havensiangst 0 #1 March 4, 2007 Is there any people here who use full bodyprotection in wingsuitBASE, i always use a bodyjacket,protectionshorts,kneegards all from dainesse and of course a helmet when i BASEjump..i also using a hillarius big canopy(301squarefoot) loaded 0.54.. I have just bought a S-FLY expert suit..and im planing to use it for BASE after som practicing from plane..i feel naked without all this protection when i BASE..but i only use helmet in skydiving.. I have flewed wingsuit before but only in skydiving.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #2 March 4, 2007 No, I have not seen anyone wear full body protection when jumping a wingsuit or tracking. Kneepads(with shingaurds) Back Protector and Helmet is the most that I have seen. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #3 March 4, 2007 Isnt the body protection mostly for object strikes? If you fly your wingsuit well, proximity to objects should not be a problem. But maybe Im just looking at it too simple.. With the tight fit of a wingsuit, wearing body protection underneath could limit your range of movement when all zipped up (maybe even affecting the speed at which you unzip) But this is all just pure speculation on my behalf. Robi/James/Vesa etc are probably the right people to ask this question..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #4 March 5, 2007 QuoteIf you fly your wingsuit well, proximity to objects should not be a problem. You're aware that one potential definition of "flying your wingsuit well" is flying it close to objects, right? Just as parachutes were originally designed to slow our descent, swooping has allowed us to do exactly the opposite (approach the ground faster, intentionally), because it looks cool and is fun. And wingsuits were recognized for their utility in the BASE environment as a means of creating more separation from the object, and yet proximity flying allows exactly the opposite, because it looks cool and is fun. Note that I am not criticizing swooping or proximity flying (or looking cool and having fun), just making an observation. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #5 March 5, 2007 QuoteYou're aware that one potential definition of "flying your wingsuit well" is flying it close to objects, right? Yea...but if you hit something in your wingsuit while flying close to an object, no amount of body armour is going to help you And if you want to flying close to objects, risking almost hitting them the whole way down, and then open close to them, again risking a hit (while your arms are wrapped up in sleeves, sligly delaying your reactiontime in avoiding impact/collision) you already seem to be on the far end of the risk-scale. And no amount of body armour is going to help you 'feel safe' (as the post quoted before it was edited) If you want body armour for added protection, cool...but if its the thing you need to give you a (false?) sense of security because you feel naked without it........? But a discussion on this subject is already on the way in the baseforums I guess..back to the original thread...lots of body armour under a wingsuit, can it be done? I know 2 layers of extra sweaters/clothing worn underneath my wingsuit (in the winter) already make me look like a stuffed toy, and limits me in my movement..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #6 March 5, 2007 QuoteIs there any people here who use full bodyprotection in wingsuitBASE... I've seen a couple people do it. You're going to have to size the wingsuit for all the protection, which will make performance suffer when practicing from planes. In general, it's pretty rare. You can get away with just the really critical stuff (like the spine protector) fairly easily, though.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #7 March 5, 2007 Maybe im thinking to much about everithing who could happen(lowpull,objectstrike like a building,tensionknot,landing in trees..just for mention few thing)...This false sense of security get me more relaxe when im on the edge..i have had 2 objectstrike in a row couple a years ago..and after this "episodes" im getting real scared of height..its getting better now..and maybe after a while im gonna take off all this plastic thing..and buying me a lighter and smaller canopy for this purpose(bigwalls jumping) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unclecharlie95 3 #8 March 5, 2007 QuoteIf you fly your wingsuit well, proximity to objects should not be a problem. But maybe Im just looking at it too simple.. In general wingsuit BASE jumpers don't wear protection (other than helmet) because as Jarno points out, object separation is not an issue and you can choose your landing area more easily. Once you have some wingsuit experience the risk of object strike becomes reduced. Even when people fly proximity they allow altitude to get separation from the wall. Pads are still a good idea if the landing area is bad. Like Tom says, fitting full body amour under a suit would require the suit to be sized accordingly. The low profile mountain bike pads work best, with incorporated knee & shin for the legs. For tracking you see a lot of people wearing pads under their P&J / smoke pants. JBASEstore.it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #9 March 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf you fly your wingsuit well, proximity to objects should not be a problem. But maybe Im just looking at it too simple.. In general wingsuit BASE jumpers don't wear protection (other than helmet) because as Jarno points out, object separation is not an issue and you can choose your landing area more easily. Once you have some wingsuit experience the risk of object strike becomes reduced. Even when people fly proximity they allow altitude to get separation from the wall. Pads are still a good idea if the landing area is bad. Like Tom says, fitting full body amour under a suit would require the suit to be sized accordingly. The low profile mountain bike pads work best, with incorporated knee & shin for the legs. For tracking you see a lot of people wearing pads under their P&J / smoke pants. J My protection are in a lowprofildesign with mesh and is quit light as well, and it`s very "movable". I have use it alot in tracking..i use a XL..PF pants with a rainjacket (Medium), and i put a "rubberband" from tumb to tumb and it kicks ass.