Help with wingsuit competition

[xwind 0]

We want to organise a Wingsuit Competition as part of the South African National skydiving championships.

We have decided that it should be an aerobatic competition. The reason is that it is easier to judge and not as equipment dependent as distance or hang time.

Please download the competition document from www.wingsuitsa.za.net and give us some feedback.

If you don’t want to see the website use this direct link:
www.wingsuitsa.za.net/newsimages/ws.pdf

Wingsuit South Africa

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Actually, it's very easy to do time aloft and distance judging. We just did it at Flock and Dock 3.0

All you need are exits from a known point perpendicular to the flight path, a couple of people on the ground a sufficient distance downrange to watch ends of flights and openings, and Neptunes.

Do you have any aerobatic wingsuiters in ZA? I am being serious here. Even if you do, do you have people capable of staying with them to get video? Again, I think it's quite easy to judge distance and time aloft.

Chuck

[mccordia 73]

Cool to see we're not the only ones liking that flying aspect more then the number-crunching..cant wait to see video on your event!

We have a simular contest planned in Belgium at the end of the season.

We also decided to limit the working time to exit and seperation altitude.
A simple protrack video overlay makes judging of the breakoff altitude easyer. Its up to the team to decide how to fly. Better flying teams get more working time, faster falling teams have less (but may get docks and other manouvres in easyer)

As for figures per round, we have two kinds of figures/points. docks and formations, and we try to put 4 figures in each round.

We thought about having several dives to choose from (much like ice-skating) so people can decide what they want to fly.
And giving each figure a vallue.

Any dock or formation would be worth 1 point. but people could choose between the dive flown on their belly, or with backflying (with backflying getting a higher point vallue)

Lots of cool things to do and come up with in this arena!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mccordia 73]

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Do you have any aerobatic wingsuiters in ZA? I am being serious here. Even if you do, do you have people capable of staying with them to get video?

Thats also the reason we have decided to not even try such an event untill the end of this season.

We already have 3 teams that are willing to compete, and capable of

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Again, I think it's quite easy to judge distance and time aloft.

For us, the reason to organise such an event is to try a different direction (sadly this event didnt succeed at stupino earlyer)

But seeing the rise in overal skill the past year, I have no doubt sucha a contest at a small scale could work out well.

We did think about making it possible for people to fly 2 ways, and maybe loan some other teams cameraman (if needed)

Allowing people to pick figures in different dificulties (according to their skill and level) or setting up dives with one static flyer and one active (more skilled) flyer will also allow more people to compete..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Artistic events are great when you have enough qualified people in your pool of participants. Perhaps we will add one to our other events at FnD 3.5 or maybe even at SkyFlock this summer. The problem with artistic events, though, is that judging can vary wildly. At this stage, I believe that you would be better off if you used a more deliberate method, like Jarno is talking about. X amount of points per completed move/dock, with no "style" points.

Chuck

[normiss 622]

Very cool! I like the idea of creative flying for scores a lot! Jarno has some awesome comments too!
How is one judged for no contact flying manuevers?

[mccordia 73]

distance in no contact figures, would be one body-length (in vertical formations) and one body width (wingtip to wingtip) in flat formations.

Both quite easy to judge (which means the camera flyer does have to work to get the angles right!)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[OmarPR 0]

"Cool to see we're not the only ones liking that flying aspect..." - Jarno

I second that.

I have been trying to do the same thing here for the last few years, but unfortunately there has always been a certain lack of serious interest and/or skill. There are many very good WS pilots here, but only a handful have enough skills to fly acrobaticly, and out of that handful only a couple have a real interest to do this "exclusively".

Like Chuck said there is another issue: having a video pilot skilled enough to stay close to the acrobats. One thing I thought of (would only work for style) is to have smoke and be judged from the ground .

I will update the tips and tricks section on our WS Acrobatics website team O zone - Tips & Tricks ASAP. (I wish I didn't get so lazy on it.) It would probably give you some ideas.

I wish I could afford to go to these events to either compete or video or both. Maybe someone can sponsor me (hint, hint) You know who you are . If you are interested PM me
DISCLAIMER!!!
As far as I know I have not intentionally offended anyone in this post. If for some reason someone is offended, well, you know what to do .

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[LouDiamond 1]

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but unfortunately there has always been a certain lack of serious interest and/or skill.

Even at this point in time, this is still one of the cruxs in the whole wingsuit competition scene that has kept it from developing into something that can be considered a viable competative event. Once this changes, there might be a chance to actually have it recognized. Even then, an artistic wingsuit event will have the same problems that artistic events in regular skydiving currently have. However, it is good to see that others are willing to continue to move forward with this idea. In the end, if people have fun doing it and it forces people to become better flyers, it's a win win situation IMO.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[normiss 622]

I will be there this weekend.
drag your ass to z-hizzie.
we will jump...and find others too.
we shall not flock.
we shall not race.
we shall not zoom.
we keep saying this...let's do it!

since last summer when you, Matt, and I did a few acrobatic jumps we haven't done squat...now all of our lives are in somewhat more order than they were...acrobatics are a priority, understand????

[OmarPR 0]

Wether or not Matt goes, I will do my best to be there. Call me or I will call you to plan it out.

At F&D I only did ONE two way acro jump (with Ted). Next year's F&D you better not be "working". As Matt will be "working" there as well, I will need a "full time" acro partner.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[normiss 622]

fucking tandems...

hmmm...someone help me build a tandem wing suit set up!

