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Rai

Cobolt for Wingsuit

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Line twist don't have anything to do with the make of the sail; just do a lazy throw and/or become a little asymetrical and/or perform a trash packing and you may end up with line twist with any brand of canopy. So in this case the Cobalt performed extremely well in continuing to fly straight even with twist and therefore did not go in autorotation. The jumper was able to get out of trouble without cutting away, so, as far as I am concerned, good point for the Cobalt!
As a matter of fact I know quit a few top wingsuiter using this canopy, now known as Radical (from Atair http://www.basetroll.com/)

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Thanks for the info, does the radical require a 1 or 2 size down size such as the Cobalt, im guessing not as the material is now zp? Does the atair radical have the same performance parameters as the cobalt?

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So in this case the Cobalt performed extremely well in continuing to fly straight even with twist and therefore did not go in autorotation. The jumper was able to get out of trouble without cutting away, so, as far as I am concerned, good point for the Cobalt!


I had the same opinion on Cobalt before my first cut-away from a line twist and that was not a wing suit jump. I still love my Cobalt, but I have more respect for her.

Its a bit ground hungry for me at WL 1.6. I think I would jump a bigger Cobalt with wing suit.

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Everyone I know that has jumped a Cobalt canopy with their wingsuit, to include very experienced wingsuit pilots, has had what I call near death or eye opening revelations at some point about their canopy choice and have since changed canopies. I will caveat that statement by saying that there are some people who jump Cobalts without issue and you could easily substitute the word Cobalt with any other mfgrs high end canopy and hear the same story to some degree.

Leroy's video is a good example of what most have encountered even under moderately loaded Cobalts. I have personally watched one come spiraling out of the sky at an incredibly fast rate and by the grace of God alone, that individual is still alive. Like I tell everyone asking about canopy selection, if you have to fly the opening or if the canopy has a tendency to dive or spin up when in line twists, find a different canopy to wingsuit with.If you don't believe me now, you will later,guaranteed.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Using such strong negative words about canopy he has never jumped with or without WS is funny, to say at least.

Cobalt is elliptical canopy and therefore has his characteristics which require extra care.

Elliptical canopy combing w WS usually is more demanding than square. Require bit more care at packing and opening.

Personally I was jumping w Ace, Impulse ( version of Cobalt) , FX , Velocity and Xaos, all well under 90sqft. Curently, I am using Radical 95 sqft, and had no cut away on any of them.

When one asking me about the canopy for WS, I say, use the one which you know the best.

I saw many cut aways in the past w all kind of the canopies. I am very careful on blaming equipment in general. Human error is in majority cases the reason.

Like in other skydiving discipline, body position and packing play most important role than type of the canopy itself. Therefore, make sure to learn how to control flying, pull sequence, and opening process first

Blaming canopy ( especially without experience ) is pointless.
Robert Pecnik
robert@phoenix-fly.com
www.phoenix-fly.com

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Using such strong negative words about canopy he has never jumped with or without WS is funny, to say at least.



Robi,FYI, I have jumped that make of canopy before. So not only do I base my statement on first hand observations of others experiences but also on my own personal ones. Furthermore, please refer back to my previous statment where I specifically pointed the following out:

Quote

I will caveat that statement by saying that there are some people who jump Cobalts without issue and you could easily substitute the word Cobalt with any other mfgrs high end canopy and hear the same story to some degree......like I tell everyone asking about canopy selection, if you have to fly the opening or if the canopy has a tendency to dive or spin up when in line twists, find a different canopy to wingsuit with.If you don't believe me now, you will later,guaranteed.



I am very careful on blaming equipment in general.Human error is in majority cases the reason. ***

I am in agreement with you on the human factor. However, pointing out equipment that displays certain characteristics or tendencies(no matter who makes it) when used by the general cross section of people is in no way placing the blame on the equipment itself, it is merely an observation of how the two work togther. I hope that makes my statement clearer for you now.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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My Katana 97 is my wingsuit canopy. I have 400+ wingsuit jumps on it without fail. I haven't chopped it at all, actually (knock on wood). I've also been lazy an jumped it with my Velo 84 (one rig, two canopies). No issues. I've actually never chopped an open canopy (full or partial) in a wingsuit (two PC-in-tows, though). I also had a good few hundred wingsuit jumps before I started jumping a HP canopy with a wingsuit.

