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Martini

V-2 alteration

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So I've occasionally thought about adding a little wing area behind the squared-off trailing edge of my V-2, yeah OK I'm a shitty flyer and I'm looking for an easy fix. I'm also 5'-8" 170 lbs and flying with guys 6'-1" to 6'-3" not much heavier than me and jumping bigger surface suits. Flame on if you feel the need. Anyway besides figuring out how to attatch the wing so that it can be cut away another problem has surfaced; I use the BASE PC pouch exclusively and can't figure out how to connect the wing addition to the leg while still getting the BASE pouch to work. All reasonable ideas are welcome, sarcasm is not. And yeah I've been drinking, so what? BTW I'm trying to make the suit more flockable, it's strong point is stability not float.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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I'm also 5'-8" 170 lbs and flying with guys 6'-1" to 6'-3" not much heavier than me and jumping bigger surface suits.



Bigger surface suits than the PF V-2? Which suits are these of which you speak? :o
Costyn van Dongen - http://www.flylikebrick.com/ - World Wide Wingsuit News

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The more flockable option is called "Ghost". Good suit, I flew one a few times last time I was flocking at Lodi.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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I'm also 5'-8" 170 lbs and flying with guys 6'-1" to 6'-3" not much heavier than me and jumping bigger surface suits.



Bigger surface suits than the PF V-2? Which suits are these of which you speak? :o


The Mach1, SuperMach1, PF Stealth, Sugarglider and GS1?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Paul please don't do it.

Making a V-2 a convertible ( slow flight ) is a bad Idea. You may end up ruining the vamp. All of those other suits have thicker airfoils for better slow speed lift than the vamp. You might get a ton of extra drag without the lift you were hoping for. You may just have to have more than one suit. I love my vampire the best its just not the best for everything.

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The Mach1, SuperMach1, PF Stealth, Sugarglider and GS1?



Even S3s, phantoms can be flown slower (forward) than the vampire unless the vampire pilot is an ultra lightweight. It has a sharp stall that lets you know it if you slide off the slow side of its flight envelope. The loss of stability and sinking out on the formation got the earlier V-1 pilots a bad rep as not being experienced to fly such a suit. But the truth was if you put that individual in a floatier suit he got "better" and didn't wash out.

Who do you blame the suit, the pilot or the flock for not flying fast enough?

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Even S3s, phantoms can be flown slower (forward) than the vampire unless the vampire pilot is an ultra lightweight. It has a sharp stall that lets you know it if you slide off the slow side of its flight envelope. The loss of stability and sinking out on the formation got the earlier V-1 pilots a bad rep as not being experienced to fly such a suit. But the truth was if you put that individual in a floatier suit he got "better" and didn't wash out.



I agree. But I was only replying to a question about which suits had measurably bigger surface area than the V2 - not about the relative flight characteristics of every damn suit out there:P
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Who do you blame the suit, the pilot or the flock for not flying fast enough?



Though performance should never be a higher goal then the intended target of a jump (flying a formation) I definitely agree that a lot of flocks could use more speed.

People flying with their legs on their but is nice, but its a bit useless flying 1000 euro suits if we're getting performance most trackers without a wingsuit could match..

But as skills improve, so will the glideratios and freefall times (yeayea..L/D and FF time, not linked...flocking gay...settle down Yuri!:P)

Would make a nice variation on the current glide ratio competitions.
Who can fly a tight 4 way (+ video) with the best glideratioB|
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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Who can fly a tight 4 way (+ video) with the best glideratio



Still gay. Unless you're filming hot women's 4-way. Then you're my hero. ;)
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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I agree. But I was only replying to a question about which suits had measurably bigger surface area than the V2 - not about the relative flight characteristics of every damn suit out there:P



No worries, Mine was a general reply. Somebody else may get the concept that surface area alone does not define flight envelope. And that the early vampire pilots were not all stooges :)although some were.

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I like my V-2 alright, it just doesn't seem to have the performance I thought it would have. I know well enough that I have a lot to learn about flying it well but that can be said about any suit I put on. For lift (float), forward speed, duration and distance I believe that my S-3 out-performed it. I don't have GPS data for this, only a watch, distance over ground, flocking etc. The V-2 is far superior in stability, the S-3 was seriously twitchy by comparison. But other than that the V-2 doesn't seem to have any advantage (other than it fits better than my too-snug S-3, the V-2 also looks great and is built stronger). I haven't had a chance to fly the other suits only GTI, S-3, V-1 and V-2. BTW my impression of the S-6 is that the wing area is larger than the V-2. Also the S-6 shape may cause less arm fatigue with more wing at the body and less at the wingtip. I notice that most new designs with large wing surfaces have smaller tip area and large area close to the body. Airfoil considerations aside this clearly puts less stress on the arms. Not that fatigue is a huge factor but I expect some performance gain for the extra effort I put in flying. At any rate I'd still like to experiment with adding a single-surface curved trailing edge triangle behind the V-2 wing, if it doesn't work out I'll remove it. BTW I'm considering having the new cutaway "hinge" between the new and old wing or even using velcro (shudder) for an attatchment at the body with no need for a second cutaway. I still can't figure out if I can use the existing BASE pouch or if I have to design a new one. Which leads me to wonder if any of the newer suits (S-6, SM-1, Stealth, Ghost etc.) have a BASE PC pouch option? I sure like mine.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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Hi,
I strongly recommend not to put any kind of extensions on the V2.
If you do that, this will result with significant loss of performance. Also, PC pouch is at the sensitive place and messing around this place may give you trouble during pull...
V2 is specifically designed suit. It is very sensitive and require skill in order to get the performance out of it.
That suit flies and it is not made for half commitment. It is of course possible to flock w this suit too. It just need more work with body (hips) than legs (bend knees) If flock has no forward movement than leave the flock.... ;)
Let suit fly and try not to stretch the trailing edge of the arm wing ( classic mistake though which killing Vampire performance )
keep the speed...

