0
yuri_base

Great example of idea sharing and collaboration in dream of flight

Recommended Posts

Yo!

If it's not a hundred-page list of people going to a boogie (in fact, simple math shows that for N participants adding themselves one by one to the list the thread will contain N*(N+1)/2 names - for N=100, that's 5050 names of which 4950 are uselessly repeated), it's a discussion of a 200-jump rule. ;)

Here is an example of productive online sharing of ideas and collaboration - all in pursuing a different side of the same thing: the dream of flight. From RCgroups.com:

UAV - Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

Modeling Science

DIY Electronics

to name just a few. Read informative discussions there, watch step-by-step developments of new projects, schematics of cool devices and airplanes, sharing and assimilating of knowledge.

Compared to them, we here are prehistoric primates making unintelligible noises and throwing banana skins at each other.

Yet every time I go to a big gathering of wingsuiters, I count at least a couple of PhDs in physics or math, a couple with aerospace background, a few with engineering degrees, electronic whiz's, lots of programmers, mechanics, machinists, porn stars, people with unusual anatomical features like extra nipples and armpit ballsacks... the list goes on an on.

If we could combine only 1% of our collective talent, we'll be flying amazing machines that look like those from the 22nd century - but today.

Or we could remain monkeys falling in our squirrel Halloween suits like banana skins. :)
Yuri
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right on Yuri! The possibilities are enormous. Then again we might be a bunch of overacheiving monkeys.

You certainly do have a way with words, I believe that is an indication of enthusiasm as opposed to say, drug-induced mania. ;)

Keep on rockin.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yuri,

Thank GOD you have pointed this out. I TOO regularly use RCgroups forums as I am an avid high speed rc wing fanatic, and I can confirm that this forum ( well actually all dz.com forums :( ) has gone down the pan.

The build threads for instance for a Ritewing ( 160 mph +++ ) RC flying wing are great, this particular one :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684818

contains all the fanatics posting pictures and helping out each other build ( read DEVELOP ) their passion and so not only helps tremendously for relative novices like myself but ACTUALLY CONTAINS interesting RELEVANT information about the hobby these people have. they are soo passionate about the hobby it was a nice suprise to converse with people who are not just flaming the latest sub 200 jump wonder kid to have a go, build a list of people for an upcoming event when everyone knows everyone will be coming anyway or just rant about the latest brand war. Yuri, people seem to take the piss here a little when you post but for one I can tell you yours are some of the only posts I even bother to open nowadays... you may lose me sometimes with the maths but at least you are out there thinking and as I can recently see DOING something constructive.....
I think this discipline has gone from being the outcast / weirdo / new kid / cool stuff type of thing I really like to beig just as insular, incestuous and closed minded as the belly floppers. It is getting to like the skydiving community in the UK, where for the large part when you are new to a DZ you get a long list of things you are banned from doing unitl you lick the right bottoms when you first turn up... here when someone takes a leap of faith ( maybe under 200 jumps maybe not .. ) and posts here the thread immediatley turns into a flaming mission and then the inevitable brand war. how insular we must look to a prospective new pilot.... I AM a fan of CORRECT preparation prior to first flight, but have seen many cases of several thousand jump skygods nearly killing them selves on a FFC, and a few low jump wonder kids LITERALLY smoke me out the door.... preparation and skill and mindset are very important, 200 jumps as a magic number is not... it may be a good guide, but i have done tracking jump checkouts with prospective students ( I ALWAYS INSIST ON THIS EVEN AS I PAY MY OWN TRACKING JUMP SLOT ) and turned them down even though they have had WAAAAY over the legal jumps......

anyway rant over, I think we should start a new forum just for interseted people to discuss interesting things and have an instant BAN policy for the usual crap that is spoken here.... no flaming/jump number ranting/organising the latest " BIG WAY WS MEAT MISSILE PROJECT " or the god awfull and totally boring latest brand war by obviously interested parties....

see ya all

D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you are mixing oranges with apples.
99 % of users here are just consumers of the product, not the makers.
Only few dared to make something on his own, as I found so far.
On forums that you took as example, many people are dedicated hobby enthusiasts - that is totally different group of people with different interest, knowladge and motiv.

On the other hand, there are companies behind and it would be stupid for them to share secrets to the public.
Would you do it, knowing that it might endanger your bussines future?
I definitely not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I think you are mixing oranges with apples.
99 % of users here are just consumers of the product, not the makers.
Only few dared to make something on his own, as I found so far.
On forums that you took as example, many people are dedicated hobby enthusiasts - that is totally different group of people with different interest, knowladge and motiv.

On the other hand, there are companies behind and it would be stupid for them to share secrets to the public.
Would you do it, knowing that it might endanger your bussines future?
I definitely not.



Indeed, I think you have a good point here. Most of us are not interested in constructing a new wingsuit or talking about the theory of flight, unlike the RC plane forums you guys quoted, where people are making their own stuff and flying it.

