Help with wingsuit competition

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Stinky freeflyers only WISH they could backfly like we do.

[OmarPR 0]

Well personally, I wish this could all be done without it being so stiff and technical and black and white. With some structure and rules of course, but not so many. Kind of like surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, BMX, etc. Why not make it "colorful". IMHO I think it should be done more for fun and let it evolve from there. I believe that giving a bunch of technical rules to something so new that very few people are doing would discourage and intimidate anyone (newbie) wanting to try it. Again, personally I would care more about the fun of it than the prize (although winning a prize would be nice ).

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[normiss 622]

I think you and Jarno have the right idea to do this....
We need to agree on a few things to score it properly.
Name of manuever, points for manuever (type of judging and/or number of judges too?), difficulty ?, exit altitude, break off / deployment...other than that isn't it straightforward enough? Like Chuck said, he either did it or he didn't, so there should be no grey areas, simply perform as many manuevers as your team can complete in the dive time.
If ice skaters can figure out a way to score that surely we can come up with something.
Of course we will have to bring some gold stars so Omar can get an award...trophy...you like trophies?

this message was not meant to offend anyone...not even Omar.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Well personally, I wish this could all be done without it being so stiff and technical and black and white.

As would I. However, when you decide to call or designate something as a competiton where people are vying for 1,2, 3rd place, be it for a medal or just to say who took what place, there needs to be rules and regulations. Especially when it comes to judging, judges, and scoring criteria. To not have a clear delineation of what the rules are and to award places is a recipe for disaster and will actually be detrimental to people wanting to become involved if they feel they are not getting a fair shake.

By doing it right from the onset and having defined rules and criteria that is available to all the participants before the competion, it provides a structure that removes any doubt and ensures that everyone participating or judging is held to the same standards. By doing so, it adds legitimacy to the event and the awarded places handed out. Doing it any other way simply makes it a boondoggle that is subject to the whims of those scoring the event or subject to interpretation by both judges and competitors. All of the other sporting events you mentioned have a set of rules and scoring criteria yet they remain "colorful" as you put it. If the idea is for it to be strictly for fun, then perhaps the best way to handle that situation would be to allow the audience to determine who the winner is by show of their clap/vote etc. As soon as you add a prize or call it a competition there needs to be rules or someone will walk away feeling they were cheated.That is simply the nature of competative events.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[OmarPR 0]

If you read after the sentence you just quoted, I talk about the same thing you are saying here: "...With some structure and rules of course, but not so many..." -Omar

"...perhaps the best way to handle that situation would be to allow the audience to determine who the winner is by show of their clap/vote etc." -Scott Campos

This is exactly the same (alternate) idea that I had in mind but didn't bother mentioning. I think it would be a good temporary idea, at least until this type of event/competition evolves and matures.

As the other sporting events I have mentioned as examples, they too evolved in a similar way, as a "fun" event/competition judged by their peers or an audience. I know because with the exception of snowboarding (done only once), I have practiced, competed and followed these sports since back in the day (old school).

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[mccordia 73]

I think (at the moment) the thing we shouldnt do, is try and come up with THE set of rules online.
A long thread with suggestions, and letting everyone come up with his own rules, is all we need right now....

I know that when we run our small event later this year, we will try and use what we think works. And take things other people learned organising this kind of thing into account.

But I think everyone organising a contest in the way he/she sees fit wil help in seeing what works and what doesnt.

And a few more years down the road, when we start to develop more in that area its time for a real set of rules used for every event...but for now...have fun and play!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[unclecharlie95 3]

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"...perhaps the best way to handle that situation would be to allow the audience to determine who the winner is by show of their clap/vote etc." -Scott Campos

The roller pigeon round of the 2006 Stupino event was judged this way - simple and effective

BASEstore.it

[mccordia 73]

I think the clap/vote thing works well, but for a competition where true points/moves are flown, most (if not all) judging could be done by just awarding points for each move, based on its technical difficulty.

This prevents people from bringing 70 friends to help in the "voting"

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[OmarPR 0]

" I think (at the moment) the thing we shouldn't do, is try and come up with THE set of rules online.
A long thread with suggestions, and letting everyone come up with his own rules, is all we need right now....

I know that when we run our small event later this year, we will try and use what we think works. And take things other people learned organizing this kind of thing into account.

But I think everyone organizing a contest in the way he/she sees fit will help in seeing what works and what doesn't.

And a few more years down the road, when we start to develop more in that area its time for a real set of rules used for every event...but for now...have fun and play!" -Jarno

"...Stupino event was judged this way - simple and effective" -James

I think that is a great idea. Jarno and James, maybe you guys can start a new sticky thread like the WS FAQ with base rules. I will be more than glad to help. Then we can run small trial events and compare their effectiveness. If you guys want to do this and want my help PM me.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

I think (at the moment) the thing we shouldnt do, is try and come up with THE set of rules online.....But I think everyone organising a contest in the way he/she sees fit wil help in seeing what works and what doesnt.

I agree completly that whatever rules are decided on today will need to continue to evolve as the sport develops more. Otherwise, you end up with rules that may actually hamper the competitor at a later date. My point is that what we do today, be it you , me, anyone, who has a competition needs to have at least a basic set of rules to start with and through trial and error, what works the best will eventually be discovered. However, we shouldn't try to re-invent the wheel when there already exists a fairly extensive model that has been tested for years and whos shortcomings are already known that can be adapted and used for our needs.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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This prevents people from bringing 70 friends to help in the "voting"

Almost everything in life is a popularity contest .

Kris.

[pierre3636 0]

Well we will let you know how our competition goes we have 3 teams so far for a friendly exhibition competition at nationals ... it should be good - we will try get the footage of the rounds on the web too for you guys to see how its was judged.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

great! Show us what you got!

[pierre3636 0]

erm ... in two weeks its the comp and patience is not my virtue

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~

[Professor 0]

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My short ass is simply not built for it. Now backflying for distance; I would REALLY love to participate in that one.

That's crap dude, being short is not a disadvantage. Jeff won our zhills distance contest as the shortest flyer in the finals, and I know plenty of people shorter than me who can outglide me, and I can outglide plenty of taller people than me. Also, if your short ass is at a disadvantage on your belly, howcome you're not at a disadvantage on you back? The only reason you aren't great at gliding is because you don't ever practice it.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I didn't say I sucked, Ted, I just said I was not made for it. I have plenty of glide, I just knew I was not going to beat either Robi or Jeff so I sat that event out. A man must know his limitations. And yes, it's because I do backfly so much that I am not at any disadvantage.

[mccordia 73]

I wasnt built for it. Im too short, too fat, too stubby, my suit is the wrong brand. How often do you hear these kind of comments in freefly or RW contest when someone doesnt come in 1st?

Its definately time for a wingsuit contest/sub-dicipline where people have no excusses and reason not to perform well, but their own flying skills..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[xwind 0]

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Its definately time for a wingsuit contest/sub-dicipline where people have no excusses and reason not to perform well, but their own flying skills..

Yes! well said.
Hang time and distance are individual events. I get bored when I fly alone.
And you cant practice this in a wind tunnel so we can compete on an equal basis.

Looking forward to jumping with you guys at Schaffen!

Wingsuit South Africa