KrisFlyZ 0 #1 January 25, 2007 Rank the following features(to have) by order of importance(for a given pilot) for the suit to perform at its best. Because we cannot have a weighted poll, I have disabled multiple answers. Assume that the pilot is using this for max glide flights for 45 sec flights. BASE or Balloon or Heli. Please keep the discussion manufacturer independent if possible. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #2 January 26, 2007 Dude, those selections are obtuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #3 January 26, 2007 IMO, best feature is the one that causes most of the 'turning' of the fluid flow, so I went with shape. "birds can climb without flapping their wings, but we're not quite there yet" from SoulFlyers 2. "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badenhop 0 #4 January 26, 2007 Poll makes no sense. Just put on the suit, fly.================================== I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton http://www.AveryBadenhop.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghetto 0 #5 January 26, 2007 Avery, what are you talking about!? Without previously calculating the cube root of the air density multiplied by the hex value of the pinkness of your suit, how can you possibly determine the optimal facial muscle tension to produce the biggest grin? Sheesh.... you just don't know what the fuck your talking about, do you...Web Design Cleveland Skydiving "Hey, these cookies don't taste anything like girl scouts..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #6 January 26, 2007 QuoteAvery, what are you talking about!? Without previously calculating the cube root of the air density multiplied by the hex value of the pinkness of your suit, how can you possibly determine the optimal facial muscle tension to produce the biggest grin? Sheesh.... you just don't know what the fuck your talking about, do you... I think the cube root of his pinkness makes his facial tissue constrict to a value equal to his enjoyment of life, therefore causing his incisors and canines to be shown to the air that passes beneath him..... Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #7 January 26, 2007 Possibly the oddest poll ever. Come on, Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #8 January 26, 2007 Like any poll the results give an indication of what people think. This poll is no different. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #9 January 26, 2007 Quote Dude, those selections are obtuse. What whould have been good selections? Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Macthe 0 #10 January 26, 2007 QuoteQuote Dude, those selections are obtuse. What whould have been good selections? a good suit is magic, not for the likes of us mere mortals to try to understand, the airfoil, the plane form, the balance and inflation surly must be designed then tested and tweaked over and over, in each of the models a company makes, Then.......... possibly the hardest part will be to make that same suit with all the same flying characteristics for all the different height weight combinations a manufacture is presented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #11 January 26, 2007 Skill... Check Loic's results in Stupino. And he flies with what is considered the slowest floatiest less performing suit.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #12 January 26, 2007 QuoteSkill... Check Loic's results in Stupino. And he flies with what is considered the slowest floatiest less performing suit. Definately Loic's skill is way more than normal. But you think he can Glide the same if he was say 5 inches shorter and 10kgs heavier? Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #13 January 26, 2007 who cares, it's the skills. He still smokes people with same size and weight and "faster better" suits.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #14 January 26, 2007 In my opinion, all those facts what K.K. has placed are important. You can not say that A car is better just because has better engine than B car! There is way more factors which play. However, the fact which play huge roll in WS flying in determination of best: fly / glide/ hang...etc is the pilot fatigue. There is no doubt that good and trained and skilled pilot in slower and older toy will ''shoot down'' the weak pilot in fast and newest toy. In example, when the track pants came out the new line of performance were established, but this does not mean that Tracking is now simple... U put the pants on and you track like hell and ''out fly'' all others in older models... Training and understanding is mandatory.... to train how to use it. Shortcuts does not helps here. Same goes to WS. In the future the steps between two models will be smaller and smaller but to get this performance out from the suit will require more training too.. Frustrating... , I know, but isn't this one of the reason why we all like to jump?! Progress!! My personal experience here show me that I am able to hold so called 100% of performance for about 50sec maybe 60 sec, after that it drops down to 80-90% for another 30 sec. after... well I start to fail in performance. Stronger ( younger ) people w good natural strength and elasticity can do better than those like me. Luckily usually 60-90 sec is good enough time for BASE play ground so I am not unhappy w my performance!! With knowing that fact, we need to be honest and find the optimal flying time to ensure to give pilots/jumpers equal conditions. Would this be 30 sec or one minute or jump from the 7000f or lower it is up to us. My point is that flying for 2 min is far more up to pilot fatigue than flying skirt.Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #15 January 26, 2007 QuoteMy point is that flying for 2 min is far more up to pilot fatigue than flying skirt. A question I had...I I think you're the guy to ask Robi, is whats the best avg glide thats been recorded/measured so far? As most often, we see stats from skydives, and its 2 minute+ jumps, where fatige is influencing the performance quite a lot.. On shorter base-flights? whats the best performance in terms of glideratios that people have been getting?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #16 January 26, 2007 Jarno, Yuri K. and french Jean Noel has as far as I know by far the best record of those infos. As well Martin Rosen from Sweden was playing a lot w GR/GPS before. Best average is around 2.3 and best glide was going up to 3 on some parts of the jumps. All flights were mostly no longer than 1' to 1'20'' I was playing recently on ITW diving down to sun plate edge and w accomulated speed was able to hit the road easy and open around 150m. Glide after I flat it out was constantly over 3Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #17 January 26, 2007 QuoteBest average is around 2.3 and best glide was going up to 3 on some parts of the jumps. Doug said that Yuri was opening on top of the 'white house' on jumps from Smell. He also said opening height was comfortably high. The distance is 2km and even if we consider high as 'only' 160m(assuming Smell is 960m high). The average glide is 2.5. This is what Yuri himself posted last year in the Vampire Chronicles thread(2.5+). Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #18 January 26, 2007 Quotewho cares, it's the skills. He still smokes people with same size and weight and "faster better" suits. Yeah, I know run what you brung. Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of Loic's flying. But please show me another skydiver that is built like Loic. I would very much like to see that. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites robibird 2 #19 January 26, 2007 Yuri's smell flight - true, there is a moment were all ''klick'' on the flight and you get something which is hard to repeat. Unfortunately that one flight can not be taken as an average flight even though I would be first one who would be more than happy to take this as a pure fact how V suit flies. Martin has made such flights , James , Jean Noel.... many guys has made some incredible flights. my 2.3 is more as an AVERAGE, so as something you can take in surviving calculation when exporing the possible cliffs... Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #20 January 26, 2007 QuoteDefinately Loic's skill is way more than normal. But you think he can Glide the same if he was say 5 inches shorter and 10kgs heavier? Actually, increasing weight does not affect glide at all in traditional glider dynamics. And I am curious if taller is really better either, as everyone assumes? I have been on some tracking dives with short light people who can push forward amazingly hard. If we are like wings, we have a very stupid aspect ratio of less than 1 (our entire body considered as one wing). Why then would being a few inches shorter be worse? You're just increasing the aspect ratio, which in any other winged discipline helps glide.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #21 January 26, 2007 Tracking ======= In tracking skill weighs in much more(because the efficiency is so low)...the size of the rig is a huge factor. Search up HooknSwoop's post on tracking. A thinner rig is a huge factor. Skill indirectly translates to a smaller rig in tracking. Most brilliant trackers are people with thousands of jumps and tiny rigs. Now give them a Mirage M4 with a 176/170 and compare their performance vs themselves flying the smaller rig. Wingsuit ======= Come on Matt. You know better than that. 10 kg heavier person is a thicker air foil. Shorter increases Aspect ratio by how much? A few hundredths. Aspect Ratio ========= This is Square(span )/ Wingsuit Total area. Don't calculate as Span / Chord. Aspect ratio if you want to get technical(in a wingsuit position for a given height) depends on Inseam to Torso distribution. Long torso for same available height is a worse aspect ratio in the wingsuit flying position. I calculated this in a spread sheet(if I remember correctly) 4 inch longer legs(normal is 42) at 61 inch suit length meant a 2 percent increase in aspect ratio. Does that even matter? Area of the shorter person is much smaller(in a relative sense). How much does 4 inch reduction in height reduce the wing area by? 4 inch reduction in inseam(36 inches to 32 inches) will reduce leg wing area by 25%(assuming a constant 58 degree angle for the leg wing across sizes). Also 5 inches shorter is 5X shoulder measurement less area. ===================================== Anyway, increased span is only additional drag in Wingsuit flight. In flocks, the additional area The wings of current wingsuits are flown with the arms significantly in (or span reduced) in order for the wing to not deform. ===================================== After all this conjecture we have two facts. a) Yuri is among the top few WS pilots for glide. He says himself that he is not the best build for WS flying. Skill is a big factor. He is also superstong so strength is a big factor. b) I flew back from Smell (in the Phantom) and pitched over ground. That is a 2+ average glide. Am I that skilled(300 ish WS jumps of which 200 jumps were for time or flocking and 15 WS BASE jumps at that point)? Or is build an advantage? Just so this isn't misinterpreted. The point of a) and b) is....without argument skill is important but don't discount the advantage of a proper build either. Kris. Edited to all link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dploi 0 #22 January 26, 2007 I went with skill. I loves me a skilled wingsuit. Like a wingsuit that's really good at pool that I can take to poolhalls and shark people out of beers and cash. 