[OmarPR 0]

I am really not concerned with official wingsuit (or ws competition) recognition (at least not right now). I am however, concerned with certain wingsuit interests (outside of what wingsuiting currently is). Although fun, I personally don't really care about "official" competition as most people would. I think though, that competitions would create awareness thus creating a growing interest of "creative flying".

I guess I would just have to be patient and wait where all this goes. In the mean time I would have to do my part and have fun while doing it .

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[The111 0]

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Wether or not Matt goes, I will do my best to be there. Call me or I will call you to plan it out.

If my sinuses clear up I'll see you guys on Saturday. Omar I might even jump with you for free.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[xwind 0]

We have only a few aerobatic wingsuit pilots in South Africa, but enough I hope to put together a competition.

The aerobatic moves proposed in the document are easy to judge. We have added one free round that will be difficult to judge but we figure we can learn from that.

Do the routines, post the video.

Wingsuit South Africa

[OmarPR 0]

"Omar I might even jump with you for free" -Matt

You mean you're not going to pay me?

"If my sinuses clear up I'll see you guys on Saturday." - Matt

Are you sure the problem is your sinuses or your head getting bigger?
Just kidding. I hope you get better bro. Let us know.

DISCLAIMER:
JUST KIDDING!!! EVERYONE RELAX!!!

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[mccordia 73]

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The aerobatic moves proposed in the document are easy to judge. We have added one free round that will be difficult to judge but we figure we can learn from that.

I have a document (among many, many other writings and ideas about this dicipline) with some idea's for rules and ways to handle our artistic event (not really about winning, just about fun and creating awareness that there is more then just speed and time). Some bits and pieces:

Awarding points (which would also easely apply for a free round btw)

- formations flown without docks (both flyers in slot*, held for 4 seconds) - 1 point
- formation with a dock (held for 4 seconds) - 2 points

- formation with one backflyer (both flyers in slot*, held for 4 seconds) - 2 points
- formation with 2 backflyers (both flyers in slot*, held for 4 seconds) - 2 points
- formation with 2 backflyers docked, 3 points

- Succesful linked transition (frontloops/backloops/rolls) - 3 points

* definition of being in a slot
Both flyers either on level (in flat formation) or perfectly above eachother (in stacked formations) within pre-described distance of 1 person width or height

We want to give people 4 'moves/formations' per jump, so its also interesting visualy, and not just a repetition of 1 dock.

As sayd before, you could account for teams with less experience by making two dive-pools, and allowing people to choose. With the 'experienced' divepool having more difficult maneuvres to pull off, but also more points to be earned in that one (look at ice/figure-skating and the way they award points)

- Next to the points for the formations, we want to give each time 1 to 5 points for the creative camera flying (which could be abandoned, should teams have to share camera-flyers)
- And 1 to 5 points for style (how smooth they fly, how clean docks are etc)

Points can be flown out of the door, as long as they are held for the prescribed 4 seconds (a slap on a hand or arm doesnt count as a dock)

Feel free to use or change whatever you like for your competition rules!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[KrisFlyZ 0]

When wingsuiting gets there, tight flocks with transitions will look really nice.

Kris.

[xwind 0]

Cool idea.

We can definitely use that to judge the free round.

Wingsuit South Africa

[OmarPR 0]

"...competitions would create awareness thus creating a growing interest of "creative flying". -Omar

"...artistic event (not really about winning, just about fun and creating awareness that there is more then just speed and time)." -Jarno

Once again, we're on the same page .

"...we want to give each time 1 to 5 points for the creative camera flying (which could be abandoned, should teams have to share camera-flyers)" -Jarno

Here is a thought:
How about giving camera flyers (shared or unshared) their own category within the competition and awarding them individual points for their own creative flying. I know that some camera flyers would like that.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[LouDiamond 1]

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Here is a thought:
How about giving camera flyers (shared or unshared) their own category within the competition and awarding them individual points for their own creative flying. I know that some camera flyers would like that.

Check out the current rules for artistic events and the way it is scored. As it is the camera flyer is scored for each round along with the competitor and his(cameraman) score counts for 30% of the overall score. Likewise, a scoring criteria exists for the cameramans flying/moves performed. However, if the cameraman for team A maxes out his possible points as a cameraman but the overall score is less than team B, even if the team B cameraman scores lower, team B is still the winner.


In other words, an artistic event should be looked at as a 2 person team even though only one person appears in the video.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mccordia 73]

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In other words, an artistic event should be looked at as a 2 person team even though only one person appears in the video.

We're talking 2 performers, 1 cameraman..
So that would be a 3 way team

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

In other words, an artistic event should be looked at as a 2 person team even though only one person appears in the video.

We're talking 2 performers, 1 cameraman..
So that would be a 3 way team

Same criteria could be applied, just like freefly teams with 2 flyers and a cameraman.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

...and all the biased/skewed judging that goes along with those events....

Again, while "artistic" events are clever, I believe they ought to be judged "technically." Black and white, yes he did it or no he didn't do it. Otherwise you might as well just go ahead and give the prize to the most popular team. Personally, I don't want to be compared to a figure skater or a stinky freeflyer. I will, however, gladly participate in any version of competition that evolves. Everything other than distance covered that is. My short ass is simply not built for it. Now backflying for distance; I would REALLY love to participate in that one.

[VectorBoy 0]

Now backflying for distance; I would REALLY love to participate in that one.

Carefull that sounds like something a stinky freeflyer would do.