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# What do you think of the Phoenix Fly Stealth WS?

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Justin, are you talking about the one we did at the end of the year? I thought we were a little further than that......

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we could have been, but those were the original numbers. If anything we probable exited at like 6.2, all i know it was really fucking far, i couldnt even see the DZ. just point and click

Justin
Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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I wish I had a magic calculator with a big red button labeled "L/D" :)

It's not possible to calculate L/D from only the numbers you gave because the effect of the wind on glide ratio depends on you horizontal speed. What was the duration of your flight? And how do you know that you actually had constant 12kts wind all the way down?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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it was a 2:45 flight. and everyday i jump I always check the uppers. 3 6 9 12 it was light and variable on the ground and a consistent 12 all the way up. like i said not perfect science but thats what we have you for
forward speed i can only speculate but just by ballparking the numbers i say 80mph forward

disclaimer- i am not a math genius- maybe purple mike can figure this one out.

Justin

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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6 miles in 165 seconds = 131mph average ground speed. Minus 14mph for the wind = 117mph horizontal airspeed. 11000ft in 165 seconds = 45mph average vertical speed. Average L/D = 117/45 = 2.6.

Do you think 117mph sustained horizontal airspeed over almost 3 minutes is a reliable number?

If you passed James in Stealth on your flight, you'll be moving at 52mph past him?

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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i was not alone Lurch was next to me in his S6. we opened simultaneously at the same altitude. Like i said im not a math guy, but thats what we did. I dont think 117 is an unreachable number. When I exited my first thought was "OH FUCK" cause i could not see the dz and We live in New England= lots of trees and very few options for outs. I was for sure the whole flight I was landing out. then at five i saw the driveway to the dz and knew i would make it. Lurch and I opened at three the rest of the crew dumped high and made it back, But us two Flew the whole way.

Justin Shorb

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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Justin, if you recall the whole flock was right behind you 2. We all did over 3 mins....Soby and I were right behind you and we did not dump high. I think I was open at 2,800 right over the campfire area. Rick was close by too. Good flight.....and as you remember we had some nice puffies along the way.

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And now that the theadjacking is over, how about that Stealth?
50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

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MONKEY,

We are far from done

And this all relates to the thread, since the stealth is the bastard child of the SM1

J.K.

just trying to figure out Glide ratios. from the looks of the stealth it seems it will have a very similar - L/D capability

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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Nice way to tie your off topic threadjack into the original topic.

Well done.

BTW, who do you think will win the StuporBowl?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

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well, well, welllllllll...... now the numbers are going up.. First 2:45 followed with the peanut gallery chiming in with "We all did over 3 mins". No more a 3K foot opening but now a 2800' opening.... you are going to screw the math up completely. How can we possibly trust these numbers now, nothing firm and obvious dissenting in the ranks of those there. I see this claim morphing to the infamous "7:1 event"

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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The whole flock going at 117mph and doing 3 minutes? This should be called extra straight as opposed to the other popular term these days.

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just trying to figure out Glide ratios. from the looks of the stealth it seems it will have a very similar - L/D capability

Does anyone have the book "Birdmen, Batmen, and Skyflyers: Wingsuits and the Pioneers Who Flew in Them" by Michael Adams? Find a photo of the guy named I think Malaussenna who, as the caption says, first made a ram-air wingsuit. Does it look similar to Stealth, Mach 1, and Sugarglider?

Can we say that his L/D was probably close to L/D of the modern suits?

If not, why?

If yes, how much progress we made in 50 years since that photograph was taken? What exactly is that progress?

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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Quote

Does anyone have the book "Birdmen, Batmen, and
can we say that his L/D was probably close to L/D of the modern suits?
If not, why?
If yes, how much progress we made in 50 years since that photograph was taken? What exactly is that progress?