'Cause, man... who wouldn't think they could beat a suit at pool? I asked you a question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #23 January 26, 2007 Haha, I caught that too. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KrisFlyZ 0 #24 January 26, 2007 QuoteHaha, I caught that too. So did I when I posted the pool . Left it as it was anyway. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #25 January 26, 2007 Quote[Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of Loic's flying. But please show me another skydiver that is built like Loic. I would very much like to see that. Don't get me either, Loic is not "THE ONLY ONE"... Lots of very talented, supernatural pilots around (several anyways)... Take Cathy for example, Loic's wife, she can smoke a lot of people too with her "potatobag" wingsuit... And she has NOT the same size and shape as Loic... It's more about the training you have, and the feeling you have flying your suit. And a skilled suit too I wish I had a biplane wingsuit, just like an AN-2 scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
piisfish 135 #11 January 26, 2007 Skill... Check Loic's results in Stupino. And he flies with what is considered the slowest floatiest less performing suit.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #12 January 26, 2007 QuoteSkill... Check Loic's results in Stupino. And he flies with what is considered the slowest floatiest less performing suit. Definately Loic's skill is way more than normal. But you think he can Glide the same if he was say 5 inches shorter and 10kgs heavier? Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #13 January 26, 2007 who cares, it's the skills. He still smokes people with same size and weight and "faster better" suits.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #14 January 26, 2007 In my opinion, all those facts what K.K. has placed are important. You can not say that A car is better just because has better engine than B car! There is way more factors which play. However, the fact which play huge roll in WS flying in determination of best: fly / glide/ hang...etc is the pilot fatigue. There is no doubt that good and trained and skilled pilot in slower and older toy will ''shoot down'' the weak pilot in fast and newest toy. In example, when the track pants came out the new line of performance were established, but this does not mean that Tracking is now simple... U put the pants on and you track like hell and ''out fly'' all others in older models... Training and understanding is mandatory.... to train how to use it. Shortcuts does not helps here. Same goes to WS. In the future the steps between two models will be smaller and smaller but to get this performance out from the suit will require more training too.. Frustrating... , I know, but isn't this one of the reason why we all like to jump?! Progress!! My personal experience here show me that I am able to hold so called 100% of performance for about 50sec maybe 60 sec, after that it drops down to 80-90% for another 30 sec. after... well I start to fail in performance. Stronger ( younger ) people w good natural strength and elasticity can do better than those like me. Luckily usually 60-90 sec is good enough time for BASE play ground so I am not unhappy w my performance!! With knowing that fact, we need to be honest and find the optimal flying time to ensure to give pilots/jumpers equal conditions. Would this be 30 sec or one minute or jump from the 7000f or lower it is up to us. My point is that flying for 2 min is far more up to pilot fatigue than flying skirt.Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #15 January 26, 2007 QuoteMy point is that flying for 2 min is far more up to pilot fatigue than flying skirt. A question I had...I I think you're the guy to ask Robi, is whats the best avg glide thats been recorded/measured so far? As most often, we see stats from skydives, and its 2 minute+ jumps, where fatige is influencing the performance quite a lot.. On shorter base-flights? whats the best performance in terms of glideratios that people have been getting?JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #16 January 26, 2007 Jarno, Yuri K. and french Jean Noel has as far as I know by far the best record of those infos. As well Martin Rosen from Sweden was playing a lot w GR/GPS before. Best average is around 2.3 and best glide was going up to 3 on some parts of the jumps. All flights were mostly no longer than 1' to 1'20'' I was playing recently on ITW diving down to sun plate edge and w accomulated speed was able to hit the road easy and open around 150m. Glide after I flat it out was constantly over 3Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #17 January 26, 2007 QuoteBest average is around 2.3 and best glide was going up to 3 on some parts of the jumps. Doug said that Yuri was opening on top of the 'white house' on jumps from Smell. He also said opening height was comfortably high. The distance is 2km and even if we consider high as 'only' 160m(assuming Smell is 960m high). The average glide is 2.5. This is what Yuri himself posted last year in the Vampire Chronicles thread(2.5+). Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #18 January 26, 2007 Quotewho cares, it's the skills. He still smokes people with same size and weight and "faster better" suits. Yeah, I know run what you brung. Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of Loic's flying. But please show me another skydiver that is built like Loic. I would very much like to see that. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robibird 2 #19 January 26, 2007 Yuri's smell flight - true, there is a moment were all ''klick'' on the flight and you get something which is hard to repeat. Unfortunately that one flight can not be taken as an average flight even though I would be first one who would be more than happy to take this as a pure fact how V suit flies. Martin has made such flights , James , Jean Noel.... many guys has made some incredible flights. my 2.3 is more as an AVERAGE, so as something you can take in surviving calculation when exporing the possible cliffs... Robert Pecnik [email protected] www.phoenix-fly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #20 January 26, 2007 QuoteDefinately Loic's skill is way more than normal. But you think he can Glide the same if he was say 5 inches shorter and 10kgs heavier? Actually, increasing weight does not affect glide at all in traditional glider dynamics. And I am curious if taller is really better either, as everyone assumes? I have been on some tracking dives with short light people who can push forward amazingly hard. If we are like wings, we have a very stupid aspect ratio of less than 1 (our entire body considered as one wing). Why then would being a few inches shorter be worse? You're just increasing the aspect ratio, which in any other winged discipline helps glide.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #21 January 26, 2007 Tracking ======= In tracking skill weighs in much more(because the efficiency is so low)...the size of the rig is a huge factor. Search up HooknSwoop's post on tracking. A thinner rig is a huge factor. Skill indirectly translates to a smaller rig in tracking. Most brilliant trackers are people with thousands of jumps and tiny rigs. Now give them a Mirage M4 with a 176/170 and compare their performance vs themselves flying the smaller rig. Wingsuit ======= Come on Matt. You know better than that. 10 kg heavier person is a thicker air foil. Shorter increases Aspect ratio by how much? A few hundredths. Aspect Ratio ========= This is Square(span )/ Wingsuit Total area. Don't calculate as Span / Chord. Aspect ratio if you want to get technical(in a wingsuit position for a given height) depends on Inseam to Torso distribution. Long torso for same available height is a worse aspect ratio in the wingsuit flying position. I calculated this in a spread sheet(if I remember correctly) 4 inch longer legs(normal is 42) at 61 inch suit length meant a 2 percent increase in aspect ratio. Does that even matter? Area of the shorter person is much smaller(in a relative sense). How much does 4 inch reduction in height reduce the wing area by? 4 inch reduction in inseam(36 inches to 32 inches) will reduce leg wing area by 25%(assuming a constant 58 degree angle for the leg wing across sizes). Also 5 inches shorter is 5X shoulder measurement less area. ===================================== Anyway, increased span is only additional drag in Wingsuit flight. In flocks, the additional area The wings of current wingsuits are flown with the arms significantly in (or span reduced) in order for the wing to not deform. ===================================== After all this conjecture we have two facts. a) Yuri is among the top few WS pilots for glide. He says himself that he is not the best build for WS flying. Skill is a big factor. He is also superstong so strength is a big factor. b) I flew back from Smell (in the Phantom) and pitched over ground. That is a 2+ average glide. Am I that skilled(300 ish WS jumps of which 200 jumps were for time or flocking and 15 WS BASE jumps at that point)? Or is build an advantage? Just so this isn't misinterpreted. The point of a) and b) is....without argument skill is important but don't discount the advantage of a proper build either. Kris. Edited to all link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dploi 0 #22 January 26, 2007 I went with skill. I loves me a skilled wingsuit. Like a wingsuit that's really good at pool that I can take to poolhalls and shark people out of beers and cash. 'Cause, man... who wouldn't think they could beat a suit at pool? I asked you a question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #23 January 26, 2007 Haha, I caught that too. www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #24 January 26, 2007 QuoteHaha, I caught that too. So did I when I posted the pool . Left it as it was anyway. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #25 January 26, 2007 Quote[Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of Loic's flying. But please show me another skydiver that is built like Loic. I would very much like to see that. Don't get me either, Loic is not "THE ONLY ONE"... Lots of very talented, supernatural pilots around (several anyways)... Take Cathy for example, Loic's wife, she can smoke a lot of people too with her "potatobag" wingsuit... And she has NOT the same size and shape as Loic... It's more about the training you have, and the feeling you have flying your suit. And a skilled suit too I wish I had a biplane wingsuit, just like an AN-2 scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