Yuri, if you really would like to discuss these things with other likeminded people, I would suggest starting a new forum somewhere else, not associated with dz.com and the poo flinging monkeys here to quote you. :)
Do you think you could find enough people to warrant starting a new forum? Perhaps the admins at flybirdman.com can make a separate forum for discussing these things? Otherwise I'd be happy to help out and put up a forum somewhere where you and others can discuss theories at lenght without being laughed at by poo flinging monkeys. :P:$

Cheers,

Costyn.
Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes yes yes, and now analyse why . . .

I look at my self: 1999 we (Danni/myself) started to plan a wingsuit, the people, we tried to share our ideas, were snobishly arogant. In 2000 in Cape Town, Graham (first Birdman instructor of SA) introduced me to Jari as the crazy one, who is so stupid to think, that he is also able to make a wingsuit. Jari don´t understood the joke and took me serious and we had a long conversation and I shared my ideas with him.
About one of my ideas, he said: we can´t sell a suit to jumpers, where there is the need to change the gear. I understood and agreed.
I talked to the people who made the Sugarglider (Shaun etc.), after they talked to Loic, and they listened.
GS1- Maria listened to them.

When I survived my first prototype WS in 2002 ;), it looks a bit like a mix from GS1 and Mach1, Anton from Skydive CT, helped me to change my gear. It is too dangerous, to need to go on your back, to grap the thing, than back to the belly and pull :S

When I posted news (changeable wings/ semi rigid wings/ grip loops/ etc.), what I already tested, I allways had to fight and I´m too old for this shit. I know in history, thousand of examples: Ignaz Semmelweiß/ Tucker/ DeLorean . . . I will not change the world that much.
I prefer personal conversation, otherwise we just loose time by written misunderstoods and people who love to be in opposition.

Yuri, please don´t compare us with monkeys. I lived long time with Jimmy, a male baboon. They just great! We can learn so much from them :)

I never tried to make money out of the sport and my ideas and I will never do (hopefully) :).
don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ?

www.pralle-zeiten.de

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kinda reminds me of military skydivers (not the monkey part!) Back in the 80's, 80% were infantry and aviation. The guys that did military jumps and the guys that flew them all got together on the weekends to skydivie and figure out crazy shit! Probably holds true today.
____________________________________
I'm back in the USA!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right on, Darren!

I think compared to RC enthusiasts, technically, wingsuit flying is much more primitive not only by the level of current development and discussions, but by the nature of task at hand: for example, UAV guys need to solve so many problems - aerodynamics, GPS navigation, Kalman filters, all that complex electronics, programming IC boards, etc. etc....... We only need to apply very basic principles of aerodynamics to develop new mean and lean gliding machines of the future. But we still have no clue and resist any innovation.

We still resist the idea that a glider needs to be balanced to fly efficiently.

We still resist the idea that a glider needs to have an aerodynamic leading edges and efficient, precisely defined wing profile.

We still resist the idea that flying with "fuselage" at the same AoA as the wing is something that will get any aeronautics engineer fired.

We still have no idea what optimum AoA is and what AoA is at all.

We still have no distinction between the powered level flight and nonpowered gliding flight and constantly apply wrong concepts from the former to the latter.

We still have wingsuits with poor pressurization, weird inlets destroying the very idea of the leading edge, and refrigerator-sized "butt deflectors" that nobody proved to be efficient.

We still have wingsuits that are advertised as having maximum lift AND drag.

We're still not much different from the retarded ninjas of the 1930's who were smoking god knows what.

We still haven't moved an inch since Patrick De Gayardon circa 1997.

The time has come to look at the mirror and see our monkey faces.

"The situation is critical in the extreme. In fact it is now absolutely clear that to delay the uprising would be fatal."

Long live the wingsuit revolution!!! :)
Yuri
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Amazing, simply amazing... Every step in great detail, with photos, descriptions, ideas, data, and formulas dancing in one inspiring dance... the name of which is "Love to fly"...

Just another example:

Solar Powered UAV Project

What about us?! A list of people going to boogies and a traditional "someone dared to ask a question before 200 jumps" catfight.

Monkeys, monkeys, monkeys everywhere... :)
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have no clue, idea, etc... You should speak for yourself only.

This can be understood as insult for the current manufacturers and development people that is behind.
If this is so easy and your brilliant mind is so sure that others are limited in their abilities to understand and make something, you can make one super, ultra efficient, bla, bla,.. wing suit by yourself and show to the world that they are stupid.

Among many thing you think we have no clue you forgot the most important one - wing suit production.
Theoretical ideas are nice but without somebody that is capable of turning ideas to real product, ideas are just ideas.

My current job is somehow similar to this process where I have to fight with ideas on one side and reality of realization on the other.
Don't underestimate any of parties involved but threat them as equal.

Quote

Long live the wingsuit revolution!!!



