oh, and all wind correctionswould not have improved your round 1 time result - except maybe for a 100mph downwind My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #79 August 12, 2008 QuoteI actually find Tony's 2.9 glide ratio a little unbelievable, considering the best glide ratio on trackingderby.com is 2.7. Simple: rules are not the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #80 August 12, 2008 QuotePlease explain what you you mean by 'detailed wind speed measurements with GPS ground speed synchronized' and why you'd need it. AFAIK all you need is wind speed (vector - speed and direction) over altitude close to or ideally during the flight. From time, altitude, true airspeed and GPS position you might be able to remove the effect of the wind. QuoteActually, Paralog could calculate the wind from a three leg pattern, but unfortunately, those !$&%$§ birds can not fly straight and constant legs and turn tight corners. Tongue Than thats a really handy feature. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deniq 0 #81 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteI actually find Tony's 2.9 glide ratio a little unbelievable, considering the best glide ratio on trackingderby.com is 2.7. Simple: rules are not the same. Please see here the best glide ratio in Vampire-2 during "Stupino Wingsuit Boogie 2007": http://www.trackingderby.com/en/trace_view_2858_meters.php 2,96 over 90 seconds! And here total results for "Stupino Wingsuit Competition 2007": http://www.ruexp.ru/upload/upload_files/TOTAL%20Competition.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #82 August 12, 2008 QuotePlease see here the best glide ratio in Vampire-2 during "Stupino Wingsuit Boogie 2007": http://www.trackingderby.com/en/trace_view_2858_meters.php 2,96 over 90 seconds! Thats very impressive, and shows exactly what is wrong with Tracking Derby. This jump should be at nr 1.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deniq 0 #83 August 12, 2008 Quote Thats very impressive, and shows exactly what is wrong with Tracking Derby. This jump should be at nr 1. Trackingderby is competition for forward speed! More forward speed = more distance. Quite simply! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #84 August 12, 2008 Quote Quote Thats very impressive, and shows exactly what is wrong with Tracking Derby. This jump should be at nr 1. Trackingderby is competition for forward speed! More forward speed = more distance. Quite simply! So its really a competition for who jumps from the highest altitude with a steep but fast forward flight, and has the balls to jump with the highest wind possibleJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #85 August 12, 2008 QuoteTrackingderby is competition for forward speed! More forward speed = more distance. Quite simply! But don't you agree that glide ratio is a good measure of pilot ability/wingsuit performance? If you want to compare those, I say you should use glide ratio, not distance covered over time.Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #86 August 12, 2008 Maybe a mod. can split this off into a seperate discussion on GPS use and competitions, as it detracks a bit from the awesome WoM competition (guilty) JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #87 August 12, 2008 QuoteBut don't you agree that glide ratio is a good measure of pilot ability/wingsuit performance? If you want to compare those, I say you should use glide ratio, not distance covered over time. Than how would you calculate glide ratio? What we can measure is ground track or altitude in the time domain. Trackingderby's "fault" is not having a fixed race condition like ground track between 2500 and 1500m AGL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #88 August 12, 2008 QuoteThan how would you calculate glide ratio? What we can measure is ground track or altitude in the time domain. Trackingderby's "fault" is not having a fixed race condition like ground track between 2500 and 1500m AGL. Agreed... it should be measured over range in altitude (2500 to 1500), not a range in time (105 seconds fixed).Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #89 August 12, 2008 Quote Than how would you calculate glide ratio? What we can measure is ground track or altitude in the time domain. By dividing the distance flown through the altitude used for that distanceMy Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #90 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuotePlease explain what you you mean by 'detailed wind speed measurements with GPS ground speed synchronized' and why you'd need it. AFAIK all you need is wind speed (vector - speed and direction) over altitude close to or ideally during the flight. From time, altitude, true airspeed and GPS position you might be able to remove the effect of the wind./reply] But why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]!My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyjester 0 #91 August 12, 2008 Sorry for being not a computer gps-digital-wind speed-junkee my simple mind says : paraglider/glider, they searching for upwinds or the surfer try to get the best wave in a competition. if it works ,is fine-if not . .tough same story with sailing boats/offshore boats we do our sports in nature circumsdances, we are parts of the nature,luck seems to be a part of nature. Let us take chances. To choose the wrong wind direction is better than miscalculation,isn`t it ? Totally wrong ? ? don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ? www.pralle-zeiten.de Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vidiot 0 #92 August 12, 2008 Quote same story with sailing boats/offshore boats Actually a very good example: Sailing and speed boats all compete at the same time, having the exactly same conditions. What they make of these conditions is their skill... Unless you manage to arrange for a plane that fits all competitors at once (I heard the AN-72 is very reliable ) we need to compensate for the different conditions. Oh, and as you brought up sailboats: Sailboats actually get a bonus/malus depending on their size/technical advantage (Yardstick-Rule). That would lead to suggesting to normalize the results by weight and wingsuit area! My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #93 August 12, 2008 QuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Both data set should have a common clock, in other words single device ...... Barometric altimeter has its errors, so does GPS and wind speed meter..