An aircraft designer has a degree of freedom that we don't. We can't control the weight distribution in our bodies.
BTW, when flying certain gliders (such as the Schweizer 2-33) solo, you HAVE to add weights to keep it in trim.
BTW, when flying certain gliders (such as the Schweizer 2-33) solo, you HAVE to add weights to keep it in trim.
I've got more than a few hours in the Schweizer 2-33 and am aware of the added weight when solo. I realize there are exceptions however rare. But you know if the man could have rigged it without the weight he would have.
Do you know any designer that just sets out to add weight before an exhaustive trial using other means for balance?
I actually feel out of balance with too many cameras on my helmet. Flying is best with a clean noggin.
kallend 1,623
Quote
An aircraft designer has a degree of freedom that we don't. We can't control the weight distribution in our bodies.
BTW, when flying certain gliders (such as the Schweizer 2-33) solo, you HAVE to add weights to keep it in trim.
I've got more than a few hours in the Schweizer 2-33 and am aware of the added weight when solo. I realize there are exceptions however rare. But you know if the man could have rigged it without the weight he would have.
Do you know any designer that just sets out to add weight before an exhaustive trial using other means for balance?
I actually feel out of balance with too many cameras on my helmet. Flying is best with a clean noggin.
So you have bought a wingsuit and you determine that it is not in perfect trim for optimum performance. Is it better to (a) add weight to correct the trim? or (b) adjust to a sub-optimal body position to correct the trim? or (c) just fly it out of trim?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
So you have bought a wingsuit and you determine that it is not in perfect trim for optimum performance. Is it better to (a) add weight to correct the trim? or (b) adjust to a sub-optimal body position to correct the trim? or (c) just fly it out of trim?
To change trim (d) change body for optimal trim. We have a lot of control of the angle of incidence on our wings that rigid craft don't have. We can do that unless we run out of pitch authority and I don't believe any of the wingsuits have this problem.
In the case of the Ballast in the Sailplane when flown solo, I'm pretty sure it to keep it from being loaded well beyond its aft most center of balance were it does not have enough pitch authority to recover and stall/spins/crashes.
Yo!
Made a few more flights today with my ghetto V-2. I mean, look at this shit!!! (***pics Not Safe For Work!***)
Used a piece of a bicycle inner tube taped inside the wing to form a better leading edge. The performance is noticeably better. The balance is just about perfect, no weights needed anymore. The jury is still out on whether the wing is inflated properly, the flights with Gatorade Inlets™® and without them felt about the same, wing looked about the same. They were positioned poorly though. Further experiments with better designed inlets will show.
To answer some questions...
- Scott: 15lbs weight is total, for both legs. Having 7-8lbs on each leg makes legs pretty numb on landing.
- Fabien: animal balloons proved to be impractical, they blow up too easily. Inner tube is much better. So I posted pictures of better balloons.
- Pendragon: chest strap is tight, the vents are well outside the harness. In fact, too much outside, so tension creates wrinkles in the vent area; this poor fit is probably the reason they don't work properly.
- Robi: weights are only a research tool. They are the cleanest way to change the pitch angle without changing the shape of the suit or body position. Once the sweet spot is found and its pitch angle and horizontal and vertical speeds are "memorized", the next step is to try to achieve the same balance aerodynamically, by adjusting the lift from arm and leg wings. One way to do it is to degrade one of the wings (e.g., reduce the pressure and partially collapse the leg wing in order to increase the pitch to more head-high). The overall result in this case depends on whether the improvement from the better AoA outweighs the decreased quality of the wing. The better way is to achieve better balance by improving the quality of the affected wing. Just like the better leading edge did.
It would be awesome to see inflatable pouches in arm and leg wings to morph the wing profile and even size&shape in the future versions of your high-performance suits! So that the flyers can fine-tune their balance with a little pump (included).
So let the high-performance WS Revolution begin!!! Here are my goals for 2007:
- build a system (called PFM System, PFM for Pure Fucking Magic ) to accurately measure L/D (acceleration-corrected) and horizontal/vertical speeds (true airspeed - wind and thermals independent) in real time. You will hear in the earphone a sexy voice, "2.4.... c'mon, fucker, you can do better! your horizontal speed is only 90mph, increase it to your sweet spot of 115mph.... 3.0... good boy! 4.0... Are you Maggot?!"
- measure the V-2's (with modifications) polar curve by varying the pitch angle using weights, find the sweet spot. Draw the coefficients of lift and drag as functions of AoA. These curves are golden, they will provide a lot of insight!