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HN1 0 #10 March 5, 2007 I was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. The way i look at it is the less weight you have on a canopy the more prone the end cells will be to not inflating which could create a twitcher opening. I think this effect would be multiplied on slider up jumps. Im just thinking this becasue i have jumped 370 sq ft canopys with an exit weight of around 210 lbs and most the time the end cells do not evenly pressurize. and i would think for wing suit base you would want a little heaver wing loading becasue of the horazantal openings. Tell me what you guys think. And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later RyanSkydiving is borring!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #11 March 5, 2007 ''horizontal'' opening does NOT effect the heading performance Ryan. It is relative wind to the canopy so canopy has no clue that you ( maybe ) moving forward, canopy just feel the air.W full armor your WS performance will be worse than without.Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #12 March 5, 2007 QuoteI was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. Yes. If I understand your question correctly, it's pretty off topic, but in brief: My experience has been that heading performance begins to degrade noticeably on slider down BASE canopies at wingloadings around .65 (unvented canopies) and .5 (vented canopies). I highly recommend bottom skin inlets if you are going to drop your loading below .65 or so, but then again, I'd pretty much recommend them for all slider down BASE. Note that my firsthand knowledge on this is all pretty much slider down, non-wingsuit. I've got no idea what happens when you throw that slider thingy around your lines. Robi is correct about the opening not really caring if it's horizontal or vertical. The opening just happens in the relative wind--which direction the relative wind is blowing through the opening is irrelevant (or rather, always the same, if you prefer).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #13 March 5, 2007 QuoteRobi is correct about the opening not really caring if it's horizontal or vertical. The opening just happens in the relative wind--which direction the relative wind is blowing through the opening is irrelevant (or rather, always the same, if you prefer). Yes, but there is the "pendulum effect" which can be both disorienting and time-consuming, i.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #14 March 5, 2007 Quote Yes, but there is the "pendulum effect" which can be both disorienting and time-consuming, i.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase? 7 cells and lighter wing loading is the difference...it is harder to get line twists on these canopies. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #15 March 5, 2007 QuoteI was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. The way i look at it is the less weight you have on a canopy the more prone the end cells will be to not inflating which could create a twitcher opening. I think this effect would be multiplied on slider up jumps. Im just thinking this becasue i have jumped 370 sq ft canopys with an exit weight of around 210 lbs and most the time the end cells do not evenly pressurize. and i would think for wing suit base you would want a little heaver wing loading becasue of the horazantal openings. Tell me what you guys think. And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later Ryan Are you serious?? getting out of the sport because i use bodyprotection... Do you think feks. freeskiiers are stupid because they use protection when they dropping cliffs..ore maybe motocrosspilots..i know how it is to lay at a hospital for 4weeks with almost every bone broken in my body..think alitle more outside the box before you post something stupid like this WTF... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #16 March 6, 2007 Quotei.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase? Normally, no. On a BASE canopy it's more likely that the canopy would maintain heading and you would spin underneath it. The majority of BASE line twists are caused by the motion of the jumpers body (spinning) under a steady (maintaining heading) canopy.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites greeny 0 #17 March 6, 2007 My Skyflier- 3 was sized to accommodate a full set off dainesse armour (Pro Shuttle suit). Why should wingsuit BASE be any different, bad landing areas and object strikes are still all very available (depending on what and how you choose to fly) Yes if you always flight straight away from the wall and always pull high enough, you will more than likely have a good available landing area. But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? You try to prove you can out fly the fford, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your armour, on all the jumps you don’t take your armour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want armour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. All that said I have never jumped my full armour on a wind suit BASE jump, but there have been more than a few jumps where I have been regretting that decision right after opening. 