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vidiot 0 #94 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Both data set should have a common clock, in other words single device ...... Barometric altimeter has its errors, so does GPS and wind speed meter..... We must be following separate trails of thought. I'm still not getting how this all relates.My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #95 August 12, 2008 QuoteWe must be following separate trails of thought. I'm still not getting how this all relates. All I say that data samples should match the same reference clock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenediktDE 2 #96 August 12, 2008 QuoteAttention: The back flying guy with this sweet belly is Benedikt. He said just before: "Food mustn´t be tasty- it must just be enough!" The original quote is: "I eat everything as long as it is much..."For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DarkZero 0 #97 August 17, 2008 here´re some of the world´s best wingsuit pilots . . . and som of the luckiest guys of WoM and some of both ...your mother... www.pralle-zeiten.de Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites huge 0 #98 August 17, 2008 QuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Why don't you use weather balloons. They are cheap, well-tested and pretty easy to operate - also, they are kind of a like designed for that. You can always try to get the easy way out and offer free tandems to meteorology students from local uni if they do the observations and calculations for you. Best of all they might be able to provide the required equipment as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Costyn 0 #99 August 18, 2008 QuoteWhy don't you use weather balloons. They are cheap, well-tested and pretty easy to operate - also, they are kind of a like designed for that. Well balloons might be cheap, but a theodolite (angle measuring device) is not really cheap? Or can you rent these? Then it might become interesting. And are the big balloons cheap too? You'd have to follow it with the theodolite until 3000 meters, so I imagine you'd need a pretty big balloon (or a really good (expensive) theodolite).Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenediktDE 2 #100 August 18, 2008 In hot air ballooning championships such a device is used to measure the winds on altitude. I could try to get some infos from the ballooning association. Should I try? Could J-Lo do so in his ballooning association?For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Skyjester 0 #91 August 12, 2008 Sorry for being not a computer gps-digital-wind speed-junkee my simple mind says : paraglider/glider, they searching for upwinds or the surfer try to get the best wave in a competition. if it works ,is fine-if not . .tough same story with sailing boats/offshore boats we do our sports in nature circumsdances, we are parts of the nature,luck seems to be a part of nature. Let us take chances. To choose the wrong wind direction is better than miscalculation,isn`t it ? Totally wrong ? ? don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ? www.pralle-zeiten.de Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #92 August 12, 2008 Quote same story with sailing boats/offshore boats Actually a very good example: Sailing and speed boats all compete at the same time, having the exactly same conditions. What they make of these conditions is their skill... Unless you manage to arrange for a plane that fits all competitors at once (I heard the AN-72 is very reliable ) we need to compensate for the different conditions. Oh, and as you brought up sailboats: Sailboats actually get a bonus/malus depending on their size/technical advantage (Yardstick-Rule). That would lead to suggesting to normalize the results by weight and wingsuit area! My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #93 August 12, 2008 QuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Both data set should have a common clock, in other words single device ...... Barometric altimeter has its errors, so does GPS and wind speed meter..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #94 August 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Both data set should have a common clock, in other words single device ...... Barometric altimeter has its errors, so does GPS and wind speed meter..... We must be following separate trails of thought. I'm still not getting how this all relates.My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #95 August 12, 2008 QuoteWe must be following separate trails of thought. I'm still not getting how this all relates. All I say that data samples should match the same reference clock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #96 August 12, 2008 QuoteAttention: The back flying guy with this sweet belly is Benedikt. He said just before: "Food mustn´t be tasty- it must just be enough!" The original quote is: "I eat everything as long as it is much..."For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkZero 0 #97 August 17, 2008 here´re some of the world´s best wingsuit pilots . . . and som of the luckiest guys of WoM and some of both ...your mother... www.pralle-zeiten.de Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huge 0 #98 August 17, 2008 QuoteBut why would you need wind speed synchronized with ground speed [Vw(Vg)]? We need wind speed over altitude [Vw(A)]! Why don't you use weather balloons. They are cheap, well-tested and pretty easy to operate - also, they are kind of a like designed for that. You can always try to get the easy way out and offer free tandems to meteorology students from local uni if they do the observations and calculations for you. Best of all they might be able to provide the required equipment as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Costyn 0 #99 August 18, 2008 QuoteWhy don't you use weather balloons. They are cheap, well-tested and pretty easy to operate - also, they are kind of a like designed for that. Well balloons might be cheap, but a theodolite (angle measuring device) is not really cheap? Or can you rent these? Then it might become interesting. And are the big balloons cheap too? You'd have to follow it with the theodolite until 3000 meters, so I imagine you'd need a pretty big balloon (or a really good (expensive) theodolite).Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #100 August 18, 2008 In hot air ballooning championships such a device is used to measure the winds on altitude. I could try to get some infos from the ballooning association. Should I try? Could J-Lo do so in his ballooning association?For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
