What competition discplines / records would you like to see in the future?

[unclecharlie95 3]

I am preparing a presentation to try and get wingsuit formations and competition recognized at an official level.

I intend to propose the 3 items in the poll but want to hear what other people in the community think.

Jarno will pitch "freestyle" but as an artistic event has never been conducted I prefer to add it in later.

Thank you for your input,
J

BASEstore.it

[mccordia 73]

Freestyle!

Neh..Thats just a personal project/interest..
But that aside, Id be most interested in setting up some actual bigway camps. Where people are in or out of a formation, selected for their skills instead of the selection criteria 'being a nice guy' or 'owning a pretty suit'.

If you look at how freeflying and its 'true' records have grown in recent years. All we're doing with all the 20/40+ ways is exit-records...

I'd love to see an invitational boogie planned somewhere next summer...spending a whole week working with an A and B pool of jumpers, selecting the best flyers to 'fly' the biggest, baddest formation ever...(and stressing 'fly' as everyone should be a good flyer in that group, and not a group of people freefalling with their legs on their buttocks)

*edited to ad*

So thats my usual lengthy way of saying "Largest flock"
Some official recognised records, instead of people just claiming this and that would rock..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Skyjester 0]

A nice disziplin, which gives also lots of fun is the "Relay Air Race"

Two pilots can start to exercise and a minimum of three can do the competition.
Every pass over counts a point. You can´t give it directly back to the same pilot.
It´s great fun, you don´t need too much skills but a bit of discipline is nessecary.
The relay stick we use is just 30 gr. of weight. The foam balls make it easy to keep it between the fingers even if you have to pull.

It´s also a good training for bigways . . .

don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ?

www.pralle-zeiten.de

[unclecharlie95 3]

It looks like a sex toy but I'd still like to buy one
Are they for sale?

BASEstore.it

[Skyjester 0]

Yes, for sale 10 Euros at

www.fallschirmsport-marl.de

for SkyJester´s WoM winners for free

YOU ARE A WINNER- order one for free . . .

P.S. Every girl who saw one of the JoySticks said exactly the same. Looks like you know what women wants

don´t pester the jester . . or better: WHY SO SERIOUS ? ?

www.pralle-zeiten.de

[hardwings 0]

The relay stick thing might be a good disciplin.
I´ve done it before- it was good fun! and more difficult than I thought

I already got one

DON`T PAY THE FERRYMAN...

[redfox 0]

The problem for me is: how can you compare and measure an item fairly?

- time depends on weight
- speed depends on weight

so distance seems a good point for me!

Relative work? Points per time or altitude range?
Acrobatics: may be too early to judge...

Or should I stay away from competitions with the excuse "I do it just for fun!"

So let us see what the future brings...

Cordially,

Herwig

[sdctlc 0]

That is an interesting 1st thought about weight. I don't 100% agree with it but it is interesting. I can see maybe a heavyweight class but if you start adding in too many then you are like wrestling in that you have a class for every 5-10 pounds. Hell every one can win Just because body style is going to play a factor into performance it is what it is and people adjust to that with a suit that works for their needs... Body style difference is the sort of thing that plays into every active sport to some degree.

Speed and time are related to distance though so I can see that as a good blend event as it will open up to various styles of flight.. Look back at the arguments from 3.0 with the distance challange. My understanding (2nd hand) was that Robi flew much faster then Jeff but Jeff fell slower and was able to eek out a little more distance in the end. Two different styles giving very similar results. Separate from the fatigue talk or one of the many other arguments that came up, the challange proved to be seemingly fair and with a little tweaking could be viable and no I don't have the answers on the tweaking.

Relative work should just be a time from exit, like in FS competitions. I feel, coming from a RW background, that you could work a dive pool and mimic something with WS that would be similar to FS events. The argument would then come into play on what counts or scores. Proximity, Docking? It is something that needs to be played with but I think it can work.

On the big way front that opens a new round of issues. I again from a RW background look at a big formation as slot specific with some requirement of proximity not just we threw "X" out and "Y" got close so it is a new Big way record. I don't like that.

The end result is that talking about the options we have in front of us is fantastic. The discipline is growing and people are looking for the next step to take. I am not a big proponent of "Artistic" events as I think scoring is to open to interpretation..

Just some ramblings and agree "let us see what the future brings..." but I would add don't be afraid to toss your $0.02 in the mix
Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[VectorBoy 0]

For formations how do you define "in the slot"? Grips?

[LouDiamond 1]

You make some good points and are on the right track (IMHO). I have been working this side of the discipline and many of the things you mentioned, like a dive pool, what constitutes being in slot,judging criteria,rules,etc, all of which I have addressed in my concept.

However, as I have addressed before in older threads, as a discipline, wingsuiting is still in its infancy. The skill pool is increasing and we are seeing more skilled pilots from all parts of the globe. We have also seen a few other WS competitions/events over the past few years. All of which is good but we are still a long way from being recognized as a discipline by the FAI. The reality of things is that having WS events/competitions is the easy part, the getting recognition with the FAI/USPA as a discipline is the hard part as it involves several external factors along with the obligatory blocks that must be checked.