180 Wingsuit skydives and 35 wingsuit BASE jumps in, I am very happy with the sizing of my suit. I have never been knowingly out flown just because my suit is a little baggy. The only time I found my armour helped by tightening my suit was on wingsuit speed dives (max vertical speed out of a plane) but maybe on those jumps I just found a slightly better body position. You do get funny looks putting it all on when it is 110 degrees at the DZ. If you size the suit and armour right you will not find you movements limited, if you practice your pulls / unzips you will find it takes no longer to do. There are jumpers out there who don’t helmets, because it doesn’t look / feel cool. Some of these jumpers have told me that if I feel I need all my armour I shouldn’t be jumping those objects. My answer “I want to jump those objects” My level of armour varies object dependent, but it is very nice to have it with you and be able to make that choice as you leave the car What is my point? If you want to jump your armour, then jump it. Have the courage to make you own decisions and do what you feel is right, what ever the herd says. Test jump your suit fully kitted and if you like the way it feels at the DZ then go fly. Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites greeny 0 #18 March 7, 2007 Quote: [And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later Ryan] Ryan do yourself a favour sand save yourself the embarrassment of more people reading this. Remove you own post! Sorry you can't do that because we just quoted it for you!! opps. I like my full face, I am on my 3rd I broke my last 2 on lonly landing areas soloing in the dark. I like my back protectors walking away after landing flat on your back on rocks is a realy nice feeling. I like my knee pads, I have walked away on countless occasions with nothing more than holes in my trouses from steep rocky landing areas, hard landings on uphill roads, and the odd fountain. You can't back your canopy out from a wall you just hit if you are unconscious or your knees and elbows are brocken. But hay what do you care that is just my two cents, take it for what its worth Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #19 March 7, 2007 QuoteMy Skyflier- 3 was sized to accommodate a full set off dainesse armour (Pro Shuttle suit). Why should wingsuit BASE be any different, bad landing areas and object strikes are still all very available (depending on what and how you choose to fly) Yes if you always flight straight away from the wall and always pull high enough, you will more than likely have a good available landing area. But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? You try to prove you can out fly the fford, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your armour, on all the jumps you don’t take your armour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want armour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. All that said I have never jumped my full armour on a wind suit BASE jump, but there have been more than a few jumps where I have been regretting that decision right after opening. 180 Wingsuit skydives and 35 wingsuit BASE jumps in, I am very happy with the sizing of my suit. I have never been knowingly out flown just because my suit is a little baggy. The only time I found my armour helped by tightening my suit was on wingsuit speed dives (max vertical speed out of a plane) but maybe on those jumps I just found a slightly better body position. You do get funny looks putting it all on when it is 110 degrees at the DZ. If you size the suit and armour right you will not find you movements limited, if you practice your pulls / unzips you will find it takes no longer to do. There are jumpers out there who don’t helmets, because it doesn’t look / feel cool. Some of these jumpers have told me that if I feel I need all my armour I shouldn’t be jumping those objects. My answer “I want to jump those objects” My level of armour varies object dependent, but it is very nice to have it with you and be able to make that choice as you leave the car What is my point? If you want to jump your armour, then jump it. Have the courage to make you own decisions and do what you feel is right, what ever the herd says. Test jump your suit fully kitted and if you like the way it feels at the DZ then go fly. Greeny Thank you for putting a better words on it than i do.. This is exactly what im thinking about..alright.. maybe i get a less "powerfull" flight with all this "crap" on me plus the big container on my back..but atleast i have a better chance to do the jump again if the shit hits the fan..this is what`s count for me..i don`t compromissed on safety..it will always comes first for me... Stay safe jump again tomorow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #20 March 7, 2007 ------------------------------------------ But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? ----------------------------------------- -If you worries about this than better avoid this wall and train till you get the performance and exit tuned 100%. the progress goes step by step and must be based on personal ability, not on a personal ''wish factor'' only!! ------------------------------------- You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? ------------------------------------- -Make decision on time is much smarter than thinking: ''I have protection so I can afford to go to the trees!!'' Pull sequence and ability to fly canopy while you are under the WS takes longer time than in ''normal'' suit. never forget this. -------------------------------------- You try to prove you can out fly the fjord, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? -------------------------------------- -Don't count on protection in this case, Honestly , One have better chances to fly over those ''aim line'' if one has no protection under the suit. No doubt that armor ad complexity and restrictions to body and mind. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. -------------------------------------- -If the weather is crap ( esppecially if there is no visibility) - you do NOT jump. Do not count on protection there too. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. -------------------------------------- -Plan your hike to be there on time , and also make option in case you got late - do not count that protection will save you, your maturity will if there is any left. --------------------------------------- There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your amour, on all the jumps you don’t take your amour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want amour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. -------------------------------------- -I can write the book about this , and there will be 1000 different opinions anway, mostly it is personal choice , but basic is that each jumper must know what he has WS for! Fit of the suit is most important thing if the flyer has performance flying in mind. -In short - Armor is good for those who like it. Knee pads always , helmet always, even on WS jumps this does not harm performance but the rest of the armor sure does! My whole point is that above mentioned answer can clearly show that there is a more simple way to avoid troubleRobert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #21 March 7, 2007 I guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #22 March 7, 2007 QuoteI guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Thats not really what people are saying.. All they're saying it could potentialy ad more hassles to your jump then gain?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #23 March 7, 2007 i said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base?Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #24 March 7, 2007 Quotei said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base? Ok im sorry for that reply...it was a stupid reply,i see that now.. i just feel like most people give a shit about using protection only for getting a litle more performance or looking more cool..i dont know.... I know you are a wery experience flyer and you probably thinking different about this thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #25 March 7, 2007 use protection if you feel better w it, but never forget that right decision is the best protection. that was all about i want to emphasize. i am not using body armor but helmet always (did maybe 5 jumps without helmet in my entire BASE life) sometimes knee protection and good shoes too. enjoy ws flying and play smart and long. Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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HN1 0 #10 March 5, 2007 I was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. The way i look at it is the less weight you have on a canopy the more prone the end cells will be to not inflating which could create a twitcher opening. I think this effect would be multiplied on slider up jumps. Im just thinking this becasue i have jumped 370 sq ft canopys with an exit weight of around 210 lbs and most the time the end cells do not evenly pressurize. and i would think for wing suit base you would want a little heaver wing loading becasue of the horazantal openings. Tell me what you guys think. And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later RyanSkydiving is borring!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #11 March 5, 2007 ''horizontal'' opening does NOT effect the heading performance Ryan. It is relative wind to the canopy so canopy has no clue that you ( maybe ) moving forward, canopy just feel the air.W full armor your WS performance will be worse than without.Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #12 March 5, 2007 QuoteI was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. Yes. If I understand your question correctly, it's pretty off topic, but in brief: My experience has been that heading performance begins to degrade noticeably on slider down BASE canopies at wingloadings around .65 (unvented canopies) and .5 (vented canopies). I highly recommend bottom skin inlets if you are going to drop your loading below .65 or so, but then again, I'd pretty much recommend them for all slider down BASE. Note that my firsthand knowledge on this is all pretty much slider down, non-wingsuit. I've got no idea what happens when you throw that slider thingy around your lines. Robi is correct about the opening not really caring if it's horizontal or vertical. The opening just happens in the relative wind--which direction the relative wind is blowing through the opening is irrelevant (or rather, always the same, if you prefer).-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #13 March 5, 2007 QuoteRobi is correct about the opening not really caring if it's horizontal or vertical. The opening just happens in the relative wind--which direction the relative wind is blowing through the opening is irrelevant (or rather, always the same, if you prefer). Yes, but there is the "pendulum effect" which can be both disorienting and time-consuming, i.