There is a thread were few Q were sent to you... about the progress..

next...
Listen, all those books u mentioning about WS and flying are the books about falling stable. back than wings were there to provide STABILITY and not the glide at all. The whole skydiving / parachuting was on so early stage that wings were there to help and nothing else than to help to FALL stable...

Regarding the numbers... at such altitude w such mix of wind speed all data falling in to ''may be '' cathegory as well as accuracy of the features and gadgets used...
Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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Regarding the numbers... at such altitude w such mix of wind speed all data falling in to ''may be '' cathegory as well as accuracy of the features and gadgets used...

Exactly!!!

All like i said. thats what we did. I have no reason to make it up. but there are soooo many factors involved that actual data cannot be taken from it. All i really learned was that i could in fact haul ass when needed. Numbers aside, they meant nothing to me on that jump. Because the feeling i had when i landed was one of the best i have ever experienced in skydiving. better than my first jump. And the looks and excitement on all my guys faces was even better. Thats what its all really about.

And yes YURI, That was one flock that even YOU would have been GAY for.

Justin
Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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Me too. When we landed we all said it was one of the coolest jumps we had done. I remember the times because I was thinking how fucked up it was that Soby got 3 mins and he only had 50 or so (maybe a little more?) WS jumps at the time and that the whole flock (5 birds if I recall correctly) had done the same. Anyway, looking forward to a fun '08 once our season starts.

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back than wings were there to provide STABILITY and not the glide at all

But if YOU recreate Maussenna's suit today and YOU learn it as much as you know Stealth, will YOU glide significantly worse in it than in Stealth?

If not, why do you think so?

If yes, what's the progress?

What's your L/D in Stealth?

What would be your L/D in the 50 year old suit?

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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Quote

Quote

back than wings were there to provide STABILITY and not the glide at all

But if YOU recreate Maussenna's suit today and YOU learn it as much as you know Stealth, will YOU glide significantly worse in it than in Stealth?

If not, why do you think so?

If yes, what's the progress?

What's your L/D in Stealth?

What would be your L/D in the 50 year old suit?

make one and check, don't forget heavy boots and basers front reserve... just to be accurate replica.
Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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If yes, what's the progress?

progress is that you most likely will not go in with now days wing suits , while back then I would be 100% certain that you will on very first jump!! Isn't this progress?!

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What's your L/D in Stealth?

Yuri, L/D is different to every jumper /flyer regardless of the same suit they possibly wearing.... human is not rigid profile therefore experiment is way to go , way more than number guessing and dreaming...
Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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human is not rigid profile therefore experiment is way to go , way more than number guessing and dreaming...

I think the term you're looking for is "armchair wingsuiting" with calculator and smoking pipe (results may vary depending on what's in the pipe). Nevertheless a nice way to make wingsuit jumps when it's cold and wintery outside.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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make one and check, don't forget heavy boots and basers front reserve... just to be accurate replica.

That would be a meaningless comparison. We're discussing aerodynamics of wingsuits, not the progress that skydiving gear made in 50 years. It's either both you and Macareena in Razors with Trangos or both of you with chest mount reserves and huge rounds.
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progress is that you most likely will not go in with now days wing suits , while back then I would be 100% certain that you will on very first jump!! Isn't this progress?!

That's definitely progress, but not in wingsuits (if we don't consider those bat-like suits with sticks in them, let's concentrate on Maroccanno's ram-air suit which looks similar to modern large suits). Most of the early pioneers retarded ninjas we going in because of the equipment failure (either parachute or their retarded bat wings or combination of the two), but many were simply retarded ninjas. Cases in point: that tailor who jumped from Eiffel Tower in some kind of oversized coat - why didn't he try to jump from a much smaller height into water first? why he was thinking that he'll fly like a bird? (the answer, I think, is he wanted to earn his R.N.#1 ) When you read Adams book, he talks about some guy who saw an early wingsuit stunt and decided that he absolutely must do it and made a similar retarded suit and made his jump #1 ever - in wingsuit! He survived, though, and made 100 more jumps before retiring. And many other R.N.s and monkeys.
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L/D is different to every jumper /flyer regardless of the same suit they possibly wearing.... human is not rigid profile therefore experiment is way to go , way more than number guessing and dreaming...