Didn't you learned that revolution kills his own children first? Evolution is better than revolution in this case...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yuri,

More and more you writing, I can't see nothing else than your pure lack of understanding of the WS in/and skydiving ( idea, realization, testing, implementation to market, responsibilities etc...)
Even more than that. I see that you are trapped in narrow frame of theory. Impressed by internet and endless brainstorming discussing way away from reality.
For any kind of development the TIME is the key. Step by step is the way. There is no GOD who KNOW ! Those who use the product learn from it, as well as those who make the product learn from it..
Among of many statement you place here, for which I think are pointless, I saw one which really hook my eye:
''We still haven't moved an inch since Patrick De Gayardon circa 1997. ''
Do you really think this?! Please explain that, or better what is the development in your opinion?!
Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yuri.
I'll start by saying I'm a bit of a fan of yours, the stuff you write on these boards is often funny as hell, often true, but sometimes makes no sense.

Saying we've made no progress since 1997 is a bit insulting to every one of us who has built or flown something new in the last decade. When I started, a 2 minute flight was amazing, a 2.5 minute flight was extraordinary and 3 minutes almost unheard-of. Theres now a fair number of us pulling flights over 3.5 minutes from normal altitude, and 3 birds at my own DZ who have done over 3, and only ONE of those 3 weighs less than 150 lbs. A 3 mile flight used to be incredible. These days the faster birds can go over 5 miles. Finding two birds skilled enough to dock at all, let alone fly docked for awhile used to be hard to do. These days half the birds I fly with can do prolonged 3 and 4 way docks routinely. Sometimes even 5. We get to our slots in seconds, and take it for granted.

I think the effort and enthusiasm you bring to the wingsuit community is awesome but you'll make it a lot harder for the other birds to take you seriously with statements like that. It sort of implies a dismissive disrespect for everyone who has done anything noteworthy in the last decade. In a discipline as full of constant radical dedication-driven change as ours, that just makes no sense. Look around you at all the new stuff people are flying these days, think about the effort it took to develop and fly it and ask yourself if its really true "We still haven't moved an inch since Patrick." If Patrick was here, and saw what we can do, and heard you say that, he would smack you in the armpit ballsack.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The solution is very simple Yuri.
If the idea/theory/prototype is worth investigating then do it! If you think the body of knowledge and capabilities of the wingsuit are stagnating then lead the way in opening new frontiers yourself. If you feel you are not getting the moral support for your theoretical contributions to the forum. And lets face it I say theoretical because there was nothing of demonstratable value associated with them, not to be harsh just factual. Then don't come here looking for support until the product /project is finished.

I looked at the links in the RC forums you posted I didn't see anybody complaining, I saw a lot of doing!

I don't think Yves Rossy gets mad and runs off to his workshop saying "I'll show those WS forum slugs"! He just does it, did it, will do it some more.

I don't think your attitude will help you gain a sponsor, if thats what you need.

Yuri go ahead show me something amazing and I'll be your biggest fan:)
But in the meantime if you want me to put your name on a list for the next gay wingsuit boogie were we might bash one suit over the other or dislike the color of another suit......... well you, we can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The solution is very simple Yuri.
If the idea/theory/prototype is worth investigating then do it! If you think the body of knowledge and capabilities of the wingsuit are stagnating then lead the way in opening new frontiers yourself. If you feel you are not getting the moral support for your theoretical contributions to the forum. And lets face it I say theoretical because there was nothing of demonstratable value associated with them, not to be harsh just factual. Then don't come here looking for support until the product /project is finished.

I looked at the links in the RC forums you posted I didn't see anybody complaining, I saw a lot of doing!

I don't think Yves Rossy gets mad and runs off to his workshop saying "I'll show those WS forum slugs"! He just does it, did it, will do it some more.

I don't think your attitude will help you gain a sponsor, if thats what you need.

Yuri go ahead show me something amazing and I'll be your biggest fan:)
But in the meantime if you want me to put your name on a list for the next gay wingsuit boogie were we might bash one suit over the other or dislike the color of another suit......... well you, we can.



Bravo Glen B|

And I must say, your posts in the AM are much better then your posts posts in the PM, for some reason? :D


its 5 o'clock somewhere........
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't see a problem with yuri_base. He is affectionately know as the fake Yuri :)
Kris



No problems with Yuri base either, but I think he has problems with us ( so do I sometimes :D). I don't know how fake he is or not but I'm pretty sure he doesn't fly airplanes.... or model airplanes, much anyway. I bet you he has got a hell of a slide rule collection and one of those electronic learning stations from radio shack, its probably the big one with all the doo dads.:ph34r:

I can't speak for everybody but I myself am pretty grateful for wingsuits. Its perception of development in design as slow or fast is only 50% percent of the issue. Skills of the flyers should match gains in performance brought by new designs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The funny thing is... here is what the BASE Yuri said about yuri_base (aka veter_):

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1759796;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=100;#1779271

:D

one can change his nickname (after becoming the laughing stock of the dz and all online forums), but he will never change his true self :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The funny thing is... here is what the BASE Yuri said about yuri_base (aka veter_):

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1759796;page=3;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=100;#1779271

:D

one can change his nickname (after becoming the laughing stock of the dz and all online forums), but he will never change his true self :P

HAHAHAHAAA!!! Oh, shit. Yuri fucking rocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0