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #14 March 5, 2007 Quote Yes, but there is the "pendulum effect" which can be both disorienting and time-consuming, i.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase? 7 cells and lighter wing loading is the difference...it is harder to get line twists on these canopies. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #15 March 5, 2007 QuoteI was thinking about this and was wondering if anyone has looked into having worse heading performance by having an under weighted wing. The way i look at it is the less weight you have on a canopy the more prone the end cells will be to not inflating which could create a twitcher opening. I think this effect would be multiplied on slider up jumps. Im just thinking this becasue i have jumped 370 sq ft canopys with an exit weight of around 210 lbs and most the time the end cells do not evenly pressurize. and i would think for wing suit base you would want a little heaver wing loading becasue of the horazantal openings. Tell me what you guys think. And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later Ryan Are you serious?? getting out of the sport because i use bodyprotection... Do you think feks. freeskiiers are stupid because they use protection when they dropping cliffs..ore maybe motocrosspilots..i know how it is to lay at a hospital for 4weeks with almost every bone broken in my body..think alitle more outside the box before you post something stupid like this WTF... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #16 March 6, 2007 Quotei.e. if you have what would normally be a "slight off-heading", couldn't it turn into a "more than slight off-heading" if you stay unbalanced in the harness, during the pendulum phase? Normally, no. On a BASE canopy it's more likely that the canopy would maintain heading and you would spin underneath it. The majority of BASE line twists are caused by the motion of the jumpers body (spinning) under a steady (maintaining heading) canopy.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greeny 0 #17 March 6, 2007 My Skyflier- 3 was sized to accommodate a full set off dainesse armour (Pro Shuttle suit). Why should wingsuit BASE be any different, bad landing areas and object strikes are still all very available (depending on what and how you choose to fly) Yes if you always flight straight away from the wall and always pull high enough, you will more than likely have a good available landing area. But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? You try to prove you can out fly the fford, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your armour, on all the jumps you don’t take your armour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want armour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. All that said I have never jumped my full armour on a wind suit BASE jump, but there have been more than a few jumps where I have been regretting that decision right after opening. 180 Wingsuit skydives and 35 wingsuit BASE jumps in, I am very happy with the sizing of my suit. I have never been knowingly out flown just because my suit is a little baggy. The only time I found my armour helped by tightening my suit was on wingsuit speed dives (max vertical speed out of a plane) but maybe on those jumps I just found a slightly better body position. You do get funny looks putting it all on when it is 110 degrees at the DZ. If you size the suit and armour right you will not find you movements limited, if you practice your pulls / unzips you will find it takes no longer to do. There are jumpers out there who don’t helmets, because it doesn’t look / feel cool. Some of these jumpers have told me that if I feel I need all my armour I shouldn’t be jumping those objects. My answer “I want to jump those objects” My level of armour varies object dependent, but it is very nice to have it with you and be able to make that choice as you leave the car What is my point? If you want to jump your armour, then jump it. Have the courage to make you own decisions and do what you feel is right, what ever the herd says. Test jump your suit fully kitted and if you like the way it feels at the DZ then go fly. Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greeny 0 #18 March 7, 2007 Quote: [And as far as jumping with body armor i think if you need a full suit on every jump to feel confertable then maybe you should get out of the sport. And i think it would increase the danger with wingsuit base to add all that extra crap. but thats just my two cents, take it for what its worth. later Ryan] Ryan do yourself a favour sand save yourself the embarrassment of more people reading this. Remove you own post! Sorry you can't do that because we just quoted it for you!! opps. I like my full face, I am on my 3rd I broke my last 2 on lonly landing areas soloing in the dark. I like my back protectors walking away after landing flat on your back on rocks is a realy nice feeling. I like my knee pads, I have walked away on countless occasions with nothing more than holes in my trouses from steep rocky landing areas, hard landings on uphill roads, and the odd fountain. You can't back your canopy out from a wall you just hit if you are unconscious or your knees and elbows are brocken. But hay what do you care that is just my two cents, take it for what its worth Greeny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #19 March 7, 2007 QuoteMy Skyflier- 3 was sized to accommodate a full set off dainesse armour (Pro Shuttle suit). Why should wingsuit BASE be any different, bad landing areas and object strikes are still all very available (depending on what and how you choose to fly) Yes if you always flight straight away from the wall and always pull high enough, you will more than likely have a good available landing area. But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? You try to prove you can out fly the fford, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your armour, on all the jumps you don’t take your armour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want armour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. All that said I have never jumped my full armour on a wind suit BASE jump, but there have been more than a few jumps where I have been regretting that decision right after opening. 