Super Mach 1

[ScottGray 0]

Can not wait to see what Chris and I can do once our SM1s arrive. Perhaps at F n D 3.5 we can do some GPS runs and compare times / distance / fall rates across the various SM1 pilots.

WSI-5 / PFI-51 / EGI-112 / S-Fly
The Brothers Gray Wing Suit Academy
Contact us for first flight and basic flocking courses at your DZ or boogie.
www.thebrothersgray.com

[hjumper33 0]

Word of caution to potential M1 pilots, dont demo a suit that is too big for you. I thought I would be fine flying someones suit who was only 2 inches taller and maybe 20 lbs heavier. I couldnt max out the suit to comfortably fly, and it was a bit flappy and shaky the whole time and pull time was more than a bit frightening. That being said, I still averaged 44 mph for the jump and was way above the guys who I was with on the jump (I am 6'1 about 165 lbs). A 6'4 200+ friend flew the suit after me and flew it amazingly and instantly was thinking about ordering one. Its got amazing potential, but take it from me, with that much wing, fly one that is the right size!

[chrisgray 0]

Quote

Word of caution to potential M1 pilots, dont demo a suit that is too big for you. I thought I would be fine flying someones suit who was only 2 inches taller and maybe 20 lbs heavier. I couldnt max out the suit to comfortably fly, and it was a bit flappy and shaky the whole time and pull time was more than a bit frightening. That being said, I still averaged 44 mph for the jump and was way above the guys who I was with on the jump (I am 6'1 about 165 lbs). A 6'4 200+ friend flew the suit after me and flew it amazingly and instantly was thinking about ordering one. Its got amazing potential, but take it from me, with that much wing, fly one that is the right size!

That is interesting b/c I have flown Tony's personal Mach 1 many times which is 3 inches longer at the toe and 7 inches longer at the middle of the leg wing than my Aerobat without issues. I obviously could not tension the suit properly to get best glide (excess drag) but I was still able to get a 38 mph vert speed. It was not scary to me during deployment either. It was not flappy at all for me.

Don't get me wrong a suit that is the right length will give the best performance any day.

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[pierre3636 0]

big diff between M1 and SM1 performance for me.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Quote

Jeff will tell you that this wasn't his best glide angle, which came on later dives. He hung it all out and got a pretty good time, but his forward speed wasn't the best.

He can tell you what his position was like for "best glide".

Yup, a 1.7(distance challenge numbers) is hardly worth mentioning these days while talking about big suits. He later posted 2.4 L/D for a 7000' flight(vertical altitude used).

Would like to know what it is these days if he has that data handy.

Kris.

[chrisgray 0]

Here are a couple photos of Tony's orange traffic cone SM1.

The SM1 is slightly tall for me but still flew exceptionally well.

Note the photo of my Tony Aerobat laying on top of the SM1 for reference. Slight size difference!!

WSI-6 / PFI-55
The Brothers Gray Wingsuit Academy
http://www.myspace.com/cgwingsuitpilot
http://www.myspace.com/thebrothersgray

[Zenister 0]

Quote

A 6'4 200+ friend flew the suit after me

hmm thats the size i need... its a bit difficult to find.. felt like crying when i had to give the GTI back i borrowed to try out...

need to get current again before i think about actually buying a wingsuit though...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[pierre3636 0]

yeah - its quite cool walking out to the plane like that with the new zip system. especially in a black suit in the african summer

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[bdrake529 0]

This is for Jeff/Tony or anyone who has a SM1 (or has flown one enough to be familiar with it):

First question: One of the main differences between the standard M1 and the super M1 is that the leg wing has been narrowed and then lengthened in the center, correct? How much was it narrowed by? The stance still seems quite wide on mine and pictures I've seen of other SM1s (including Chris' recent post of Tony's glow-in-the-dark suit). Was the original M1 leg stance really that much wider?

Second question: The center of my leg wing is definitely longer (giving the leg wing's trailing edge a rounded profile), but on the ground, I'm having a hard time understanding the design. When I apply tension span-wise to make the leg-wing taut, the trailing edge of the leg wing curls up towards my body, not only negating the extra length, but apparently creating a pocket of drag. I've yet to flock with another SM1 (or have video of mine) so I don't know how this looks in flight. With the wing inflated, does this trailing edge behave the same way? Or does the rigidity provided by inflation prevent this "curling"? Is it normal that it behaves this way on the ground?

Thanks,

Brian

Brian Drake

[pierre3636 0]

done about 150 on mine maybe bit less and own both M1 and SM1:
1 - it is narrower but slighlty or thats the way it feels - ive been lazy and havent put both suits on the ground and actually compared but its a small diff - its still wider than any other suit out there ive seen except maybe sg1 maaybe i dunno exactly
2 - what happens with the tail as far as i can tell on the SM1 is that the tail goes hard due to the airlocked cells - when the cells are hard and inflated in flight they lie straight next to eachother and the excess material causing the curl is used up to inflate the cells - damn i hope this makes sense feels like im explaining it badly - lets leave the explination to the designers

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[bdrake529 0]

Quote

2 - what happens with the tail as far as i can tell on the SM1 is that the tail goes hard due to the airlocked cells - when the cells are hard and inflated in flight they lie straight next to eachother and the excess material causing the curl is used up to inflate the cells - damn i hope this makes sense feels like im explaining it badly - lets leave the explination to the designers

But you can confirm that un-inflated, the material does "curl" and this is normal as far as you know?