Slowly but surely, WS is continuing to move in the right direction for those who wish to see it at Nationals/Worlds one day. Each year our "pool of talent" gets a bit deeper and the events along the way help shape the outcome of the bigger picture. These are glorious days my friends

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[sdctlc 0]

That is the trick. Grips are not as common in WS as I see it and what is more commonly looked for is the proximity. The attached photo is good to demonstrate what I am talking about. Look at the 3 way wedge photo. The person on the right is tighter then the person on the left. With out grips to call the point complete, a level of proximity needs to be considered. Personally I say this is close in terms of a completed formation for a competition with the Rt side flyer being OK but the left needing to be closer. On smaller dives it can be easy to look at the proximity and be a little looser. The problem is that if you take that same attitude and add a few more people that little extra translates to a much more spread out formation. Look at the 2 and a half diamonds pic from a WWW at Lodi awhile back (Thanks to Avery for the pic). The top diamond is pretty tight with the Lft flyer obscenely close. As you look back the formation gets looser and looser and the spread is bigger. The people are "sorta" in the slots but it would be hard for this to be looked at as complete in a competition. Not bad for a fun flock but still would it be competition complete. One more example of formation and proximity could be the 9-way diamond at FnD. Matt posted a great shot showing a good tight formation and I think everyone with out exception would call complete. But if you look at the gallery on his site some of the pics show lots of different locations that though are great, the positions are not nearly as close and nice as the good shot he got.

This is the quandary with Proximity and I know "proximity for points" is contrary to my thinking on "Artistic" events I said earlier about interpretation or judgment having to be applied. It is not optimal but right now, most WS'ers don't have the skill to fly a dock so some level of proximity needs to be permitted. Also it might be harder to get grips on some formation and impossible when you start adding the 3D dives in so requiring them might not even be possible. The rules in RW, though pretty, on a fun RW jump yu often find the group is not concerned as much about complete breaks between points. In competition that is a no-no but who cares for a fun jump. I thik the same thing is going to happen to WS's. This is fun to fly, fun to fly loose and free with out getting our pee-pee's slapped for not taking the correct grip and I am all for that. BUT as the area grows to strive towards more competition or harder rules the "it is close so it is good" thinking has to change.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[elias123 0]

Docks

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[JohanW 0]

Great - we're back to baton passing.

I voted formations, but I'm a belly to earth bigway guy, be it with or without a suit. None of this newfangled artistic stuff.

One word - grips.

OK, another - discipline. In the 'dive the plan' sense.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[VectorBoy 0]

I vote pylon races.

[mfnren 0]

I second that one

[ikenever 1]

Having the competition isn't the easy part. How would you know this? We learn more by having competitions not just talking about them. The FAI wants design and experience. These are some of the nuts and bolts in the matter.

People... never hold back! Design and organize your competition. We will learn and share our success and measure our failures to someday go to the FAI and submit to them a complete package for evaluation.

There are those who talk and those who do.

BJ Alexander

[BlindBrick 0]

fastest horizontal speed

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Having the competition isn't the easy part. How would you know this?

I think you already know the answer to your own question based on the conversations you and I had on this subject a while back. Without a solid foundation to build from, one cannot expect to build a quality product. The devil is in the details and no where(to date) will you find people discussing the details of the often overlooked aspects of competition rules and guidelines. All one has to do is open the rules and regulations book for competative skydiving to see what I am talking about. It's extremely booring to read and full of limitations that back when the rules were written,wern't seen as limitations, but today are. None the less, if a discipline wants to be recognized, they need to follow some of those very same basic guidelines and concepts if they hope to be taken seriously.

Putting something together adhoc for an event is one thing but establishing an A to Z plan for a new discipline requires exponentially more time, energy and resources, especially if your intent is to present it and have it recognized by the FAI and the USPA. How do I know? Because I've put in the time and energy to do it the right way and continue to do so. It is true that we learn more and more from the competitions. However, if the basic blueprint for competitive skydiving isn't followed it's like building a square peg for a round hole and expecting it to fit one day.


You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Waldschrat 0]

How fast are you?

[BlindBrick 0]

Not horribly fast right now. I've had to break to avoid overrunning the 182 I exited from before (both the pilot and I coincidently chose the same heading to RTB), but that's about it. However, I'm still new enough to the sport and my SM1 that my numbers for both horizontal and vertical are improving with each jump.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[subzero 0]

I LIKE THE JOYSTICK

[mccordia 73]

Quote

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

I like horses..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[pierre3636 0]

weirdo

freestyle - ie 2way awith camera

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Tony-tonysuits 0]

I vote pylon races.
---------------------------
I love pylon racing, it was my favorite freefly event, we've been talking about how we can do it, I think flatflyiers with a tandem rig might fall slow enough, they could wear a camera suit to get the fall rate right, 3 "pylons" in a triangle shape, 100 meters apart or more maybe,
we joked about 3 wingsuiters flying clockwise then the racers flying counter clockwise around em can you imagine the closing speed with the pylons, kinda dangerous ah?

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[VectorBoy 0]

How bout two or more wingsuiters towing tubes in a steep downward trajectory, like the atmonauti, to overcome the drag of the tubes. The contestants would have either a timed course for speed or creative block of circling the gates face to tube or performing a trick like barrel rolling-front looping before reversing direction past the gate or tube.

If course this concept is wicked evil dangerous and would get you banned from most DZs. In fact I should be excommunicated just for expressing these Ideas in an open forum.

Oh and I think the tube mouth should have an asymmetrical opening to stay inflated and definitely a cut away. Did I mention the tube cut away?