180 Wingsuit skydives and 35 wingsuit BASE jumps in, I am very happy with the sizing of my suit. I have never been knowingly out flown just because my suit is a little baggy. The only time I found my armour helped by tightening my suit was on wingsuit speed dives (max vertical speed out of a plane) but maybe on those jumps I just found a slightly better body position. You do get funny looks putting it all on when it is 110 degrees at the DZ. If you size the suit and armour right you will not find you movements limited, if you practice your pulls / unzips you will find it takes no longer to do. There are jumpers out there who don’t helmets, because it doesn’t look / feel cool. Some of these jumpers have told me that if I feel I need all my armour I shouldn’t be jumping those objects. My answer “I want to jump those objects” My level of armour varies object dependent, but it is very nice to have it with you and be able to make that choice as you leave the car What is my point? If you want to jump your armour, then jump it. Have the courage to make you own decisions and do what you feel is right, what ever the herd says. Test jump your suit fully kitted and if you like the way it feels at the DZ then go fly. Greeny Thank you for putting a better words on it than i do.. This is exactly what im thinking about..alright.. maybe i get a less "powerfull" flight with all this "crap" on me plus the big container on my back..but atleast i have a better chance to do the jump again if the shit hits the fan..this is what`s count for me..i don`t compromissed on safety..it will always comes first for me... Stay safe jump again tomorow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #20 March 7, 2007 ------------------------------------------ But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? ----------------------------------------- -If you worries about this than better avoid this wall and train till you get the performance and exit tuned 100%. the progress goes step by step and must be based on personal ability, not on a personal ''wish factor'' only!! ------------------------------------- You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? ------------------------------------- -Make decision on time is much smarter than thinking: ''I have protection so I can afford to go to the trees!!'' Pull sequence and ability to fly canopy while you are under the WS takes longer time than in ''normal'' suit. never forget this. -------------------------------------- You try to prove you can out fly the fjord, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? -------------------------------------- -Don't count on protection in this case, Honestly , One have better chances to fly over those ''aim line'' if one has no protection under the suit. No doubt that armor ad complexity and restrictions to body and mind. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. -------------------------------------- -If the weather is crap ( esppecially if there is no visibility) - you do NOT jump. Do not count on protection there too. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. -------------------------------------- -Plan your hike to be there on time , and also make option in case you got late - do not count that protection will save you, your maturity will if there is any left. --------------------------------------- There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your amour, on all the jumps you don’t take your amour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want amour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. -------------------------------------- -I can write the book about this , and there will be 1000 different opinions anway, mostly it is personal choice , but basic is that each jumper must know what he has WS for! Fit of the suit is most important thing if the flyer has performance flying in mind. -In short - Armor is good for those who like it. Knee pads always , helmet always, even on WS jumps this does not harm performance but the rest of the armor sure does! My whole point is that above mentioned answer can clearly show that there is a more simple way to avoid troubleRobert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #21 March 7, 2007 I guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #22 March 7, 2007 QuoteI guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Thats not really what people are saying.. All they're saying it could potentialy ad more hassles to your jump then gain?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #23 March 7, 2007 i said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base?Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites havensiangst 0 #24 March 7, 2007 Quotei said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base? Ok im sorry for that reply...it was a stupid reply,i see that now.. i just feel like most people give a shit about using protection only for getting a litle more performance or looking more cool..i dont know.... I know you are a wery experience flyer and you probably thinking different about this thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #25 March 7, 2007 use protection if you feel better w it, but never forget that right decision is the best protection. that was all about i want to emphasize. i am not using body armor but helmet always (did maybe 5 jumps without helmet in my entire BASE life) sometimes knee protection and good shoes too. enjoy ws flying and play smart and long. Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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robibird 2 #20 March 7, 2007 ------------------------------------------ But what if: You hug the wall and pull away too late never achieving good separation? ----------------------------------------- -If you worries about this than better avoid this wall and train till you get the performance and exit tuned 100%. the progress goes step by step and must be based on personal ability, not on a personal ''wish factor'' only!! ------------------------------------- You find you aren’t going to clear that ridge you aimed for; you pitch last second low over the trees? ------------------------------------- -Make decision on time is much smarter than thinking: ''I have protection so I can afford to go to the trees!!'' Pull sequence and ability to fly canopy while you are under the WS takes longer time than in ''normal'' suit. never forget this. -------------------------------------- You try to prove you can out fly the fjord, the lake, the fence line (whatever), you never quit get to your breaks before you land? -------------------------------------- -Don't count on protection in this case, Honestly , One have better chances to fly over those ''aim line'' if one has no protection under the suit. No doubt that armor ad complexity and restrictions to body and mind. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit point in the wind and rain, get line twists on opening and that big grassy landing area turns into car sized rocks. -------------------------------------- -If the weather is crap ( esppecially if there is no visibility) - you do NOT jump. Do not count on protection there too. -------------------------------------- You leave the exit on a dark moonless night, all the better for hiding from rangers (and you mate hiked too slow)? You can end up with some interesting landing choices. -------------------------------------- -Plan your hike to be there on time , and also make option in case you got late - do not count that protection will save you, your maturity will if there is any left. --------------------------------------- There is one other big advantage to sizing your suit to fit your amour, on all the jumps you don’t take your amour, it fits your warm gear and rain gear. Jumping big wall that gear is very nice to have. I have seen it take 6 hours for people to come down off the top of Norwegian objects when the cloud and rain came in. If you are going to wing suit base even if you don’t want amour seriously size your suit with all you outdoor gear on. -------------------------------------- -I can write the book about this , and there will be 1000 different opinions anway, mostly it is personal choice , but basic is that each jumper must know what he has WS for! Fit of the suit is most important thing if the flyer has performance flying in mind. -In short - Armor is good for those who like it. Knee pads always , helmet always, even on WS jumps this does not harm performance but the rest of the armor sure does! My whole point is that above mentioned answer can clearly show that there is a more simple way to avoid troubleRobert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #21 March 7, 2007 I guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #22 March 7, 2007 QuoteI guess your right...im gonna loose weight(skijumperstyle)180cm50kg...buying a Trango185 with a Hybrid L/D rigg..trow all my protection..including my helmet..shaving my hair..all this for getting a tiny better flyingperformance.. Protection is stupid..... Thats not really what people are saying.. All they're saying it could potentialy ad more hassles to your jump then gain?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #23 March 7, 2007 i said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base?Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
havensiangst 0 #24 March 7, 2007 Quotei said what you can read. nothing more or less. haven't been rude to you nor that was my intention. i don't see why you feel the need to replay in the way you did... there is many ways to jump safe. if you feel better w protection - go for it. i never said you shouldn't. what i said is that some statements above are twisted and not really good sample why would be good to jump w protection. at the end it is up to you. what about AAD for base? Ok im sorry for that reply...it was a stupid reply,i see that now.. i just feel like most people give a shit about using protection only for getting a litle more performance or looking more cool..i dont know.... I know you are a wery experience flyer and you probably thinking different about this thing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #25 March 7, 2007 use protection if you feel better w it, but never forget that right decision is the best protection. that was all about i want to emphasize. i am not using body armor but helmet always (did maybe 5 jumps without helmet in my entire BASE life) sometimes knee protection and good shoes too. enjoy ws flying and play smart and long. Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