Thanks,

Brian

Brian Drake

[pierre3636 0]

yep

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Tony-tonysuits 0]

the ribs are 4" narrower left to right on the SM1,
and yes when you pull on a curve on the ground it rolls the part past the straight line of tension, but when it inflate's it will not roll, no way,
a perfect flying machine

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[F16Driver 0]

Tony,

I love my new SM1. I ordered the M1 after flying NSEMN8R's M1. Waiting a little bit longer for the SM1 while you did R&D on it was worth the wait. What a smooth flying suit, especially during the deployment phase. For being such a big wing, it is predictable in every phase of flight. I really like the fact that there is no flapping on the leg wing anymore. Keep up the great work. I'll post pics when I get the chance.

"I promise, I will never die."

[Heffro1 0]

yes like tony said when you are on the ground and you pull your legs apart the end of the tail will curl over this is due to the trailing edge being round. When in flight this does not happen at all due to the rock solid inflation of the suits

BUY A WINGSUIT
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Tony Suits
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[Tony-tonysuits 0]

Yes I love mine so much Im gonna go compete, Im going to the First Irish wingsuiting Nationals in Dublin, from there to Geneva to meet up with Tristan Whitmarsh, he just bought an Sm1... then we compete in France past Mt Blanc then to the Italian meet in Arezzo.


life's a bitch aint it

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[bdrake529 0]

6 more flights with my Super Mach 1 this weekend.

I only made one solo, "performance" flight, and was again unable to get a longer flight time than I can with my Acro. But I did make one observation that may explain this. When I roll my shoulders, somehow this pitches me even more head-low and while I perceive an increase in speed, my arm-wings start fluttering and I feel a siginificant drop in pressure under them as though the air was no longer supporting me and the wings were no longer producing lift.

I talked with a few other wingsuiters and the following theories were proposed:

-The angle I'm flying is too steep and therefore the wings lose pressurization due to the air not hitting the arm inlets at the correct angle. I'm skeptical of this due to the airlocks which, at least with the leg wing, seem to keep the wings rock-solid.

-I'm somehow reaching an angle where my leading edge (my arm) is burbling the rest of the wing. I don't know if this is possible, but it sort of made sense.

-At that angle, I'm unable (physically, or just mental discipline) to maintain tension on the wing and therefore it goes slack. Again, I'm skeptical due to the solid airlock system.

I'm curious if someone here recognizes these symptoms and can provide a more confident explanation.

I've only made 4 solo flights with the suit and now realize that I've experienced this issue on all 4 flights. Since this seems to be significantly degrading the clean flight of the suit, it goes a long way to explaining why I can't get freefall times in the range I'd expect from a suit with this much wing area and performance design.

I'm also convinced it's my lack of skill (or at least consistency) while flying by myself (i.e., without a close point of reference) because in the 5 flocking dives I made, the suit blew me away. I had so much more range than the other suits I flew with, I could literally fly circles around them. To be fair, I wasn't flying with super-experienced pilots with high-performance suits (Acro, Classic, Aerobat, Eagle), but the performance difference I experienced compared to flocking with my Acro was immense. When I bought it, I didn't know if the SM1 would be a practical flocking suit, but the range was very flexible. All the way from flying very dirty (but still remaining very maneuverable) in order to dock on others, to punching it out and leaving them in the dust.

I was also pleased to find the suit flys very solid on its back and maintains the same range of performance. Though actually that leads me to another question: what are good techniques to slow down (horizontally) when back flying? I had my legs almost completely closed (as much as the airlocked leg wing would allow me - absolutely no tail flutter btw) and I tried sitting up a bit to use my back as an air brake, but the guy chasing me still couldn't keep up. I couldn't think of anything more to do (in the moment). Tips?

In conclusion, after this weekend, I'm much more satisfied with the suit and was pleased to find it capable of flying well with others while maintaining a range of performance that allowed me to go where I wanted in the flock, when I wanted. I'm optimistic that when I work out the kinks of my "performance" flight position, I'll start to see numbers on solo flights that correspond to the potential of the suit.

Brian Drake

[Tony-tonysuits 0]

maybe you have your arms in the old "Acro" position, when you try to max it out,
I notice at the end of a skydive my arms moving down towards my hips and my head dropping,
I have to get my arms "back up" in position when I feel my head drop, though Ive never had it so low that ive made the arms "flutter"
keeping the arm wing trailing edge tight and not too bowed is the reason your head is dropping, [I guess]
Jeff has some different theories I think ref "max track" Plus Justin said the same thing when he got his SM1 but dialed it in after a few jumps,
Jeff can talk to you also about all the diff back flying positions, he spends a lot of time on his back,
no pun intended

Life is a series of wonderful opportunities,
brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

tonysuits.com

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Quote

-The angle I'm flying is too steep and therefore the wings lose pressurization due to the air not hitting the arm inlets at the correct angle. I'm skeptical of this due to the airlocks which, at least with the leg wing, seem to keep the wings rock-solid.