I am dreaming right now and that's what I'm seeing:

A gang of Nobel Prize laureates in human cloning sneaked into your tent at Z-Flock&Dock and took a complete snapshot of you. In the morning your clone Robi-2 wakes you up: "Let's flock, brother!" Your exact copy. Same body - down to the same count of hairs on the head and same fingerprints - same brain, same experience, number of skydives and BASE jumps - everything the same! Except for one thing - he developed this Stealth-1960 suit which is exact replica of Macaroni suit. He's as experienced in building suits as you are and has a factory next to yours and his company is called Pheonix-Fly. He wears the same skydiving rig you're jumping with. You are very surprised but put your Stealth on quickly as the load is on a 5-minute call and the judges are waiting.

Who will fly farthest? Robi or Robi-2?

Why?

What's the progress?

Now, the dream jumps to sunny California. Perris. Luigi is swooping his VX39. Luigi-2, his precise replica with the same body and experience, but with 50-year old equipment, lands right next to him on an experimental tiny 39sq.ft. round.

Who will swoop farthest? Luigi or Luigi-2?

Why?

What's the progress?

Have wingsuits made any significant progress in 50 years since the first ram-air, all-fabric, similarly looking wingsuit?

Have canopies made any significant progress in 50 years?

What it is?

And why?

* * *

So, let's do an experiment of the century! You and I and many others are interested in learning, researching, flying, improving wingsuits. So let's COMBINE our efforts and talents. You build a replica of Maussenna's suit. Make it of ZP - if some of the modern materials were not available 50 years ago, it's not his fault, and using better readily available materials is not exactly progress in aerodynamics of wingsuits. I'll improve my Z-Device so it reliably measures L/D.

Then you make jumps in Stealth and M-Suit and we measure your L/D in both.

That would be a fun project! Who wants to participate? Robi? Jari? Tony&Jeff? Nick? Loic? Maria? Underground rebels, the visionaries of the future?

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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dude maybe you should start wanking your dick not your brain.

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you are right - no progress has been made since 1920.
Although, can't really remember that there was some flying 10 years ago were guys & gals were covering some ground distance...
Must be that I don't get it what is progress all about

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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Yah. That was my first chance to really air out the godzilla mod 6, and J, you forgot one crucial bit that thickened the plot: I was packing GPS in my wing so we could back it up if we actually made it. I checked-Marco gave us the green early. 6.2 miles exit to pitch. Proof that lo-speed junkies like myself CAN go far if we really want to. Rick woulda made the distance but the haze deceived him into giving up and deploying seconds before he spotted the driveway in the distance. Sobe pulled like 206 seconds by flying a bit more for fallrate than for drive, which is exactly the kind of thing I'd have done myself if I wasn't flying with your anvil ass which made it visible every time I eased off the gas in the slightest. That flight was EPIC.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread hijack.
-tweet
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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What makes you think that Robi-2 and Robi-1 would get the same L/D on the same equipment leaving the airplane at the same time? what makes you think that Robi would get the same L/D on two consecutive jumps?
You consistently disregard that the wingsuit is continuously changing cross section, due to the adaptive airframe it covers. you could do thousands of flights with the same pilot and suit and never figure out what the true L/D the suit is capable of, because as soon as you put it on a different jumper you have a different adaptive airframe. you can use the results of the thousands of jumps done by one jumper to then figure out if putting a different suit on that adaptive airframe gives better or worse L/D, and if its significantly better, then maybe it will be better when others use it.
I would bet that the reason the best wingsuiters out there are the best, is that their adjustments to the airframe are done subconsciously versus seeing/feeling and reacting for the rest of us.

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so that was fun! how about that stealth....

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

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