My answer my experience is this: jump what you know. If you know that your canopy will put you into a spinning malfunction with linetwists and you know that you have been having unstable openings or line twists on a square, then you might want to work on your deployments and/or get more used to your canopy without the wingsuit. If you aren't getting line twists on a square/docile canopy on wingsuit jumps, then chances are that you won't get them on your elliptical/HP canopy.

A spinning line twist malfunction is maybe 65% body position, 34% equipment, and 1% God. As long as you have a good deployment, then it's up to bad packing to give you twists. If you remain symmetrical through the opening, even with twists, then it's up to either God being angry with you*, or maybe shift in the harness, to throw it all into a spin.

* Note that God is generally angrier with Velocity pilots. :)

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The majority of my WS jumps are on a cobalt @1.4. I also have a triathalon at the same loading and they behave similar during the opening with wingsuits but the cobalt flys and flares much better once open. I guess you can say its a compromise on planeform.

I also have an H-mod cobalt loaded at 1.6 which was the loading , for me, that things could get wild and I decided that it was not the best choice. Keep in mind it was very good for wingsuiting before I had the H-mod installed.

Some of my friends have small base canopys that will still fit in a two canopy TSO'd container and the whole system is small. Its a great choice but its in the verge of overloading an already small F-111 wing. Its a compromise on canopy performance.

The best choice would be a normal sized base canopy in a base container which we can't do in this country.

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I jump a 95 Cobalt loaded ~1.7 and love the canopy. I've had it relined once and get very good consistent openings.

I do try to take extra care in packing any canopy that I'm jumping with a wingsuit to make sure that everything is neat, clean and even. I am a bit biased with Atair canopies, however, as I love my trolls too! ;)

Happy flights!

Baxter.

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a) yes, same as Cobalt as the size is determined by measuring the intrados instead of the extrados as the other manufacturers do; in addition the exceptional flying characteristics of this sail make it fly and fly and fly, so it said to fly bigger than other canopies of same size, the powerful flare will bring a big smile on your face but it will also dive steeply on front risers action, so careful at not downsizing too much! .
b) actually Radical is not just another name for Cobalt, it has quite a few improvements... the best would be to talk to Stane form Atair to find out about technical details.

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a) yes, same as Cobalt as the size is determined by measuring the intrados instead of the extrados as the other manufacturers do;



A pre Atair-split Cobalt 120 is exactly the same size as a Stiletto 120. Not sure if either company has changed measuring schemes since the split.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

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to chuck
what is the wing loading on the cobalt 75, I ask because I have cobalt 95 WL abut 1.95 to 2.0 (it depend on morning or afternoon) I have abut 550 jump on and thinking abut using it, do compt. cobalt open different than normal cobalt ?
"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

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Hey Al-

How's Cali?

Here’s what I do for deployment… I symmetrically bring both arms in and keep my legs straight but close the leg wing. This is to decrease the burble and to ensure that your feet and leg wing don’t interfere with the deploying canopy. Then I throw the pilot chute hard and symmetrically into clean air and re-close my arm wings. If I’m low on a w/s base jump I add a couple of screams in for good measure. Seems to help somehow. ;););)

Baxter.

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Hello Ted, here is a quote from Atair Radical manual:
"The Radical is available in six precisely scaled sizes: (Note – Atair measures surface area by measuring the span x chord of the bottom skin. Stane Krajnc, the designer of the Radical feels that this measurement best represents a flying canopy)
* 95 ft.2 = PIA spec 100 ft.2
* 100 ft. 2 = PIA spec 105 ft.2
* 105 ft. 2 = PIA spec 110 ft.2
* 120 ft. 2 = PIA spec 130 ft.2
* 135 ft. 2 = PIA spec 145 ft.2
* 150 ft. 2 = PIA spec 160 ft.2 "
I was surprised when I first jumped the 135 Radical as it looked the same size as my previous, a BT50 (which is said to be about 150 sq.feet)... The BT50 remains for me a master sail (dispite all the bad publicity about hard opening; for me not harder than with the Sabre, just brisk and conforting as you know straight away that you are under a perfectly flying canopy) although the big difference is in the phenomenal flare power of the Radical... so my next one will probably be a Radical 120!

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