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

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It would be interesting if you do this modification and see the difference. The more experimentation, the better! What are you gonna lose? ;)

Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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Thanks Robi, your input means a lot. Apparently my time will be better spent acquiring skill rather than altering the suit. I know I try to overpower the suit, how do you know how much to extend the arm and leg wings? I never get the extra lift I'm looking for by using my hips either, I assume more speed (head low) is the answer to gaining lift. I'm pretty tired of watching everyone fly up and away though.[:/]

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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Have you had someone shoot video of your flying? Are your shoulders rolled forward? Are you flying flat or do you have an arch( something that helps me is if I try and feel my entire rig on back, which will dearch you)? You can also slow your forward speed and slow your horizontal speed by using our Aarons (or taking the handles and turning your hands down towards the ground).
Kirk

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Yuri, I've been tempted to do this mod for a long time, I think I'll hold off until I'm sure my skills aren't what's holding me back as the mod will be a lot of work. Robi obviously has spent time with this and reccommends against.. As Robi mentioned losing control of the PC is a serious issue. A friend who has a highly modified/customized BASE-wingsuit rig has issues with PC pouch placement, not a good thing in either environment.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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I definitely roll my shoulders and fly flat or de-arched, sometimes very de-arched. Turning the handles down really slows forward speed, I noticed early on my tendancy to tense my wrists and drag the ailerons, relaxing my wrists gives a noticeable increase in forward speed. That forward speed gives me lift too. I had hoped to get slower forward speed combined with a slower fallrate using the ailerons but that hasn't worked out for me. Coaching and video would no doubt be a lot of help.

Losing weight would amount to about 5 lbs, not enough make a lot of difference. And I know that the V-2 isn't the ideal flocking suit, I'd like to be able to afford several but that won't happen soon. I 'm looking for increased performance overall in the V-2, I've been generally dissappointed.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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Not to do a this suit vs that suit thing, but it really does sound like you need to examine your flying more than the suit. You probably get better performance out of the S-3 because there is a smaller difference in how flies at 50% and 100% than the V2. You really need to give the V2 85%+ to get it flying, and then it absolutely smokes! Less than that, it's basically off.

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The more experimentation, the better! What are you gonna lose? ;)



A $1200 suit. Not to mention time. Wingsuits are hell to sew on which is why few riggers touch them if a major alteration is required.

Start with a $300 suit or splash a pattern of what you want and try and build one from the ground up ( and you will still have the expensive suit untouched )- but I warned you about time. You, Paul, could probably build a log cabin quicker.

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I'm beginning to think that you're right about improving technique. It took me over 100 jumps on the S-3 to feel like I was getting max performance, I only have 63 on the V-2. I had hoped that experience would translate better, apparently not. One thing I can tell you is that I'm not a lazy flier, I put a lot of energy, strength and concentration into my jumps (not that I never just screw around). If anything I may be trying to overpower the suit instead of finding the more subtle points about flying it. I've never gotten the speed that the suit has a reputation for, Tony R. in his V-2 can easily stay with me in both speed and float, then pull away at will. That points to poor skills on my part not a deficiency in the suit. But altering it someday would be fun though it might not help. I just don't want to replicate work that Robi has done and found to be unhelpful.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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I like my V-2 alright, it just doesn't seem to have the performance I thought it would have. For lift (float), forward speed, duration and distance I believe that my S-3 out-performed it.



Before I dumped my S3, couple of em, I made sure that the vampire outperformed it. I compared against several V-1s across many months to make sure it wasn't just hype. Now Ira on the other hand isn't getting the results I'm getting with his vampire, like you he is struggling and he flys better in his S3 but once he figures it out he is going to kill me like when we're both in the S3.

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I wonder if Jim will let me jump the cabin from his Porter? Seriously time and suit damage are concerns but not enough to stop me if I decide to try, my wife is also a very good seamstress and will probably keep me out of trouble. For the time being I'll focus on improving my skills. But tinkering with things is in my nature, someday I'm bound to try some change to some suit.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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