- enhance V-2 with better profiled arm wings, inlets. Possibly move the leading edge of the leg wing down, to where the mylar ribs start (about knee level), to form a wider, better profiled, "stand-alone" wing. Experiment with removing the back deflector altogether, it may have a negative influence on the stand-alone legwing.
- by enhancing the suit, balancing it and flying with real-time feedback system, achieve instant and precise muscle memory for stable L/D = 3.0 flights 95% of the time.
- share my results with others
Wake up, everybody! Together we can make some amazing things! Think, invent, experiment, fly, share, repeat.
Yuri
Made a few more flights today with my ghetto V-2. I mean, look at this shit!!! (***pics Not Safe For Work!***)
Used a piece of a bicycle inner tube taped inside the wing to form a better leading edge. The performance is noticeably better. The balance is just about perfect, no weights needed anymore. The jury is still out on whether the wing is inflated properly, the flights with Gatorade Inlets™® and without them felt about the same, wing looked about the same. They were positioned poorly though. Further experiments with better designed inlets will show.
To answer some questions...
- Scott: 15lbs weight is total, for both legs. Having 7-8lbs on each leg makes legs pretty numb on landing.
- Fabien: animal balloons proved to be impractical, they blow up too easily. Inner tube is much better. So I posted pictures of better balloons.
- Pendragon: chest strap is tight, the vents are well outside the harness. In fact, too much outside, so tension creates wrinkles in the vent area; this poor fit is probably the reason they don't work properly.
- Robi: weights are only a research tool. They are the cleanest way to change the pitch angle without changing the shape of the suit or body position. Once the sweet spot is found and its pitch angle and horizontal and vertical speeds are "memorized", the next step is to try to achieve the same balance aerodynamically, by adjusting the lift from arm and leg wings. One way to do it is to degrade one of the wings (e.g., reduce the pressure and partially collapse the leg wing in order to increase the pitch to more head-high). The overall result in this case depends on whether the improvement from the better AoA outweighs the decreased quality of the wing. The better way is to achieve better balance by improving the quality of the affected wing. Just like the better leading edge did.
It would be awesome to see inflatable pouches in arm and leg wings to morph the wing profile and even size&shape in the future versions of your high-performance suits! So that the flyers can fine-tune their balance with a little pump (included).
So let the high-performance WS Revolution begin!!! Here are my goals for 2007:
- build a system (called PFM System, PFM for Pure Fucking Magic ) to accurately measure L/D (acceleration-corrected) and horizontal/vertical speeds (true airspeed - wind and thermals independent) in real time. You will hear in the earphone a sexy voice, "2.4.... c'mon, fucker, you can do better! your horizontal speed is only 90mph, increase it to your sweet spot of 115mph.... 3.0... good boy! 4.0... Are you Maggot?!"
- measure the V-2's (with modifications) polar curve by varying the pitch angle using weights, find the sweet spot. Draw the coefficients of lift and drag as functions of AoA. These curves are golden, they will provide a lot of insight!
- enhance V-2 with better profiled arm wings, inlets. Possibly move the leading edge of the leg wing down, to where the mylar ribs start (about knee level), to form a wider, better profiled, "stand-alone" wing. Experiment with removing the back deflector altogether, it may have a negative influence on the stand-alone legwing.
- by enhancing the suit, balancing it and flying with real-time feedback system, achieve instant and precise muscle memory for stable L/D = 3.0 flights 95% of the time.
- share my results with others
Wake up, everybody! Together we can make some amazing things! Think, invent, experiment, fly, share, repeat.
Yuri
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio
tr027 0
Wow! Outstanding, magnificent work! The photographs reveal the skill and craftsmanship as well as pure artistic talent that you have put into the suit modifications. Well done, A+!
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957
decwa 0
OK, cat's out of the bag on this one! Here's a pic of a more refined version. Note the white strap is wide velcro, inner tube is sealed on the ends with one fold and contact cemented inside and out...let the aerodynamic discussions begin!
Things to consider if anyone tries this - on climb to altitude, pressure outside decreases and inside the inner tube stays the same, hence it increases in volume (more pressure in your arm wing). At altitude I stand in the plane with my arms straight out in flight mode starting at around 10k.
Second caution, on deployment arms have some small pressure due to the inner tubes so pull high on the first flight test.
Sorry no models for the back drop!
Long flights!
Things to consider if anyone tries this - on climb to altitude, pressure outside decreases and inside the inner tube stays the same, hence it increases in volume (more pressure in your arm wing). At altitude I stand in the plane with my arms straight out in flight mode starting at around 10k.