I agree with this theory.

The leg wing inlet usually (unless you are flying completely flat...When we roll the shoulders, we are reducing the angle of attack of the arm wings and top section of our body and thus reducing drag) is at a higher angle of attack than the arm wings and that may(depending on inlet type) make the leg wing inlets more effective than the arm wing inlets when flying steep.

This is why I asked the question in the Apache thread if anyone has flown the Apache steep...really steep. The same thing you describe can be done on a Phantom.

Just ease off on the steepness and see what happens(Obvious really).

Airlocks will not help when there isn't enough pressure(or dynamic pressure) to force the air into the wings.

A properly inflated arm wing does not need to be tensioned outwards, only forwards(form the leading edge ).

Kris.

[mccordia 73]

You basicaly answer this question yourself saying:

Quote

while I perceive an increase in speed, my arm-wings start fluttering

The wind normaly detaches from the wings a short distance behind the leading edge already. Choosing a steaper angle means the wind starts to attach to the wing. Causing it the flutter and flap, as the wind starts to grab/attach itself to more of the wing on top

You may not have a clean profile/body position, which means the wind never reaches a clean airflow. And keeps the flutter going. But seeing your performance is increasing, you're definately not doing something wrong. You just have to find out how to do it better..

Though writing how it feels helps a bit. Just getting a fellow pilot to follow and video you, or jumping with a good skilled coach, is the only thing that can accurately tell you what you're doing. And what you should or shouldnt change..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[bdrake529 0]

Quote

Just getting a fellow pilot to follow and video you, or jumping with a good skilled coach, is the only thing that can accurately tell you what you're doing. And what you should or shouldnt change..

Agreed. Logistics have prevented this thus far, but I should have video after this weekend to analyze.

Thanks all for the comments/tips.

Brian Drake

[jtholmes 0]

why not just stop writing novels about your stupid big ass wingsuit and see if you can sell it for like $50 before everyone realizes its big and stupid.

[pierre3636 0]

Quote

6 more flights with my Super Mach 1 this weekend.

I only made one solo, "performance" flight, and was again unable to get a longer flight time than I can with my Acro. But I did make one observation that may explain this. When I roll my shoulders, somehow this pitches me even more head-low and while I perceive an increase in speed, my arm-wings start fluttering and I feel a siginificant drop in pressure under them as though the air was no longer supporting me and the wings were no longer producing lift.

I talked with a few other wingsuiters and the following theories were proposed:

-The angle I'm flying is too steep and therefore the wings lose pressurization due to the air not hitting the arm inlets at the correct angle. I'm skeptical of this due to the airlocks which, at least with the leg wing, seem to keep the wings rock-solid.

-I'm somehow reaching an angle where my leading edge (my arm) is burbling the rest of the wing. I don't know if this is possible, but it sort of made sense.

-At that angle, I'm unable (physically, or just mental discipline) to maintain tension on the wing and therefore it goes slack. Again, I'm skeptical due to the solid airlock system.

I'm curious if someone here recognizes these symptoms and can provide a more confident explanation.

I've only made 4 solo flights with the suit and now realize that I've experienced this issue on all 4 flights. Since this seems to be significantly degrading the clean flight of the suit, it goes a long way to explaining why I can't get freefall times in the range I'd expect from a suit with this much wing area and performance design.

I'm also convinced it's my lack of skill (or at least consistency) while flying by myself (i.e., without a close point of reference) because in the 5 flocking dives I made, the suit blew me away. I had so much more range than the other suits I flew with, I could literally fly circles around them. To be fair, I wasn't flying with super-experienced pilots with high-performance suits (Acro, Classic, Aerobat, Eagle), but the performance difference I experienced compared to flocking with my Acro was immense. When I bought it, I didn't know if the SM1 would be a practical flocking suit, but the range was very flexible. All the way from flying very dirty (but still remaining very maneuverable) in order to dock on others, to punching it out and leaving them in the dust.

I was also pleased to find the suit flys very solid on its back and maintains the same range of performance. Though actually that leads me to another question: what are good techniques to slow down (horizontally) when back flying? I had my legs almost completely closed (as much as the airlocked leg wing would allow me - absolutely no tail flutter btw) and I tried sitting up a bit to use my back as an air brake, but the guy chasing me still couldn't keep up. I couldn't think of anything more to do (in the moment). Tips?

In conclusion, after this weekend, I'm much more satisfied with the suit and was pleased to find it capable of flying well with others while maintaining a range of performance that allowed me to go where I wanted in the flock, when I wanted. I'm optimistic that when I work out the kinks of my "performance" flight position, I'll start to see numbers on solo flights that correspond to the potential of the suit.

send me a picture of what you look like in flight - i would like to see how you fly to make the arm wing flutter.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[LouDiamond 1]

Pierre, have you flown with Shaun in his suit since getting your suit?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[pierre3636 0]

no - i live in south africa remember van der merwe - damn thats a nice colour scheme though

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~