Second caution, on deployment arms have some small pressure due to the inner tubes so pull high on the first flight test.
Sorry no models for the back drop!
Long flights!
Just a quick note here. I made several jumps with Yuri when he was tinkering with his weights and I while he did pull away horizontally from me towards the end of the skydives, he was also dropping out. I was able, in my S6 to catch up to him after he pulled far below me, then (from hundreds of feet higher) rip a 180, swoop him under canopy, then fly another twenty seconds before I pulled.
If it's a race to get a certain distance away from your exit point, then I guess he wins. That said, I could have gotten much farther away by the same pull altitude in my suit. Actually, either of my suits. Yuri is a much bigger guy than me though. Moose, in Scotty's V2 and as compared to Yuri, seems to have more vertical range. I think it's his Swedish body type. You know, long torso and lighter weight.
I did not jump with Yuri after he "fixed" his vents. He did solos on all of those jumps and the rest of us were flocking, so I have no report as to how those jumps went for him. One thing I can tell you for sure though: you would never catch me jumping leg weights like he was doing. You ought not have to do such things just to get a suit to fly comfortably.
Chuck
If it's a race to get a certain distance away from your exit point, then I guess he wins. That said, I could have gotten much farther away by the same pull altitude in my suit. Actually, either of my suits. Yuri is a much bigger guy than me though. Moose, in Scotty's V2 and as compared to Yuri, seems to have more vertical range. I think it's his Swedish body type. You know, long torso and lighter weight.
I did not jump with Yuri after he "fixed" his vents. He did solos on all of those jumps and the rest of us were flocking, so I have no report as to how those jumps went for him. One thing I can tell you for sure though: you would never catch me jumping leg weights like he was doing. You ought not have to do such things just to get a suit to fly comfortably.
Chuck
Chuck, that was a flight with a total of 15-18lbs. on my legs (Hanwags + 2 ankle weights 5lbs each). Total exit weight was ~275lbs. This flight was stally, unstable, and with poor glide ratio. I then started reducing weights and that's how I found the sweet spot for my particular suit and body type: Hanwags + 2.5lbs per leg. In this configuration I was able to fly at a glide ratio that visually eclipsed anything that I've ever had before, including planeouts with Phantom at 2.9.
Changing the leading edge with tubes eliminated the need for weights.
You should have jumped with me on one of those optimized flights!
Changing the leading edge with tubes eliminated the need for weights.
You should have jumped with me on one of those optimized flights!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio
TomAiello 25
I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that the primary difference between you and Yuri (that's Yuri A, not Yuri K) is not suit, or weights, or even body type, but overall wingsuit skill level. To say that you could smoke a particular person in whatever suit/configuration doesn't really show anything, simply because you could smoke almost anyone in any suit/configuration.
Macthe 0
Uh Uh, the Mach 1 cant be beat, Jeff N showed Chuck that on a few occasion's and the plum Nebula will be tough to beat, the race will be between the Mach1 and the new Nebula I think
tr027 0
Nuh Uh!!! oh yea?! Well my dad can beat up your dad!
My big wheel scooter is faster than yours!!
A bit more seriously though, so that this post has something to do with the topic instead of just being a thread drifter... : It would be good to have a couple other birds (1 from each manufacturer perhaps or people that flew with him before the mods) go flying with Yuri and his latest developments to see if he's changed the suit at all.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957
Jeff does have tremendous range in his Mach1, but he is also two inches taller than me and possibly five pounds lighter. I will also say that Jeff has more time backflying than most other people have on their belly in a wingsuit. There have been a total of zero other people who have flown that suit that have gotten away from me. There have been a ton of people here try though.....I might end up with one just for shits and grins, but at this point I think my first Tony wingsuit will be the Aerobat.
Chuck
Chuck
Martini 0
Why use an inflatable tube which isn't pressure stable when a foam noodle would seem to work just as well without changing shape at altitude? Also a foam insert could be carved to a complex shape easily. I'm impressed that a seemingly small change in leading edge shape gives such dramatic results. I've been considering adding a triangular trailing edge to the arm wings to slightly increase surface area particularly near the body where it won't cause much arm strain and where the airflow is already dirty.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............
No aircraft designer adds weight to their design, which adds nothing for performance, before trying to better balance the existing weight in the design to keep it light weight and balanced. Keeping the weight ( and drag ) down is free performance.
Move your cameras down to your ankles if your too front heavy.
An aircraft designer has a degree of freedom that we don't. We can't control the weight distribution in our bodies.
BTW, when flying certain gliders (such as the Schweizer 2-33) solo, you HAVE to add weights to keep it in trim.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.